News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
It'll be interesting to see what THEA attendance reports say for this past year as VB was very busy and Disney's water parks are in this eternal open/close situation.
I'm very curious to know what Disney's thought process is on running their water parks these days.

I agree that there is a lot of exaggeration when it comes to Epic's impact on WDW... but there is definitely concern over Universal taking a day from a lesser desired park like DAK. 3 Universal dry parks is more than enough to convince a family to outright skip WDW if they prefer.

MK will still be "king" in Orlando... but all the other Orlando parks will be fighting against each other. The one thing I'm interested in knowing is how Epic impacts Universal Studios' impact itself as it will then become the least desirable park of the 3. Will people "add" a day for Epic or just replace USF?
Definitely agree, and the idea that they want to get moving on DAK and taking Dinoland offline as the next year or two are potentially going to be rough attendance-wise for the park either way makes sense.

In general, I am also very curious to see just how Epic Universe changes attendance patterns across both resorts. There are a lot of different ways this could go, ranging from WDW feeling a noticeable hit to the market growing and attendance across the Universal parks changing more notably than attendance across the two resorts. I also wonder a little whether Universal has been finding its own audience rather than necessarily fighting over the same audience as Disney. Obviously there's significant overlap, but it wouldn't surprise me if over the past decade or so both resorts have increasingly carved out their own niche of consumers who prefer what each resort does best as the Orlando theme park market has continued to grow.

Maybe. What I do know is those triangles could blow away if not properly adhered to the structure.
I see he's at it again over (unfinished) work that apparently doesn't reach the heights of WDSP Toy Story Land.
 

Centauri Space Station

Well-Known Member
Wait time is not demand.

Wait time is a reflection of demand and capacity.

Test track has a very poor capacity. Coupled with Lightning Lane and single rider, the hourly capacity dedicated to Standby is likely in the low hundreds, which might make it worse than any other E-ticket at Disney.
It’s my favorite ride in the world currently and fits Epcot perfectly
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Missed my point.

Per the Hourly Capacity resource from @MisterPenguin the Theoretical Hourly capacity of Test Trak is 1200 guests an hour according to the Hidden Magic category.

The Operational Hourly Capacity is 1,080 guests an hour. So while theoretically, Test Track can handle 1200 guests an hour, in reality, it's only getting about 1,080 guests an hour.

If we assume Genie+ allocates half the real-world throughput to Lighting Lane, that's 540 guests an hour that can experience the attraction using Lightning Lane. Because Lightning Lane always takes priority (they will dump the queue and go to an absurd ratio if it gets too long) and has a fixed distribution, we can take out the 540 from the total 1,080 guests riding an hour.

This leaves another 540 guests riding.

These 540 guests will be a mix of both single-rider and standby, whereas the original 540 was only Lightning Lane.

Assume 90 single-rider guests ride per hour (one per two vehicle dispatches on average), which leaves 450 standby guests to ride. In my experience at Test Track, 90 single-riders seems like a low estimate.

Alternatively, if we did not have a single-rider line, the total number of guests riding per hour would be 990 guests. As you can see, single-rider increases the operational capacity of the attraction.

That said, if we assume the same Genie+ Lightning Lane ratio where half the capacity goes to Lightning Lane (usually it's more than half), then 495 Lightning Lane guests can ride per hour and 495 Standby guests can ride per hour.

So assuming a ride like Test Track and Frozen have the exact same throughput (most the data online estimating capacity comes from someone standing at the exit and counting people) Frozen's standby would have a higher hourly throughput when compared to Test Track if they are running the same ratio.

I'm not advocating for the removal of single-rider, but simply explaining a component of Test Track's (undeserved, imho) high waits. A counter-point could be that the single rider is removing guests from the stand-by line, but, personally, I have never even gone through Test Tracks single rider line since it's never short enough for the experience. Without the single-rider line, I simply wouldn't ride Test Track unless I had a Lighting Lane. Even if we assume 100% of singles would've gone in Standby, that would just return it to normal throughput split.

My whole point is that the way we look at capacity (total attraction throughput) and the likely way Disney looks at attraction throughput (total attraction throughput) does not account for single-rider before determining their Lightning Lane distribution, hence shrinking the pie for Standby throughput.

Once again, it's awesome that they have single-rider at Test Track, but the attraction's overall horrid capacity, likely ILL ratios, and single-rider component, means that the normal standby line has a very low throughput, contributing to high waits.
Disney counts how many guests are in each queue. They know what percentage of throughput is single riders. The whole reason an attraction can open with space dedicated for a single rider queue is because that information is known and it can be determined whether or not one will be with the expense.

You can’t compare an attraction without a single rider queue to one with a single rider queue. They wouldn’t be hitting the same numbers if they both lacked the single rider queue.
 

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
I'll need to see them in person. I can't say I'm all that wowed right now. But, we'll see. Don't get me wrong. It's nice, but it's just kind of a vertical lighting package. (It also feels a bit disjointed from the open air of Connections/Creations, the natural aspects of the Gardens. And, I think this could feel dated much more quickly than they would like.) It feels more like Downtown Disney's West Side. Maybe my tune will change when I see it in person.
 

mysto

Well-Known Member
I'll need to see them in person. I can't say I'm all that wowed right now. But, we'll see. Don't get me wrong. It's nice, but it's just kind of a vertical lighting package. (It also feels a bit disjointed from the open air of Connections/Creations, the natural aspects of the Gardens. And, I think this could feel dated much more quickly than they would like.) It feels more like Downtown Disney's West Side. Maybe my tune will change when I see it in person.

"Dated" may become a fan favorite, nostalgic, and eventually "classic". Epcot itself still has this going on in places that haven't been ripped up.
 

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
"Dated" may become a fan favorite, nostalgic, and eventually "classic". Epcot itself still has this going on in places that haven't been ripped up.

It could be, but I don't think the "nostalgic" pieces of Epcot are actually because of the individual buildings. It was more the collective that they represent. The whole was certainly greater than the sum of its parts. Plus, at lot of it was tied to the experiences inside, as they were very unique for their time. To be fair, everything has the potential to become a fan favorite. We remember those that did. And forget those that didn't (with the rare few that gain cult favorite status). To state the obvious, it's the reason we still lament the loss of Horizons but not the privatization of the Golf Inn.

I certainly see your point (and, of course, I'm an adult now vs. a child). But, I guess this just isn't aiming for something bigger - as the original park did (at least in my view). This feels very safe. Obviously, our days of social media and influencers can create that feeling more easily these days. I'd just be surprised personally. But, time will tell.
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
The walls on the walkway to World Nature have been pushed back and the walkway has reopened - photos from today.

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flyerjab

Well-Known Member
Here is a 4K video of lighting tests from around CommuniCore Hall and Plaza this afternoon and evening.


I didn’t know what I thought about this building at first re: concept art. Seeing more actually coming together it looks really nice, especially at night. I enjoy anything that is even slightly seen as kinetic in a park. And although I like the World Celebration Gardens, the central planter still should have been a fountain, as that also adds kinetics and just the sound of water in this type of area would have been great. It’s one of the (many) things I love about Pandora: the sound of water is omnipresent.

So long as these lights don’t suffer issues like those in the concrete, this will really add some nice kinetic energy to this area.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
And although I like the World Celebration Gardens, the central planter still should have been a fountain, as that also adds kinetics and just the sound of water in this type of area would have been great. It’s one of the (many) things I love about Pandora: the sound of water is omnipresent.
I think the quickest “fix” to this might be to put some pillar-style fountains along the elevated central portion of the long planter where the Fountain of Nations used to be. Hopefully, they could mitigate the need for infrastructural work by having them circulate into their own self-contained basins, and it would add some nice visual height and sound to the area, which currently feels void of purpose. I believe there are even off-the-shelf options in the same COR-TEN finish as many of the other decorative elements in the park core.

I think the central planter can work, but it desperately needs a display appropriately scaled for the space. The tiny Figment and ugly oversized flowers that look like they came straight from the Wizard of Oz prop department don’t work. However, imagine a massive planet Earth topiary with a mechanism to allow it to slowly rotate; that would actually feel worthy of the space and appropriate for F&G.
 

flyerjab

Well-Known Member
I think the quickest “fix” to this might be to put some pillar-style fountains along the elevated central portion of the long planter where the Fountain of Nations used to be. Hopefully, they could mitigate the need for infrastructural work by having them circulate into their own self-contained basins, and it would add some nice visual height and sound to the area, which currently feels void of purpose. I believe there are even off-the-shelf options in the same COR-TEN finish as many of the other decorative elements in the park core.

I think the central planter can work, but it desperately needs a display appropriately scaled for the space. The tiny Figment and ugly oversized flowers that look like they came straight from the Wizard of Oz prop department don’t work. However, imagine a massive planet Earth topiary with a mechanism to allow it to slowly rotate; that would actually feel worthy of the space and appropriate for F&G.
That sounds…fantastic! If only they would do something like that. The Figment is too small and the flowers too cheap looking. So yes, I would only hope that some future management realizes expense and quality would mean a lot to the daily park goers. This part of Epcot could look incredible if they are willing to spend.
 

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