-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Beware of the "New Trimmed Down" Disney
- Thread starter bandman
- Start date
cymbaldiva
Active Member
VERY well said!
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
It IS the management's job to make the company profitable, and anyone who says differently either has no knowledge of economics or is just being ignorant. Disney has and will always be a company trying to make profit. Walt Disney had to make profit on his films to make new films, just like the Walt Disney Co. of today. Furthermore, what do you think Roy Disney's job was? The Walt Disney Co. was never out to be generous; it has always been expensive in an effort to make profit (and to keep some people out of the parks...). One must make money to spend money (and one must spend money to make money). Anyone who reports to stockholders will understand the importance of reporting profit. As far as I know, there are no stockholders out there (owning ANY company) who don't want to make money off of their company; that is why we invest in the stock market, and therefore all stockholders (who elect park managers) demand profit. Judging from the size of Mike's paychecks and year-end bonuses, I am pretty sure he wants to keep his job; in order to do so, the company must make money. Walt made magic because he knew magic made money; the same can be said today. Finally, as another said, all of the Cast Members on this forum would be pretty ticked at you guys saying they weren't doing a fabulous job making your vacations magical. You and I both know that 95% of the Cast Members you encounter are fabulous, which is a hell of a lot higher percentage of nice people than we find in the real world. I say kudos to the Cast Members, and I honestly am boggled at how you can complain at a company premiering a new firework spectacular while opening two e-rides for you this year in the wake of the current economy. I'm certainly impressed...
cymbaldiva
Active Member
>>You and I both know that 95% of the Cast Members you encounter are fabulous, which is a hell of a lot higher percentage of nice people than we find in the real world. <<
The thing is, I don't work and save to spend $200+ a night (that's just the room rate, not food or admissions) to live in the real world.
I spend it - or spent it, anyway - to be at Disney...you know, that place that's NOT the real world where the CM's are always nice?
The thing is, I don't work and save to spend $200+ a night (that's just the room rate, not food or admissions) to live in the real world.
I spend it - or spent it, anyway - to be at Disney...you know, that place that's NOT the real world where the CM's are always nice?
RAZORBRAD
Member
I think that all you Disney naysayers and bashers should boycott Disney World, oh, be sure to tell allof your friends too. Why dont yall boycott .. say.... the last week in Oct. that would be great then maybe I wouldnt have to put up with negative people like you when I am enjoying the " DISNEY MAGIC" I love it and I personally have never had a bad or negative experience during my ten visits.
tomman710
Well-Known Member
Right on, I have never had bad experiences in my many visits when I have had bad experiences at Six Flags or Universal parks. However, I must disagree with you on one thing ... I think all you guys should boycott the first two weeks of December, man that is the time, that'll really show them ....
You missed my point. I'm not debating the fact that Disney is a corporation and that it is their goal to be profitable. I'm sorry you had to write such a lengthy response trying to "educate" me on a topic with which I'm quite familiar. My point was simply that regardless of the REASONS, it doesn't change the OBSERVATION that Disney is going downhill. Whether it is the economy, stockholders, poor management, whatever. I think the person who started this post was simply pointing out an observation that things are going downhill and was trying to make us all aware of it, rather than trying to assess the reasons behind it. You can make all the excuses in the world, but the fact does remain that lately you do see more trash, more paint peeling, more rude cast members than before. I don't think anyone is trying to portray WDW or DL as places where everything is falling apart and every cast member is rude. We're just pointing out that it has dropped a few notches and that it is a shame to see that.
This past Jan/Feb I thought the parks where in very good condition and the CMs quite friendly. There was a lot refurbishment going on, but that goes with the time of year (off-season.) Illuminations was as spectacular as always; we saw it 3 times. Did you use Fast Passes? Using FP when ever necessary the longest wait was 15 min. and that was rare. This was prior to the reduced hours, however. Having gone there 3 times in 3 years I can say that it becomes easier to nit pick minor problems. You're less awed by the "magic" and more likely to notice little differences a first time visitor wouldn't. They have changed the format of Fantasmic a bit from 2 years ago (my 4 year old was dissapointed they don't have Mickey fight the Dragon from Sleeping Beauty anymore.) But it's still a great show. BTW, isn't Star Tour supposed to look a little dirty. After all everything in Star Wars looks dirty 
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Didn't have Mickey fight the dragon? You mean the dragon wasn't there? That would simply be due to last minute errors with the animatronic that caused him to not come out--that has happened with some frequency since day 1. As for the drop in standards that we have noticed since, say, April 1998, could that be because Disney opened a new park and had to find thousands more Cast Members, making it even tougher to find quality Cast Members. I mean, the property is about 50 sq. mi....kinda tough to keep that perfect. As for my analysis of the situation, I am not happy with just stating the obious (quality is slightly lower) without analysis. What would be the point in having any of these threads if we weren't going to analyze things? There is no need to state the obvious and leave it at that, as that is very much a 3rd grade train of thought. Analysis is far more meaningful. I learn far more from the "why?" or the "how" than I do from the "what". I'm not making excuses, I am exploring why we see changes. If you already were "quite educated" in the area, you should have bit your tongue before criticizing people for saying management is doing their job.
snowwhite66
New Member
There is one thing I noticed that I have not seen in the Disney parks before, I have been going only since 1997, The charaters like Snow White, Cinderella, even Mickey interacting and actually out and around Magic Kingdom! I think Disney got the point when it came to interacting with the next generation of kids and making their experience as magical as possible.
maybe I have not been lucky in seeing and interacting with the charaters, but this is my observation since the last time I was there in Oct/2002.
maybe I have not been lucky in seeing and interacting with the charaters, but this is my observation since the last time I was there in Oct/2002.
goofyfan13
Well-Known Member
:lol: yea i would have to agree, I wouldn't go to the extent thought to saying it sucks, it was a good idea just poorly executed. It was sad to see because I thought that this ride was going to scare the crap out of me when it was just starting but I didn't jump once. The water tunnel was cool though. Yes it wasn't Zeus vs. Poseidon anymore anyway, It was some red demon dude (can't remeber name). I am going to agree with everyone else saying the whole "It's hard to mantain a 4 park - 2 water park - 30 resort -- etc. complex bit", I'm sure all of you Universal fans out there would have the same complaints as the Disney fans do if Universal had the same numbers that Disney did. For conditions in Disney being so bad apparently I still manage to have the time of my life when down there so I don't know what everyone else is complaining about.:lookaroun :brick:
GoofyRules!
New Member
We just returned from our first as a family (I've been at least six times previously), and my wife and 5 yo son were absolutely enthralled! My wife grew up in So Cal, so she's known Disneyland all of her life, and nothing prepared her for the World.
She enjoyed our stay so much, we purchased into the Vacation Club and plan to return as early as this October.
Not one CM was rude to us. There were some lines, which (slightly) upset me with the shortened hours, but overall, we had a fantastic time, and are quite pleased with now being a part of the Disney family.
Look for the magic. It's still there!
She enjoyed our stay so much, we purchased into the Vacation Club and plan to return as early as this October.
Not one CM was rude to us. There were some lines, which (slightly) upset me with the shortened hours, but overall, we had a fantastic time, and are quite pleased with now being a part of the Disney family.
Look for the magic. It's still there!
AndyMagic
Well-Known Member
I respect your opinion on the attraction, however it was never meant to make people jump. It is a special effects show, not a spook house. Getting back to main debate, I agree that Disney does do a fabulous job at running 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, etc. However, I have noticed some declines in various aspects of the resort. Now even with these declines, Disney is still incredible but my point is that while Disney has begun a slow decline, Universal has continued to improve ever since it opened in 1990. Now in my mind Disney Parks are still the best as of now but I just wish people would give some credit to the underdog every once in a while. Universal Theme Parks have continued to make huge improvements in attraction design, themeing, and service and if any park comes close to matching Disney, it is Universal.
goofyfan13
Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying, but I was just dissapointed with it. I expected so much more out of that show. It was a great idea and I did sort of enjoy, I was just dissapointed. I don't wanna bash the show because it was pretty good but I guess we are all just spoiled by disney. :lol: Well we did find something we can agree on, Universal is the closest competition to matching Disney. :sohappy:
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
The argument that size makes it tougher to keep things clean doesn't really work for Universal--they are obviously much smaller, and still let things get in terrible shape (like the "animatronics"). At least Disney doesn't let their Animatronics start pealing, and in terms of dirtiness, I have noticed little change in the parks themselves--they still say very clean, except for during rain, but that bathrooms...that is the one and only area where I have seen rapid decline--sometimes, the bathrooms are completely disgusting, but when I see things like toilet paper on the walls, I blame obnoxious guests more than Disney Cast Members. There is no excuse for guests being that rude, and that is one example where it is the guests who have gotten worse, not the cleaning staff. Those are the same obnoxious people who smoke in the queues at attractions--I don't care if you smoke, but do it in the designated areas--smoking in queues is both disgusting and disrespectful.
cymbaldiva
Active Member
>>>Having gone there 3 times in 3 years I can say that it becomes easier to nit pick minor problems. You're less awed by the "magic" and more likely to notice little differences a first time visitor wouldn't. <<<
I've heard that theory before, and while I can say it could be valid, it's not in my case. The first 7 trips were pretty much perfect (except the holes in the walls in our room at ASMu, which I am letting slide...)- for me between 11/98 and 12/00 there was a major decline in well, pretty much everything at the World.
This troubles me...
I've heard that theory before, and while I can say it could be valid, it's not in my case. The first 7 trips were pretty much perfect (except the holes in the walls in our room at ASMu, which I am letting slide...)- for me between 11/98 and 12/00 there was a major decline in well, pretty much everything at the World.
This troubles me...
tomman710
Well-Known Member
The way I would judge "improvements" for Universal is that if they are making advancements to keep up with Disney, and this is not the case. They are not keeping up with Disney in any respect. So I don't think they are improving at all. In scope, themeing, innovating, rides, and sheer number of visitors and anything else you can think of Disney is about three steps ahead of Universal. If you use the argument that Universal is advancing in rides more so than Disney, than obviously your forgetting Mission Space or Test Track or pratically any ride or attraction from Disney in the past few years. Disney has not declined since 1990, they have grown. I respect your opinion but in my opinion no one comes close to matching Disney. Disney is in a category by itself. Universal is on par with Six Flags or Busch Gardens, now in the likes of that group that are dominating. But in the end, frankly Universal doesn't belong in the same sentence as Disney, the numbers prove that.
CTXRover
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by cymbaldiva
>>>Having gone there 3 times in 3 years I can say that it becomes easier to nit pick minor problems. You're less awed by the "magic" and more likely to notice little differences a first time visitor wouldn't. <<<
I've heard that theory before, and while I can say it could be valid, it's not in my case. The first 7 trips were pretty much perfect (except the holes in the walls in our room at ASMu, which I am letting slide...)- for me between 11/98 and 12/00 there was a major decline in well, pretty much everything at the World.
This troubles me...
Hmm, I just thought of this. You said you noticed a decline around '98, which happens to be the same year AK opened. This meant hiring thousands more to work as CM's, making it harder to find the "perfect" CM's we all want to see, which could affect every area of Disney World. Maybe this played a part in the decline you've noticed, maybe not. Maybe they reached that point of being too big (???)
As I've said several times before, I still don't notice this " rapid decline" some say has happened. Granted, I tend to see some imperfect things from time to time, but never anything that ruins my experience and is usually fixed by the next year when I visit (so I don't know how long the imperfections were there, though).
In fact, for me, my last trip in December 2002 was one of my most "magical", and I've been going to the "world" at least once a year for the past 12 years.
cymbaldiva
Active Member
:lol:
That's funny! I've thought for quite awhile that the World was getting a bit too large - you think maybe that's the problem?
BTW, it was '00 when the problems were noticable to me - the trip in '98 pretty much ruled!
That's funny! I've thought for quite awhile that the World was getting a bit too large - you think maybe that's the problem?
BTW, it was '00 when the problems were noticable to me - the trip in '98 pretty much ruled!
I agree 100% with your argument that analysis is what makes discussion more interesting. However, I still think you've missed my general point (which could be my fault, I'm not sure I was too clear from the beginning). My point, though, is that I don't think people are bringing up the economy, the stockholders, etc as simply an "analysis". It seems to me that they are saying we should overlook the declines in quality because of these things. This, to me, is making an excuse, not an analysis. At the same time, there are those who are completely blind to the fact that things are slipping. I see this as wearing rose-colored glasses. There are others, still, who say on one hand that things aren't slipping, but then say in the same post that we should overlook it because of the pressures that management is under. This to me is a contradiction. And lastly there are those who say, "I challenge you to find another theme park that comes close" but when we point out the positive attributes of Universal, we get ripped apart for turning this into a "Disney vs Universal" thread. That to me is a no-win situation.