Alice in Wonderland updates

[TP2000]

LOVE that rare photo TP shared above of NF under construction. WOW...!
Many thanks for sharing that.

You're welcome. Judging by the winter clothes people are wearing, and the condition of the construction, my best guess is that this pathway through the construction was opened up for the Christmas season of 1982, about six months before the new land opened. They might have offered that pathway as a crowd-control tool during the busy Christmas weeks, and also as a way to build interest and buzz in the newly rebuilt land.

I was visiting Disneyland routinely in the early 1980's, and I don't remember ever experiencing this walkway. I do remember riding the Skyway over the construction in 1982 though.

 

[Californian Elitist]

http://datelinedisneyland.smugmug.com/

 

[mweier]

Aside from this new outdoor track (Disneyland has the only indoor/outdoor dark rides in the Disney world, by the way!)

So Test Track and 7DMT don't count due to speed?

 

[Bolna]

So Test Track and 7DMT don't count due to speed?

Also, there is Crush's Coaster in Paris- That one has at least a true slow dark ride section, so is not all at coaster speed. But I think the outdoor seen is already more coaster speed than dark ride speed.

 

[Californian Elitist]

So Test Track and 7DMT don't count due to speed?

TP is specifically talking about classic Fantasyland-style dark rides.

 

[Nland316]

I'm hoping that projection mapping is used for the painting the roses red scene! That would be really cool to make it seem as if there's dripping paint on each rose!

 

[TP2000]

TP is specifically talking about classic Fantasyland-style dark rides.

Thank you. People who are only familiar with theme park complexes that only have one or two dark rides don't really know what the term "dark ride" means historically.

WDW Resort only has two dark rides left; Peter Pan and Pooh. Disneyland Resort still has eight operating dark rides; Peter Pan, Alice, Mr. Toad, Snow White, Pinnochio, Roger Rabbit, Pooh, and Monsters Inc. That's using the accurate definition of "dark ride", of course.

 

[TP2000]

So Test Track and 7DMT don't count due to speed?

Not just speed. They don't count as a traditional dark ride due to ride system, facility, scale, scope and environment.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Thank you. People who are only familiar with theme park complexes that only have one or two dark rides don't really know what the term "dark ride" means historically.

I swear, TP, you are HILARIOUS. I don't know who makes me laugh more, you or GiveMeTheMusic.

 

[mweier]

So what is it about the ride systems that disqualifies omnimovers like Haunted Mansion, and other slow rides like journey into imagination & SE? HM is a classic wdw dark ride to me.

And boats don't count either? I've always considered PotC and LwtL dark rides. Not trying to argue, just understand how you're defining them as I've never ridden pooh and PP has a ride system that's overhead, different from most classic dark rides. Never been to Disneyland (yet...).

To my mind, anything at WDW that moves you slowly through the dark to tell a story scene by scene and room by room is a dark ride. I understand you to be focusing on some other older interpretation of it, so I'm interested to learn more.

 

[Bolna]

Thank you. People who are only familiar with theme park complexes that only have one or two dark rides don't really know what the term "dark ride" means historically.

WDW Resort only has two dark rides left; Peter Pan and Pooh. Disneyland Resort still has eight operating dark rides; Peter Pan, Alice, Mr. Toad, Snow White, Pinnochio, Roger Rabbit, Pooh, and Monsters Inc. That's using the accurate definition of "dark ride", of course.

Crush's Coaster in Paris does have a true dark ride section though, it tells a story, is dark, moves slowly. Even the little turtles your travel in are like a typical dark ride. It just then continues on into the coaster section. And it goes outside as well!

 

[Californian Elitist]

So what is it about the ride systems that disqualifies omnimovers like Haunted Mansion, and other slow rides like journey into imagination & SE? HM is a classic wdw dark ride to me.

And boats don't count either? I've always considered PotC and LwtL dark rides. Not trying to argue, just understand how you're defining them as I've never ridden pooh and PP has a ride system that's overhead, different from most classic dark rides. Never been to Disneyland (yet...).

To my mind, anything at WDW that moves you slowly through the dark to tell a story scene by scene and room by room is a dark ride. I understand you to be focusing on some other older interpretation of it, so I'm interested to learn more.

Crush's Coaster in Paris does have a true dark ride section though, it tells a story, is dark, moves slowly. Even the little turtles your travel in are like a typical dark ride. It just then continues on into the coaster section. And it goes outside as well!

We are referencing to the classic, Fantasyland-style dark rides, the ones that opened at Disneyland in 1955 and Magic Kingdom in 1971. We're talking about rides like Peter Pan, Mr. Toad, Snow White, etc. In this case, no, boat rides don't count, roller coasters with slow portions don't count, Haunted Mansion doesn't count and Pirates doesn't count, either. The key word is Fantasyland, and TP's right, Disneyland is the only park that has a classic, FANTASYLAND-STYLE dark ride with both indoor and outdoor sections.

 

[flynnibus]

We are referencing to the classic, Fantasyland-style dark rides, the ones that opened at Disneyland in 1955 and Magic Kingdom in 1971. We're talking about rides like Peter Pan, Mr. Toad, Snow White, etc. In this case, no, boat rides don't count, roller coasters with slow portions don't count, Haunted Mansion doesn't count and Pirates doesn't count, either. The key word is Fantasyland, and TP's right, Disneyland is the only park that has a classic, FANTASYLAND-STYLE dark ride with both indoor and outdoor sections.

So just say 'Fantasyland rides' - because you're trying to redefine the word 'dark ride' if you start excluding attractions like the Haunted Mansion.. or excluding 'boat rides', etc. Just say what you mean, not try to create new filters.

 

[Californian Elitist]

So just say 'Fantasyland rides' - because you're trying to redefine the word 'dark ride' if you start excluding attractions like the Haunted Mansion.. or excluding 'boat rides', etc. Just say what you mean, not try to create new filters.

I did say what I meant.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm still waiting to see the final concept... the inbetween construction photos can mislead people.. and it's not like complaints will change anything at this point. Waiting to see the final product before I judge.

 

[gboiler1]

WDW Resort only has two dark rides left; Peter Pan and Pooh. Disneyland Resort still has eight operating dark rides; Peter Pan, Alice, Mr. Toad, Snow White, Pinnochio, Roger Rabbit, Pooh, and Monsters Inc. That's using the accurate definition of "dark ride", of course.

I would think Little Mermaid qualifies as a dark ride as well.

 

[TP2000]

I would think Little Mermaid qualifies as a dark ride as well.

No, that's a big Omnimover, like Haunted Mansion or Adventure Thru Inner Space.

I think we're confused over nomenclature here, and with Disneyland jam packed full of the most rides at any Disney theme park in the world, there's an entire classification of attractions called "dark rides" that have been there since July 17th, 1955. And that doesn't just mean any attraction that is dimly lit.

Disneyland opened in '55 with three dark rides (Peter Pan, Mr. Toad, Snow White), and then Walt added a fourth in 1958 (Alice). Since then the fleet of Anaheim dark rides has grown to eight, with the addition of Pinocchio in '83, Roger Rabbit in '93, Pooh in '03, and Monsters Inc. in '05.

A dark ride, by it's historically accurate definition, is a short ride about three minutes long through a darkened warehouse. The ride system was generally a small electric vehicle on a buss bar track that held two to four passengers. The sets were designed to be viewed in the dark, and the use of fluorescent black lights and special paint gave the experience a unique environment. These rides existed on boardwalks and at amusement parks before Walt opened Disneyland, but Walt's first Imagineers used their talents from moviemaking to bring the level of showmanship and craftsmanship up to new levels. Peter Pan was, and still is, the most popular owing to its unique ride system that suspended the car from a buss bar in the ceiling, with the sets below the riders. A dark ride typically can only handle 500 to 800 people an hour, owing to the small capacity of the cars and the 10+ second dispatch interval between them through the darkened warehouse building.

The original Disneyland dark ride cars only sat two or three people in one row. Now they seat up to six in two to three rows. Mr. Toad's Wild Ride still has cars in 2014 that only seat two people, however. Hang on to your hats, ladies!

Meanwhile, in the late 1960's, Imagineering was revolutionizing the theme park industry with all sorts of new ride systems for large attractions presented on a huge scale never seen before. Advanced animatronics in big elaborate sets replaced plywood cutouts in the dark. Small World was the first of these new rides, but the Ford Pavilion at the World's Fair was massive and was really the grandfather of the Omnimover. Boat systems and Omnimovers (Small World, Pirates, Inner Space, Mansion) were capable of handling up to 3,000 riders per hour, moving them through massive sets on multiple levels in sprawling building complexes. The theme park industry was remade by 1970 with entirely new concepts in ride systems and technology.

Meanwhile, the classic Fantasyland dark rides still existed. And at Disneyland, they kept adding one every decade or so since the 1980's. Now there are eight dark rides in Anaheim. There are four in Tokyo. And only two each in Orlando, Paris and Hong Kong.

 

[flynnibus]

No, that's a big Omnimover, like Haunted Mansion or Adventure Thru Inner Space.Meanwhile, the classic Fantasyland dark rides still existed. And at Disneyland, they kept adding one every decade or so since the 1980's. Now there are eight dark rides in Anaheim. There are four in Tokyo. And only two each in Orlando, Paris and Hong Kong.

Sorry - but your own inclusion of Pooh in DL's count pretty much counters most of your criteria. You're over filtering things to justify excluding things not necessarily core to the concept (like individual whips vs an omnimover).

If you are going to call Pooh a dark ride... so is HM, TLM, and more.

But this is sounding more and more like people trying to say what's an E-Ticket or not...

 

[TP2000]

Sorry - but your own inclusion of Pooh in DL's count pretty much counters most of your criteria. You're over filtering things to justify excluding things not necessarily core to the concept (like individual whips vs an omnimover).

If you are going to call Pooh a dark ride... so is HM, TLM, and more.

But this is sounding more and more like people trying to say what's an E-Ticket or not...

Pooh is short (3:10 ride time), with a vehicle traveling on a buss bar past simple blacklight scenes. The characters in Pooh have the same basic range of motion as the characters in Pan, Snow White or Alice. I suppose one could take issue with the fact the Pooh beehive vehicle wobbles on a non-traditional motion base throughout the ride, but that's even less a gimmick than the flying boats at Peter Pan. Pooh was also done rather cheaply by Pressler, but that's another story.

Again, I think it comes down to nomenclature in a unique local culture like Disneyland. No other Disney park has as many dark rides as Disneyland does. So when Anaheim CM's from ride operators like @raven up to park Vice President's like Jon Storbeck talk about "the dark rides", they are referring to the eight traditional dark rides in Anaheim.

Other rides can certainly have dark ride elements, but are not considered part of the specific list of "dark rides" by Disneyland employees in casual conversation (like @raven24 here) or public presentations (like Storbeck has done).

Those of us fans who have interacted with those Anaheim CM's, or heard long-time Disneyland employees like VP Jon Storbeck speak at public presentations to the theme park industry at the IAPPA convention, have picked up on their nomenclature.

In places like WDW where entire parks only have as many rides as a single land in DCA or Disneyland, they seem to apply the traditional term "dark ride" to any and all attractions that are dimly lit. It's a different culture out there.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Pooh is short (3:10 ride time), with a vehicle traveling on a buss bar past simple blacklight scenes. The characters in Pooh have the same basic range of motion as the characters in Pan, Snow White or Alice. I suppose one could take issue with the fact the Pooh beehive vehicle wobbles on a non-traditional motion base throughout the ride, but that's even less a gimmick than the flying boats at Peter Pan. Pooh was also done rather cheaply by Pressler, but that's another story.

Again, I think it comes down to nomenclature in a unique local culture like Disneyland. No other Disney park has as many dark rides as Disneyland does. So when Anaheim CM's from ride operators like @raven up to park Vice President's like Jon Storbeck talk about "the dark rides", they are referring to the eight traditional dark rides in Anaheim.

Other rides can certainly have dark ride elements, but are not considered part of the specific list of "dark rides" by Disneyland employees in casual conversation (like @raven24 here) or public presentations (like Storbeck has done).

Those of us fans who have interacted with those Anaheim CM's, or heard long-time Disneyland employees like VP Jon Storbeck speak at public presentations to the theme park industry at the IAPPA convention, have picked up on their nomenclature.

In places like WDW where entire parks only have as many rides as a single land in DCA or Disneyland, they seem to apply the traditional term "dark ride" to any and all attractions that are dimly lit. It's a different culture out there.

Correct, CM lingo and talk about dark rides is really just referred to the Fantasyland-style attractions. No one (CMs) is ever talking about Mansion, "it's a small world", Pirates, etc. when talking about dark rides.