Additional land owned by Disney in Anaheim?

[sweetpee_1993]

Can one of the experts show me or describe exactly where the additional acreage owned by Disney is located in Anaheim? Hubby was just reading an article that mentioned some 2000(?) plan for a third gate possibly here? It's off S. Harbor? Is this where it looks like a whole bunch of parking lots on the Google map?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Some land was bought and was turned into a parking lot, specifically the Toy Story Parking Lot. It's in the red box.

There was also talk of turning the current CM parking lot into a park.

The Angels are having some issues with their lease for their stadium. Should that space free up and Disney buys it, it'd be even more space than these two lots above me, but what are the chances of that happening?

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Thanks, @raven24 !

 

[Californian Elitist]

Thanks, @raven24 !

Anytime!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Some land was bought and was turned into a parking lot, specifically the Toy Story Parking Lot. It's in the red box.

There was also talk of turning the current CM parking lot into a park.

The land that is now the Toy Story Parking Lot and Cast Member Parking was purchased in the 1990s as part of the expansion into the Disneyland Resort. It was at this time that the land was at that time designated as the site of the third gate. Even today, the zoning that allowed for the land to be used for parking is considered temporary meaning the land is still designated with the city to be used for a theme park.

Disney was so sure of Disney's California Adventure's success and that the third gate would be right around the corner that they bought the website thirdthemeparrk.com, which can still be seen thanks to the Way Back Machine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010331055528/http://www.thirdthemepark.com/

 

[Californian Elitist]

The land that is now the Toy Story Parking Lot and Cast Member Parking was purchased in the 1990s as part of the expansion into the Disneyland Resort. It was at this time that the land was at that time designated as the site of the third gate. Even today, the zoning that allowed for the land to be used for parking is considered temporary meaning the land is still designated with the city to be used for a theme park.

Disney was so sure of Disney's California Adventure's success and that the third gate would be right around the corner that they bought the website thirdthemeparrk.com, which can still be seen thanks to the Way Back Machine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20010331055528/http://www.thirdthemepark.com/

Yep, I remember that site. Funny how things just don't work out.

I'm not expecting to ever see a third gate, and if they do end up planning one, I don't see it opening for another 20 years.

 

[wild01ride]

So, how long has the parking lot on the Southeast corner of Harbor and Katella been there? (or, in Disney possession, I should say?)

I've visited DLR since 2005 or so and had never seen anything related to that parking area until 2013.

 

[wild01ride]

Yep, I remember that site. Funny how things just don't work out.

I'm not expecting to ever see a third gate, and if they do end up planning one, I don't see it opening for another 20 years.

I'm not sure what the zoning is in Anaheim as far as how many stories high they can build, but I'm really surprised, given the small footprint of the area, that they've used so many flat lots up until now. I mean, for crying out loud, the Car Dealers in the O.C. have parking structures as showrooms to save as much as possible on lot footprint.
I would imagine that DLR would consolidate a lot more parking into structures to save the open space for expansion.
It surprises me how much flat space still exists in the form of parking in and around the block area between Walnut -> Harbor and Katella -> Ball!
There is absolutely enough land there for an additional park (not that I'm particularly endorsing it...)
In particular, the lot at Katella and Walnut boggles my mind - it takes up so much footprint space that could be used for all kinds of things. I think about what DLR charges for hotel rooms, even for Paradise Pier, and think that even if a third park didn't make sense or wasn't accessible from that location, they could easily get away with building an additional resort and banking off of that. WDW builds resorts like crazy and gets primo $ for them even with tons of rooms. With so few rooms at DLR, there's no doubt that they could profit handsomely from a fourth resort!

 

[Californian Elitist]

I'm not sure what the zoning is in Anaheim as far as how many stories high they can build, but I'm really surprised, given the small footprint of the area, that they've used so many flat lots up until now. I mean, for crying out loud, the Car Dealers in the O.C. have parking structures as showrooms to save as much as possible on lot footprint.
I would imagine that DLR would consolidate a lot more parking into structures to save the open space for expansion.
It surprises me how much flat space still exists in the form of parking in and around the block area between Walnut -> Harbor and Katella -> Bell!
There is absolutely enough land there for an additional park (not that I'm particularly endorsing it...)
In particular, the lot at Katella and Walnut boggles my mind - it takes up so much footprint space that could be used for all kinds of things. I think about what DLR charges for hotel rooms, even for Paradise Pier, and think that even if a third park didn't make sense or wasn't accessible from that location, they could easily get away with building an additional resort and banking off of that. WDW builds resorts like crazy and gets primo $ for them even with tons of rooms. With so few rooms at DLR, there's no doubt that they could profit handsomely from a fourth resort!

Honestly, I hope we don't get any new parks. If we absolutely have to have a third gate, fine, but no more after that. I guess another hotel wouldn't be bad, but again, no more. I love our two parks and I don't want the resort to turn into something they can't handle.

 

[wild01ride]

Honestly, I hope we don't get any new parks. If we absolutely have to have a third gate, fine, but no more after that. I guess another hotel wouldn't be bad, but again, no more. I love our two parks and I don't want the resort to turn into something they can't handle.

I hear ya and I totally agree!
I'm just surprised about their land management up until now (with having remote parking Southeast of Katella and Harbor...seems like they're using that to make it the norm to leave opportunity for expansion on-site??)

 

[Vipraa]

I can see Disneyland getting a third gate at the Toy Story and Katella Lot far before WDW gets a 5th gate. Disneyland has a far worse capacity issue with the AP population and growing Tourist population. Its no secret that Disney wants to make Disneyland into a Vacation Destination to rival WDW and a great way to do that is add another gate.

Disneyland cast members are getting a new parking structure soon on the site of the former RV park in the Ball/ Harbor area and the Pumba Parking lot on Disney way is supposed to be converted to a structure in the near future so the Infastructure upgrades are underway.

As other have said the Toy Story and Katella Lots are zoned to be a another park and the area is roughly the same amount of area as DCA. Anaheim wants another park and so does Disney so in my opinion its not a matter of if but when.

 

[BubbaQuest]

They recently purchased a RV lot north of the park which they plan to turn into an employee parking structure.

This will free up parking in the Pumba and Toy Story lots. Note: In the previous pictures posted, the first lot (south of Disneyland Hotel) is the Simba parking lot. The bottom lot in the second picture is the Toy Story lot with Pumba above it.

People have talked about Toy Story becoming a third park. That was probably Disney's original intent. Since Disney did not purchase Garden Walk when it was recently up for auction, I doubt they plan on doing that anytime soon. Garden Walk is the mall between the 2 parking lots near Harbor Blvd that they already own.

 

[Texas84]

I will cry if they tear down the Big A, but that would be a good location. Right next to the new train station.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

I love our two parks and I don't want the resort to turn into something they can't handle.

Be careful with what you wish for. If expansion doesn't happen, then things get much more complex using the current Disney equation.

DLR is at a tipping point. The resort is already turning business away to keep quality high as evidenced by not being able to buy more than 5 day tickets, the resort participating in the CitiPass (DLR, Universal, & SeaWorld), and now the loss of the Select annual pass. This is strong evidence of TDA caring enough about the quality of a guest visit that they are willing to tell someone to take their business elsewhere - we've got enough on our plate to handle.

So, if expansion doesn't come - what will? Something Wicked This Way Comes... control.

If TDA got complacent in thinking they've got the maximum number of guests that they can handle with our current infrastructure and that model is yielding high ROI - why risk changing what they've got? At the point of thinking that the Disneyland Resort has hit self perpetuating momentum (no need to expland), the way to get the most ROI would be to implement a control mechanism to milk every dollar out of every guest while at the same time providing a method for "enhancing" the guest experience by providing them something to mitigate the long lines and crowds. The wicked that comes is in the form of a wristband and a web interface forged in the swampy depths of Orlando.

Expansion should be looked on as a strong indicator of a resort that is welcoming the challenge of looking towards the future and what positive can be gained from it and not a resort that is looking at their past and continuing to sell us the same experience.

When expansion comes to Anaheim, sound the trumpets as it will be another indicator of a resort that is fighting against stagnation and wants to keep the Disney Parks legacy alive here in the US.

Then hope and pray that the pursestrings are loosed and the mistakes of DCA aren't repeated.

 

[dweezil78]

Honestly, I hope we don't get any new parks. If we absolutely have to have a third gate, fine, but no more after that. I guess another hotel wouldn't be bad, but again, no more. I love our two parks and I don't want the resort to turn into something they can't handle.

Surprised you feel this way. I feel like with just two parks, it's become something they can't handle. I think it's obvious they need to create new space and experiences to accommodate for everyone who wants a piece of Disney magic in Anaheim. Plopping new Star Wars and Marvel experiences within the walls of the two parks that already exist is just going to lead to more demand and overcrowding which is going to be a sub-par experience -- at some point, they can only put so many people through those turnstiles and the dollars go flat. A third park opens up a whole new revenue stream (not to mention creates a lot of new jobs for the area).

These (relatively) newly acquired properties are so ripe for a third gate, I would be shocked if plans weren't announced within the next 2-3 years given the upcoming Star Wars sequels and the fever-pitch we're seeing of the Marvel empire.

The timing is right...

 

[Californian Elitist]

Be careful with what you wish for. If expansion doesn't happen, then things get much more complex using the current Disney equation.

DLR is at a tipping point. The resort is already turning business away to keep quality high as evidenced by not being able to buy more than 5 day tickets, the resort participating in the CitiPass (DLR, Universal, & SeaWorld), and now the loss of the Select annual pass. This is strong evidence of TDA caring enough about the quality of a guest visit that they are willing to tell someone to take their business elsewhere - we've got enough on our plate to handle.

So, if expansion doesn't come - what will? Something Wicked This Way Comes... control.

If TDA got complacent in thinking they've got the maximum number of guests that they can handle with our current infrastructure and that model is yielding high ROI - why risk changing what they've got? At the point of thinking that the Disneyland Resort has hit self perpetuating momentum (no need to expland), the way to get the most ROI would be to implement a control mechanism to milk every dollar out of every guest while at the same time providing a method for "enhancing" the guest experience by providing them something to mitigate the long lines and crowds. The wicked that comes is in the form of a wristband and a web interface forged in the swampy depths of Orlando.

Expansion should be looked on as a strong indicator of a resort that is welcoming the challenge of looking towards the future and what positive can be gained from it and not a resort that is looking at their past and continuing to sell us the same experience.

When expansion comes to Anaheim, sound the trumpets as it will be another indicator of a resort that is fighting against stagnation and wants to keep the Disney Parks legacy alive here in the US.

Then hope and pray that the pursestrings are loosed and the mistakes of DCA aren't repeated.

Surprised you feel this way. I feel like with just two parks, it's become something they can't handle. I think it's obvious they need to create new space and experiences to accommodate for everyone who wants a piece of Disney magic in Anaheim. Plopping new Star Wars and Marvel experiences within the walls of the two parks that already exist is just going to lead to more demand and overcrowding which is going to be a sub-par experience -- at some point, they can only put so many people through those turnstiles and the dollars go flat. A third park opens up a whole new revenue stream (not to mention creates a lot of new jobs for the area).

These (relatively) newly acquired properties are so ripe for a third gate, I would be shocked if plans weren't announced within the next 2-3 years given the upcoming Star Wars sequels and the fever-pitch we're seeing of the Marvel empire.

The timing is right...

I did say I was fine with a third park and a fourth hotel. I don't see a need for anymore after that, at least not right now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

People have talked about Toy Story becoming a third park. That was probably Disney's original intent. Since Disney did not purchase Garden Walk when it was recently up for auction, I doubt they plan on doing that anytime soon. Garden Walk is the mall between the 2 parking lots near Harbor Blvd that they already own.

Disney did not own the land in the 1990s either when they first announced the third gate.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I'm not sure what the zoning is in Anaheim as far as how many stories high they can build, but I'm really surprised, given the small footprint of the area, that they've used so many flat lots up until now. I mean, for crying out loud, the Car Dealers in the O.C. have parking structures as showrooms to save as much as possible on lot footprint.
I would imagine that DLR would consolidate a lot more parking into structures to save the open space for expansion.
It surprises me how much flat space still exists in the form of parking in and around the block area between Walnut -> Harbor and Katella -> Ball!
There is absolutely enough land there for an additional park (not that I'm particularly endorsing it...)
In particular, the lot at Katella and Walnut boggles my mind - it takes up so much footprint space that could be used for all kinds of things. I think about what DLR charges for hotel rooms, even for Paradise Pier, and think that even if a third park didn't make sense or wasn't accessible from that location, they could easily get away with building an additional resort and banking off of that. WDW builds resorts like crazy and gets primo $ for them even with tons of rooms. With so few rooms at DLR, there's no doubt that they could profit handsomely from a fourth resort!

They are using flat lots to preserve flexibility. The Toy Story lot is zoned to be the 3rd gate, so you don’t want to build a parking structure there. Downtown Disney are flat lots because current parking areas are slated to be either more shopping and/or future hotels. Parking structures would be added if and when those flat lots go to expansion. Pumbaa is supposed to be the next guest parking structure. It was already supposed to be under way, but the funding to build it was not approved a few years back. I bet they wish that was built. I am guessing that once the new lot on Ball is ready for CM’s the Pumbaa parking structure will get approved.
A 3rd gate will happen it is only a question of when. I’m not sure Iger would approve a 3rd gate so close to him heading out the door so we may have to wait until a new CEO comes in for it to be greenlit. A 3rd gate is so tempting right now though with 2 parks obviously crowded and so many recent acquisitions ripe for inclusion in the parks with no obvious fit in either of the 2 current parks.
Disney does need more hotels. Anaheim hotel occupancy is way up and more hotels are under construction in the area. I’m a little surprised Disney has not seen the opportunity to make more money. They need 2 more hotels, at least.

Honestly, I hope we don't get any new parks. If we absolutely have to have a third gate, fine, but no more after that. I guess another hotel wouldn't be bad, but again, no more. I love our two parks and I don't want the resort to turn into something they can't handle.

It would be a long time if ever for a 4th gate. I think they learned from WDW that 4 gates are not a good idea. (which is why talk of a 5th gate makes no sense to me.) Notice that no other Disney resort has more than 2 gates presently.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

It would be a long time if ever for a 4th gate. I think they learned from WDW that 4 gates are not a good idea. (which is why talk of a 5th gate makes no sense to me.) Notice that no other Disney resort has more than 2 gates presently.

This makes sense. I was a local and lived in Orlando when MGM/DHS was built. We were seasonal AP holders and I can tell you with absolute certainty that crowds in the "off season" were not an issue at all at the time that the 3rd gate went in. The motivation to move from 2 gates to 3 was totally different. Then the 3 to 4 again was not out of necessity. Having just been to DL during what was considered not a busy time and seeing the masses we did in DL even during the week, even during extra hours in the morning, something needs to be done to pull some pressure off that park. We also saw a TON of people sporting "First Visit" buttons. I'd say roughly 30-40% of the people there and that's just the people who chose to wear them. We were first timers but didn't. The people are there. The need, not want, is there. Its interesting, tho, to ponder the differences in motivation and conditions for expansions/possible expansions past & present.

 

[deix15x8]

It seems like the opportunity and need for the third gate is their. If they do it right they can make it work. The current two gates are right across from each other. If this is built in the other area it will feel disconnected from the rest of the resort. With the right theming though they could create an advanced transit system to get people into the third park from the other two. By theming it as sci-fi with Marvel and Star Wars areas they could make the ride to the entrance feel fitting. It would also work well to complete the portfolio lineup so that Disneyland can remain focused on the fairytales while California Adventure is more focused on the hollywood and pixar products.