A Spirited Perfect Ten

[71jason]

Which, of course, is the kind of thing you'd want from a creative. I get that WDW1974 isn't a big fan of the MCU movies, despite liking Ant-Man, but the criticism of Feige seems odd to me considering how much we tend to slam corporate types on these pages. Here's a creative guy, the type that actually makes stuff, is largely being left alone by the suits and is churning out hit after hit. And not just commercially but critically -- every Marvel Studios movie is "fresh" on Rotten Tomatoes and many are very well regarded for the genre.

I think that hate against Feige is just the beginning signs of a backlash against the "X-Men like superhero movie" genre (not only inevitable, but long overdue, based on history). Marvel got lucky with the "pop culture freeze" that set in around the mid-90s and is only now starting to thaw, but once tastes move on, the movies will all look dated and there won't be nearly 123 of them.

Fortunately Gen-Xers mainline nostalgia, so in our 60s will probably stage some sort of revival of the MCU.

 

[SirLink]

I think that hate against Feige is just the beginning signs of a backlash against the "X-Men like superhero movie" genre (not only inevitable, but long overdue, based on history). Marvel got lucky with the "pop culture freeze" that set in around the mid-90s and is only now starting to thaw, but once tastes move on, the movies will all look dated and there won't be nearly 123 of them.

Fortunately Gen-Xers mainline nostalgia, so in our 60s will probably stage some sort of revival of the MCU.

I don't see it thawing to that extent, I also don't see tastes moving on, the Hollywood popcorn bucket films are here to stay. Cinema going public are not going to replace seeing someone get beat up with explosions for some art-house-emotional-junk-about-a-cat-who-dies.

 

[Nubs70]

Unlikely since we've had HTEs for quite some time.

But its the easiest explainer for why MK outdraws Tokyo.

But WDW has increased the total number of HTE since implementation of MM+. I now think it would not be co-opted for financial justifications, however, I think it shows how HTE can be used to pump attendance metrics.

I have a suspicion that the use of HTE will help out internal metrics thus someone's bonus schedule. They have effectively created a 412 day "Corporate Year". Plus a side benefit of HTE is that all labor, material, and overhead can be billed to normal daily operations. HTE are internally as close to pure profit as you can get.

 

[rael ramone]

How about trying to book rides or shows and being directed only to Epcot or AK or DHS on a day Disney knows the MK will be bursting at the seams. Booking 60 days out allows them to manipulate consumers choices by saying, "Sorry, Space Mountain and 7DMT isn't available on Friday, how about Thursday? TOT and Fantasmic are available on this Friday for you instead."

I wonder how a person would react if they tried to reserve rides at the MK at the 60 day mark & got turned away - on the same day they have reserved DINING...

 

[doctornick]

I think that hate against Feige is just the beginning signs of a backlash against the "X-Men like superhero movie" genre (not only inevitable, but long overdue, based on history). Marvel got lucky with the "pop culture freeze" that set in around the mid-90s and is only now starting to thaw, but once tastes move on, the movies will all look dated and there won't be nearly 123 of them.

Fortunately Gen-Xers mainline nostalgia, so in our 60s will probably stage some sort of revival of the MCU.

But that just seems like a complaint about the genre or how Hollywood runs, not Feige specifically. If someone doesn't like comic book movies or the trend of having such a large number of them, that's understandable. But what Feige has done with Marvel Studios is that least present the genre is a different way and has made films that are overall quite good (in the spectrum of comic book movies/popcorn flicks -- no one is saying they are Citizen Kane).

Personally, I think what's been impressive is that Feige has really captured many of the features that made comic books popular and translated it essentially directly to the big screen. The stuff like a connected universe, teasing upcoming productions, slow progressing storylines, the bright flashy color palate, the degree of humor -- all are taken right out of comic books and really haven't been done on the same scale (or as effectively) before despite scores of previous comic book movies. And when he talks about the film universe you can tell he "gets it" by being faithful to the source material and its fans while being practical about making big budget movies with wide appeal. I think it's pretty amazing what Marvel Studios has done under his leadership and he deserves a world of credit.

 

[MKCP 1985]

I've planned multiple trips that way and never had a problem. Hardly ever in the room anyway.

You could say the same thing about sleeping under a bridge I suppose. ha -

 

[71jason]

I don't see it thawing to that extent, I also don't see tastes moving on, the Hollywood popcorn bucket films are here to stay. Cinema going public are not going to replace seeing someone get beat up with explosions for some art-house-emotional-junk-about-a-cat-who-dies.

Not saying popcorn movies in general--of course those are evergreen. But it won't be guys in leather versions of comic book spandex doing the beating up forever. The good guys always still win in the showdown at the end, but they're rarely cowboys or starship pilots anymore.

 

[71jason]

But that just seems like a complaint about the genre or how Hollywood runs, not Feige specifically.

Exactly my point.

But what Feige has done with Marvel Studios is that least present the genre is a different way and has made films that are overall quite good (in the spectrum of comic book movies/popcorn flicks -- no one is saying they are Citizen Kane).

Personally, I think what's been impressive is that Feige has really captured many of the features that made comic books popular and translated it essentially directly to the big screen.

For the record, I think the guy is brilliant, and the MCU movies overall--most of which are very good--are somehow better as a whole than individually. But I also recognize that fads come and go (at least they used to), and despite a unprecedented two-decade run, superhero movies may finally be starting to fade, alongside a lot of other aspects of pop culture that have been stagnant.

 

[Stevek]

I dunno.

I will say they played the new 'Chewie, we're home' trailer as the last one before my nearly sold out Ant Man experience Tuesday and ... there was no buzz, no applause, no nothing. ... Now, I'm sure people are going to point out that it's been out a while, but that certainly doesn't mean most people have seen it or seen it on the big screen.

I honestly don't remember the last time I saw anyone applaud or have a strong positive reaction to a trailer while in a theater. The trailer has, from what I've read online, been very well received and done significantly more to build excitement than the first teaser. Heck, even the comic con footage is playing very well over the web. I have no doubts that this movie will open incredibly strong and will do well regardless of the quality...it's pretty much critic proof as the prequels showed (for the most part). The bigger question is truly whether it will be a modest success or perhaps one of the top 5 biggest movies of all time. The latter will likely happen if it's more original trilogy and less prequel trilogy quality-wise.

 

[Quinnmac000]

The online response and comic-con can easily be explained by fanboys geeking out more so than the General Public actually being hyped for something.

It's like when Sharknado 3 came on and twitter blew up with Sharknado based tweets but it had low viewer ratings. Fans manipulated the system to make it seem like it was something big when it was not. Same thing with nearly all comic book/video games/"nerdy" based products. They are the guys on the internet tend to be fanboys of those products making the comments creating that image of what will be big and what won't be but you can't used that to base the success of something otherwise you get way exaggerated predictions of success (Avengers 2 where it was predicted $250 million opening weekend) and Underrated results (Jurassic World where everyone was complaining about CGI and predicted to flop)

 

[PhotoDave219]

So… Given a lot of thought about this.

First… Our forum has a very negative reputation inside celebration place. Some of it is because we are a bunch of smart . Some of it is because of the criticism that we make towards the company and rightfully so… We point out things that need to be addressed or things the company is doing that we feel is wrong.

And then we have threads where the lack of humanity of some of our fourum members are completely revealed. And that disappoints me… But we have some people that just feel the need to split every hair about every single subject.

Because we have serious topics that we do discuss. Public Safety is a significant issue at the Walt Disney World resort. It is such an issue that the Orange county sheriffs office is building a permanent sub station in downtown Disney. Yes, four years Disney has dealt with crimes against property. People breaking into cars. People stealing stuff from strollers. Petty fraud & the like. Since September 2001, the steaks have gotten incredibly higher. Society as a whole has gone off the deep end, as evidenced by what went on in Louisana last night.

Now we have things like a Woman lying in the bushes for several hours before Disney security even notices. And I'm sorry, Disney security needs to explain themselves in this instance. There is no way on gods green earth that security should have missed a person lying in the bushes for multiple hours, only finding them shortly before dawn at 5:45 in the morning accordig to the police narrative. There is simply no excuse.

Now a few weeks ago and it came out that a bunch of security people are suing for wrongful termination and other things. In those cases, it was revealed that no, some Disney security people simply don't do their damn job. And it's clear as day to me that somebody at downtown Disney a week ago Wednesday certainly was not doing their job.

How did these tied together? The culture of complacency. Lack of accountability. Disney security and the Orange county sheriffs office are responsible for keeping roughly 150,000 people safe at any given moment. Part of that task involves patrolling the waterfront behind house please make sure nobody's in the damn bushes. If they can't even do that right, how am I going to know if they can stop the bigger things?

I can only imagine that the executive leadership would have the same reaction as me - "how the hell do you not notice a person in the bushes for three or four hours?!"

Thankfully, it was a 36 hour story as it came to a quick resolution. Still though, theres a big question that needs to be answered.

 

[BernardandBianca]

But WDW has increased the total number of HTE since implementation of MM+. I now think it would not be co-opted for financial justifications, however, I think it shows how HTE can be used to pump attendance metrics.

I have a suspicion that the use of HTE will help out internal metrics thus someone's bonus schedule. They have effectively created a 412 day "Corporate Year". Plus a side benefit of HTE is that all labor, material, and overhead can be billed to normal daily operations. HTE are internally as close to pure profit as you can get.

Is not the issue what the attendance is at MK vs. attendance at TDL? The HTEs do bring more people into the MK, and they are paying to enter. So why would these numbers not be included with MK attendance, since you are essentially getting two admissions paid for? I personally think there is a bigger problem in counting parkhoppers (how do you know that someone isn't parkhopping). But whether the year has 365 days eligible for attendance counts, or 411, doesn't affect the total attendance, just the per day average.

 

[Bairstow]

Now we have things like a Woman lying in the bushes for several hours before Disney security even notices. And I'm sorry, Disney security needs to explain themselves in this instance. There is no way on gods green earth that security should have missed a person lying in the bushes for multiple hours, only finding them shortly before dawn at 5:45 in the morning accordig to the police narrative. There is simply no excuse.

Now a few weeks ago and it came out that a bunch of security people are suing for wrongful termination and other things. In those cases, it was revealed that no, some Disney security people simply don't do their damn job. And it's clear as day to me that somebody at downtown Disney a week ago Wednesday certainly was not doing their job.

Should it be Disney Security's policy to perform a nightly check of every bush on property? Are you saying that because there was a person behind a bush that there is no excuse for their not having found them, regardless of how far from a sidewalk or how obscured the woman's position was?
I'm not absolving them, but without a concrete allegation what exactly security did wrong, I'm not sure what your criticism of them is.

 

[Stevek]

The online response and comic-con can easily be explained by fanboys geeking out more so than the General Public actually being hyped for something.

It's like when Sharknado 3 came on and twitter blew up with Sharknado based tweets but it had low viewer ratings. Fans manipulated the system to make it seem like it was something big when it was not. Same thing with nearly all comic book/video games/"nerdy" based products. They are the guys on the internet tend to be fanboys of those products making the comments creating that image of what will be big and what won't be but you can't used that to base the success of something otherwise you get way exaggerated predictions of success (Avengers 2 where it was predicted $250 million opening weekend) and Underrated results (Jurassic World where everyone was complaining about CGI and predicted to flop)

Hopefully you're not comparing Sharknado to Star Wars. I'm very much a Star Wars fanbois, but I know plenty of more casual SW fans that are very hyped for this movie based on the trailers. Star Wars has been a part of Americana for almost 40 years and has continued to be culturally relevant through the vast majority of that time with even younger fans coming onboard due to the prequel trilogy and now Clone Wars & Rebels (not to mention the hundred plus books and comic series). Is the general public "geeked" for SW? Probably much more than they are for the average movie release solely based on Star Wars' historical significance.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Should it be Disney Security's policy to perform a nightly check of every bush on property? Are you saying that because there was a person behind a bush that there is no excuse for their not having found them, regardless of how far from a sidewalk or how obscured the woman's position was?
I'm not absolving them, but without a concrete allegation what exactly security did wrong, I'm not sure what your criticism of them is.

I'm horrified you even have to ask these questions.

Yes, security should damn well be checking the bushes.

 

[Steel City Magic]

@PhotoDave219 Couldn't agree more. They're called SECURITY for a reason after all...

 

[Funmeister]

Should it be Disney Security's policy to perform a nightly check of every bush on property? Are you saying that because there was a person behind a bush that there is no excuse for their not having found them, regardless of how far from a sidewalk or how obscured the woman's position was?
I'm not absolving them, but without a concrete allegation what exactly security did wrong, I'm not sure what your criticism of them is.

This bush was not "every bush on property." We are not talking about a retention pond in the woods off of Bear Creek Rd.

Put your mother, daughter or sister in the scenario...would you be satisfied with your logic?

I am not trying to pick a fight or a debate but would you be satisfied with what you said if it were your family member?

 

[gmajew]

So… Given a lot of thought about this.

First… Our forum has a very negative reputation inside celebration place. Some of it is because we are a bunch of smart *****. Some of it is because of the criticism that we make towards the company and rightfully so… We point out things that need to be addressed or things the company is doing that we feel is wrong.

And then we have threads where the lack of humanity of some of our fourum members are completely revealed. And that disappoints me… But we have some people that just feel the need to split every hair about every single subject.

Because we have serious topics that we do discuss. Public Safety is a significant issue at the Walt Disney World resort. It is such an issue that the Orange county sheriffs office is building a permanent sub station in downtown Disney. Yes, four years Disney has dealt with crimes against property. People breaking into cars. People stealing stuff from strollers. Petty fraud & the like. Since September 2001, the steaks have gotten incredibly higher. Society as a whole has gone off the deep end, as evidenced by what went on in Louisana last night.

Now we have things like a Woman lying in the bushes for several hours before Disney security even notices. And I'm sorry, Disney security needs to explain themselves in this instance. There is no way on gods green earth that security should have missed a person lying in the bushes for multiple hours, only finding them shortly before dawn at 5:45 in the morning accordig to the police narrative. There is simply no excuse.

Now a few weeks ago and it came out that a bunch of security people are suing for wrongful termination and other things. In those cases, it was revealed that no, some Disney security people simply don't do their damn job. And it's clear as day to me that somebody at downtown Disney a week ago Wednesday certainly was not doing their job.

How did these tied together? The culture of complacency. Lack of accountability. Disney security and the Orange county sheriffs office are responsible for keeping roughly 150,000 people safe at any given moment. Part of that task involves patrolling the waterfront behind house please make sure nobody's in the damn bushes. If they can't even do that right, how am I going to know if they can stop the bigger things?

I can only imagine that the executive leadership would have the same reaction as me - "how the hell do you not notice a person in the bushes for three or four hours?!"

Thankfully, it was a 36 hour story as it came to a quick resolution. Still though, theres a big question that needs to be answered.

It is a sad state how pathetic people have become and the crimes they are willing to commit these days. Maybe it is the age we live in and the rapid rate that news spread but the world really seams so much worse then it was even in the 90s.

Just sad some people are so disappointing.

 

[Iwerks64]

The attendance will be what the Chinese want it to be.

Correction - the attendance will be what the Chinese say it is.

 

[Iwerks64]

I'll say again.. the need for growth vs demonstrating healthy sustainability.

The difference between steady healthy return... vs 'always promising more'. If I'm in a business that returns 60% gross margins and 30+% profit... can we not find a happy medium that says 30% return is fantastic and let's stay there. And forget about 'how do we get 30% of a bigger number...'.

If you aren't growing.. you're dying.. should not be a universal rule.. yet we seem to believe that of every public company now.

It's not just public companies. Most private companies have the same mindset. Once you get a taste of growth, If your CAGR is not getting bigger every year, you are failing.