Lights of Winter not being displayed this year (2009)!?!

BroganMc said:

According to my cousin (the electrician and remodeler) they were sign bulbs. A tech around 30 years old. The CM knew them as "square bulbs" that aren't made anymore.

The framework itself was designed a decade or so ago but they didn't use current tech for the lighting. The flicker bulbs Disney uses is also very old technology. Sometimes old tech works best because it is so well known. But when you can't get the parts to keep it going, you've got problems.

The mistake they made was not preparing for an upgrade the last couple years. But then, I'm kinda glad they went for broke in NOT dressing up the park this year. It makes that area seem all the more desolate, especially to first timers.

Click to expand...

While that's a viable excuse...They had time to fix it. :lol: Too late now..

This reminds me of IASW and it's refurb. All the lighting in there was too old to be replaced, so they had to overhaul it.

EPCOT Explorer said:

Is the first Mr. Ferguson? :lol:

Click to expand...

Who else?

jt04 said:

I have never said Eisner left the parks to rot. :shrug: What I have said is he made numerous poor choices with growing WDW. I have also said he did more good than bad.

Click to expand...

You have made it clear you believe Eisner wasn't good for Disney. And you view Iger as some sort of savior.

He's just more of the same financially, ego-wise and big picture ...

jt04 said:

To be more specific

The bad..

Placing PI in the middle of DTD and "dividing" the area.

Click to expand...

Eisner didn't place anything. And PI existed when it was at THE END of DD ... it was later that a decision (a bad one, IMHO, even if I enjoy some of the items added) to add Westside and attempt to have a mall complex with a nightclub/entertainment zone smack in the center.

jt04 said:

The placement of the Swan and Dolphin and going third party in the heart of the property.
The massive highway build-out on property rather than expanding the monorail system.
Reactionary responses to Universal that created Disney-MGM and DAK (although the concept and execution were great, it was too early to add both parks IMO)

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you on those largely. And those were decisions that you can ultimately pin on Eisner (although not alone).

jt04 said:

Giving in on Alien Encounter and then compounding that with SGE.
MILF.

Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean here. Do you mean placing AE in the park to begin with, dumbing it down or taking it out?

jt04 said:

LaL tombstones.
Energy's reimagining.
Imaginations reimagining.
Soarin installed without a film that fits the theme.
The Wand and BAH! :brick:
Scaling back Kali.
Pirates/Depp overlay
Not maintaining attractions in pristine condition as far as is possible.

Click to expand...

Those are things that largely had almost no imput from Michael. You can perhaps blame him for the business mindset that allowed the final item. The others weren't things he bothered himself with ... a matter of fact, his response on riding Imagination 2.0 is legendary ... he yelled 'where did my f-ing $53 million go?!'

I'd have to ask around, but I am almost certain his input on those things you listed was basically nil.

jt04 said:

Walmarting most merchandise and most dining.

Click to expand...

You're using 'Walmarting' ... now I think your bulge has become a full-on mancrush!

jt04 said:

The good...

Wilderness Lodge. :sohappy:
Tomorrowland overlay.
Disney-MGM. Working studio was a failed concept but the park was very well Imagined.
Studios expansion that set the course for an awesome park in the future.
ToT.
RnRC.
DAK, but again built to soon thereby keeping the other parks from expanding as quickly as they needed to.
Tree of Life!
Coronado Springs.
Grand Floridian.
Game changing water parks.
Closing River Country (I realize you disagree with this :lol
AKL!
Saratoga Springs.
Dixie Landings and Port Orleans.
Removing the Skyway and 20K. Yes, I mean it. It will make more sense in a few years.

I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff.

Click to expand...

You're just listing items from when Eisner was head of the company. Some he had a lot to do with. Some he had input. And others he had none at all.

You have a fundamental lacking as to how decisions were/are made at a company the size of Disney. Michael was notorious for being hands-on, but even if he devoted eight hours of every day to WDW, he'd have had a hard time being responsible for the bad and the good you give to him.

jt04 said:

Iger green lighted Pixar Place and AIE, both huge successes by any measure.
Iger green lighted the new Fantasyland. People are grossly underestimating this decision. It's a turning point for WDW.
The Wand left. No matter the rumors, it happened on his watch.
The BAH is going.
Attractions are finally getting the needed maintenance. (HM, JC, Splash)
SSE rehab mostly a success.
No poorly themed attractions added. That is critical. I don't think you will see any more ideas go forward that are not well thought out and that meet Disney's highest standards. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

Again, you just fundamentally don't understand how Disney is run.

If you think Iger had on thing to do with most of what you list, you're flat out wrong.

Big things like the MK expansion? Absolutely.

Things like Mansion getting a redo or the wand being removed etc ... nope.

He doesn't have time for things like that. You do realize that Disney is so much more than WDW ... or even Parks and Resorts, right?

jt04 said:

I think that the complaints about SSE, Space Mountain and how the closure of PI was handled has as much to do with the management changes as anything. I get the feeling no more major decisions will be made without Staggs passing them by Iger. No more SSE descent failures, no more SM-esque budgets approved.

Click to expand...

Iger doesn't deal with attraction rehabs like Space and SSE ... he just doesn't.

And there will be little to no change in how P&R operates under Staggs.

Iger has said as much. Go read the man's quotes.

jt04 said:

By the way, when you say things like "I've been told by people in Burbank" etc, it rings so phony to me. I'm just not buying into it. Sorry, but you get too much wrong to be as "connected" as you portray yourself. And I'm not trying to get you to identify yourself. It is just 'embarassing' to read some of the stuff you write. :lol:

Click to expand...

I hate to blow my own horn (although like any male, I would if I could!) ... but my track record here and, more importantly, in the real world speaks for itself.

I'm sorry that when I state the truth, that I know folks in various parts of the company, if it makes you or others feel insignificant. Why it would is a mystery to me and best left for mental healthcare providers (if you have insurance).

Frankly, I'm more connected to both Disney and major media than I have ever stated here. And it doesn't matter one iota to me whether you choose to believe it.

You can't even respond to a simple question like when you last visited WDW, yet you go after my street cred?

Sorry, JT, the bulge is showing!

And just to get this somewhat back on track. The decision to kill LoW was financial and was made many months before the lights were allegedly found to be falling apart.

Guest Relations was indeed inundated by complaints last month and management has taken note as I've said before.

Things won't be this bad next Christmas.

WDW1974 said:

Who else?

Click to expand...

Cool. Didn't know you were a fellow fan.

WDW1974 said:

You have made it clear you believe Eisner wasn't good for Disney. And you view Iger as some sort of savior.

He's just more of the same financially, ego-wise and big picture ...



Eisner didn't place anything. And PI existed when it was at THE END of DD ... it was later that a decision (a bad one, IMHO, even if I enjoy some of the items added) to add Westside and attempt to have a mall complex with a nightclub/entertainment zone smack in the center.



I don't disagree with you on those largely. And those were decisions that you can ultimately pin on Eisner (although not alone).



I don't know what you mean here. Do you mean placing AE in the park to begin with, dumbing it down or taking it out?



Those are things that largely had almost no imput from Michael. You can perhaps blame him for the business mindset that allowed the final item. The others weren't things he bothered himself with ... a matter of fact, his response on riding Imagination 2.0 is legendary ... he yelled 'where did my f-ing $53 million go?!'

I'd have to ask around, but I am almost certain his input on those things you listed was basically nil.



You're using 'Walmarting' ... now I think your bulge has become a full-on mancrush!



You're just listing items from when Eisner was head of the company. Some he had a lot to do with. Some he had input. And others he had none at all.

You have a fundamental lacking as to how decisions were/are made at a company the size of Disney. Michael was notorious for being hands-on, but even if he devoted eight hours of every day to WDW, he'd have had a hard time being responsible for the bad and the good you give to him.



Again, you just fundamentally don't understand how Disney is run.

If you think Iger had on thing to do with most of what you list, you're flat out wrong.

Big things like the MK expansion? Absolutely.

Things like Mansion getting a redo or the wand being removed etc ... nope.

He doesn't have time for things like that. You do realize that Disney is so much more than WDW ... or even Parks and Resorts, right?



Iger doesn't deal with attraction rehabs like Space and SSE ... he just doesn't.

And there will be little to no change in how P&R operates under Staggs.

Iger has said as much. Go read the man's quotes.




I hate to blow my own horn (although like any male, I would if I could!) ... but my track record here and, more importantly, in the real world speaks for itself.

I'm sorry that when I state the truth, that I know folks in various parts of the company, if it makes you or others feel insignificant. Why it would is a mystery to me and best left for mental healthcare providers (if you have insurance).

Frankly, I'm more connected to both Disney and major media than I have ever stated here. And it doesn't matter one iota to me whether you choose to believe it.

You can't even respond to a simple question like when you last visited WDW, yet you go after my street cred?

Sorry, JT, the bulge is showing!

Click to expand...

Even with that said, I do seem to remember that there was some optimism posted when the announcement was made. Is it possible that with other management changes in the past few months that Staggs would not be forced (?) but made to put a little more emphasis on work and spending in WDW (and abroad) with increased pressure and need for it, as cited my other members of management?

WDW1974 said:

You have made it clear you believe Eisner wasn't good for Disney. And you view Iger as some sort of savior. Totally untrue. But facts are not your strength. Obviously.

Eisner didn't place anything. And PI existed when it was at THE END of DD ... it was later that a decision (a bad one, IMHO, even if I enjoy some of the items added) to add Westside and attempt to have a mall complex with a nightclub/entertainment zone smack in the center.

The West End was already on the drawing board when PI went in.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm not buying Eisner was as uninvolved as you say or that the CEO of any company "just doesn't have time" when big decisions are made. Heck, I have time to read up on and provide an opinion on just about everything Disney is doing. As many here on this forum can and do. So you expect me to believe many of these decisions go forward without input from the CEO. Nope, not buying it. Unless the CEO is purposely holding back and allowing folks to make or break their own careers by their decisions.

Bottom line is, if any CEO is going to claim credit for any and all success then, by the same standard, they have to take responsibility for any failures and then make the necessary changes. Iger doesn't pass the buck. He makes changes! The "too busy to take responsibility" excuse is nothing but a smokescreen. Try to scam someone else, it won't work with me. I noticed Eddie Sotto didn't have a clue who you are until after you PM'd him. That is odd if you are as connected as you let on. Let me be the first to call shenanigans. By the way, truly connected people don't have to buy an admission. Ahem! :lookaroun

PS- you really need help for your fixation :zipit: Really.

gsimpson said:

I work with stage lighting and dimmers (the kind used for LOW) and the older generations cannot really handle LEDs well, the problem is that LEDs are so very low current, the leakage (amount of current that comes through when they are turned off) of the SCRs/Triacs (depending on type of dimmer) keeps LEDs lit when incandescent bulbs would be dark, which means all the LEDs would be on, to some degree, all the time. In a similar vein, the "brightness" curve is very different for LEDs so the program would look awful if the were not changed. With traditional lights, the brightness changes in a fairly linear relationship to the voltage supplied, in LEDs, the relationship is much more of a curve that is weighted toward the lower end. The part about the lights not being made anymore is not completely true, they are still made and used by the carnival/traveling fair industry but they are expensive. I wonder if Disney tried simply changing the bulbs out for LEDs and found that it simply didn't work and it was too late to change??? I am not trying to excuse the mess, after all they should certainly know more than anyone about the pitfalls of changing from incandescent to LED. I guess we will know next year when we see if they replace it, repair it, or do nothing.

I hope I won't get too much bashing for trying to defend Disney because that is not the intent.

Click to expand...

Even if you are right, some folks here would find something else to bash Disney over. It's their hobby.

I now believe the "obsolete tech" story. Makes perfect sense! :wave:

jt04 said:

Sorry, I'm not buying Eisner was as uninvolved as you say or that the CEO of any company "just doesn't have time" when big decisions are made. Heck, I have time to read up on and provide an opinion on just about everything Disney is doing. As many here on this forum can and do. So you expect me to believe many of these decisions go forward without input from the CEO. Nope, not buying it. Unless the CEO is purposely holding back and allowing folks to make or break their own careers by their decisions.

Bottom line is, if any CEO is going to claim credit for any and all success then, by the same standard, they have to take responsibility for any failures and then make the necessary changes. Iger doesn't pass the buck. He makes changes! The "too busy to take responsibility" excuse is nothing but a smokescreen. Try to scam someone else, it won't work with me. I noticed Eddie Sotto didn't have a clue who you are until after you PM'd him. That is odd if you are as connected as you let on. Let me be the first to call shenanigans. By the way, truly connected people don't have to buy an admission. Ahem! :lookaroun

PS- you really need help for your fixation :zipit: Really.

Click to expand...

Care to explain how? You lost me...

EPCOT Explorer said:

Care to explain how? You lost me...

Click to expand...

You're just like his mind then.

EPCOT Explorer said:

Care to explain how? You lost me...

Click to expand...

How, what?

I'm not going too far off topic as I don't want this to turn into another _____ contest.

What is the actual question? :lol:

jt04 said:

How, what?

I'm not going too far off topic as I don't want this to turn into another _____ contest.

What is the actual question? :lol:

Click to expand...

We are OT already...Steve seems to want to keep us focused in this thread, ADD bunch that we are.:lol:

I was asking how Iger actually makes changes.

EPCOT Explorer said:

We are OT already...Steve seems to want to keep us focused in this thread, ADD bunch that we are.:lol:

I was asking how Iger actually makes changes.

Click to expand...

Mr Cook, Rasolu/Staggs switch, changes last year, continued reassignments at WDW etc. Then add Pixar/Marvel/Stan Lee etc., and you get the idea.

Yeah, don't want to make Steve mad. That is why I'm not getting into a duel with 74. Or Pumbas for that matter, even if it is so much fun to do so.

So you are off the hook Pumbas. :wave:

jt04 said:

Mr Cook, Rasolu/Staggs switch, changes last year, continued reassignments at WDW etc. Then add Pixar/Marvel/Stan Lee etc., and you get the idea.

Yeah, don't want to make Steve mad. That is why I'm not getting into a duel with 74. Or Pumbas for that matter, even if it is so much fun to do so.

So you are off the hook Pumbas. :wave:

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that he's changing those fields directly, but he certainly is adjusting management. While that changes park operations like LoW and other venues that are sorely lacking (There! On topic! ), remains to be seen.


Certainly looking, though.

EPCOT Explorer said:

I wouldn't say that he's changing those fields directly, but he certainly is adjusting management. While that changes park operations like LoW and other venues that are sorely lacking (There! On topic! ), remains to be seen.


Certainly looking, though.

Click to expand...

It appears to me (albeit from a great distance) that he gives people plenty of opportunity to prove themselves. He gives them examples to follow (Pixar, Lasseter, WDI in Cali. etc) and if they don't, changes happen. Seems like a fair way to operate a company.

I think that Iger has the wrong people in the head of P&R. I feel its a role best suited for someone who can make the idea people and the bean-counters work together.

I like the way he puts trust and and faith in his managers. I just feel the managers he's choosing arent the right people.

jt04 said:

It appears to me (albeit from a great distance) that he gives people plenty of opportunity to prove themselves. He gives them examples to follow (Pixar, Lasseter, WDI in Cali. etc) and if they don't, changes happen. Seems like a fair way to operate a company.

Click to expand...

At a very FAR distance. I would like to see one of them really prove themselves....Not that some of these people already did, like Lasseter.

EPCOT Explorer said:

At a very FAR distance. I would like to see one of them really prove themselves....Not that some of these people already did, like Lasseter.

Click to expand...

The new assignments at WDW are what I think we should be watching. The edwardtc (permits thread) confirmed a whole bunch of construction trailers have arrived on property. :lookaroun

jt04 said:

The new assignments at WDW are what I think we should be watching. The edwardtc (permits thread) confirmed a whole bunch of construction trailers have arrived on property. :lookaroun

Click to expand...

And we are watching. The PROOF is in the forthcoming pudding.

Those trailers are probably for FLE.

EPCOT Explorer said:

Cool. Didn't know you were a fellow fan.
Even with that said, I do seem to remember that there was some optimism posted when the announcement was made. Is it possible that with other management changes in the past few months that Staggs would not be forced (?) but made to put a little more emphasis on work and spending in WDW (and abroad) with increased pressure and need for it, as cited my other members of management?

Click to expand...

Craig Ferguson is the best thing to happen to late night TV in a long time. He really is so real and refreshing. Nice guy. And talented.

As to Staggs, I never said things wouldn't be better under his leadership. I'm just cautious. Iger has made it clear that his vision is what Jay's has been and what Tom is expected to follow.

WDW clearly is going to have some serious (and thankfully non-DVC) spending coming, but it needs billions at this point. Seriously. Just to deal with transport in a meaningful way. Expansion and updating of all four parks too. New entertainment offerings both inside and outside the parks.

Fantasyland is really just a tiny step in the right direction.

Again ... after a 2009 that saw almost nothing new anywhere (beyond timeshares) ... 2010 looks like it will see absolutely nothing new anywhere.

Four Parks: One Stale World

jt04 said:

The good...

Saratoga Springs.

Click to expand...

Really? Have they even sold all of the units yet?