Fortune Magazine: Disney's tech innovation is my nightmare

[habuma]

I missed this when it was first posted on Friday and have only glanced over the entire thread, so forgive me if I restate something that has already been said...

Firstly, no matter what aspect or quality of WDW distresses you, if it distresses you to the point that you don't want to go, then please do not go to WDW. Find a beach somewhere and relax. It'll save your sanity and help keep the lines shorter for the rest of us.

As for me, I was a huge skeptic and naysayer of FP+ when it first came about. But having used it on 2.5 trips (we were lucky enough to be able to double-dip with paper FP on one trip) and have already got an idea of how I'll use it on our upcoming trip, I've come to accept it. It's not perfect, but it works for us.

Does it ruin the spontaneity? To some degree, yes. For up to 3 attractions a day, I must plan 60 days out. What's the alternative, though? Ignore FP+ (yes, that's an option) and wait in lines. Spontaneous is not a word I'd use to describe waiting in lines, but if that's what you'd prefer, go for it. Nobody's making you pick FP+ selections.

As for dining reservations, sure it can be hard to know what you're going to want to eat 180 days out. (Actually, I find it easy to figure that out, but I can see how someone else might disagree.) What's the alternative? Hope to get in standby and wait a bit or eat quick service. These are, in fact, the same options you'll probably face on most Saturday nights in any city should you decide to eat out, so it's not a Disney-exclusive phenomenon. But if you decide to eat quick service, don't complain that all that Disney has is burgers and other theme park food.

The problem isn't FP+. The problem is that WDW is popular enough that it's tricky to ride popular attractions and eat at popular dining locations spontaneously, because those places are full. If anything, FP+ and ADRs help prevent a mass of hopeful people from gathering around the entrance in hopes of getting in standby. The problem is a capacity problem, not necessarily a queuing problem.

Fortunately, we're starting to see moves to increase capacity; although sadly, it will be awhile before those are fully online and they may have the effect of increasing demand. What might help, at least with regard to dining, is if they were to open up some of the "seasonal" quick-service locations more or even convert them to table service for dinner to help spread out the crowds.

Again, the demand is high and isn't met by the capacity. FP+ and ADRs help you find ways around that, but in the end it's still a capacity issue. So I say again, if planning for a WDW vacation is too stressful for you, then please find another vacation and do your part to keep the lines shorter.

Now excuse me while I go review the FP+ and dining selections I've made in my spreadsheet.

 

[Kamikaze]

I sometimes feel like I am the only one who actually likes the FP+ system. I realize it CAN take the spontaneity out of things but if you want that then there is the option to simply not use the system and go with the flow.

I love the ability to plan ahead and it's not like I can't change my plans. We are here right now and I made a change to my FP selections from one day to another when we got here with no issues. I suppose in very busy times that might be difficult or potentially even impossible. Not a huge deal in my books.

I love the Magic Band system!

Except for that it books up all the major FPs. So someone who doesn't want to plan in advance is at a huge disadvantage when they show up to the park that day and try to get, say, a SDMT FP at park open.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Except for that it books up all the major FPs. So someone who doesn't want to plan in advance is at a huge disadvantage when they show up to the park that day and try to get, say, a SDMT FP at park open.

If you are there at park open, you don't need a FP+. Just go there.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Except for that it books up all the major FPs. So someone who doesn't want to plan in advance is at a huge disadvantage when they show up to the park that day and try to get, say, a SDMT FP at park open.

Someone who doesn't want to plan in advance doesn't even know what 7DMT is. They also don't know that the park is extra crowded the week of Christmas. They don't know that the park is least crowded early in the morning. They don't know about Extra Magic Hours, or that the Magic Kingdom is busiest on Mondays. So when a non-planner shows up at the Magic Kingdom at noon on the Monday before Christmas and sees a three hour wait for Mine Train, that's on him.

Obviously, non-planners are at a disadvantage with FP+. They're also at a disadvantage with regular FP or no FP. They're at a disadvantage on a cruise, booking flights, or applying for college. Planning is an advantage, always has been, and always will be. FP+ just tweaks the form that the advantage takes.

 

[Kamikaze]

Firstly, no matter what aspect or quality of WDW distresses you, if it distresses you to the point that you don't want to go, then please do not go to WDW. Find a beach somewhere and relax. It'll save your sanity and help keep the lines shorter for the rest of us.

Ah, but the FP+ aspect of the stress does not need to exist. DLR does just fine without it.

As for me, I was a huge skeptic and naysayer of FP+ when it first came about. But having used it on 2.5 trips (we were lucky enough to be able to double-dip with paper FP on one trip) and have already got an idea of how I'll use it on our upcoming trip, I've come to accept it. It's not perfect, but it works for us.

Am I correct in inferring that you have not been to WDW since the system was put into place?

Does it ruin the spontaneity? To some degree, yes. For up to 3 attractions a day, I must plan 60 days out. What's the alternative, though? Ignore FP+ (yes, that's an option) and wait in lines. Spontaneous is not a word I'd use to describe waiting in lines, but if that's what you'd prefer, go for it. Nobody's making you pick FP+ selections.

Going to a park at open, getting a FP for the major attraction, riding another (or 2) and then using the FP and getting another IS spontaneous. This is not possible without planning anymore, as those FPs will not be available due to them being reserved with FP+

The problem isn't FP+. The problem is that WDW is popular enough that it's tricky to ride popular attractions and eat at popular dining locations spontaneously, because those places are full. If anything, FP+ and ADRs help prevent a mass of hopeful people from gathering around the entrance in hopes of getting in standby. The problem is a capacity problem, not necessarily a queuing problem.

WDW did just fine with relatively the same level of crowds with regular FastPass. And even before FastPass. And again, DLR does fine without it.

Fortunately, we're starting to see moves to increase capacity; although sadly, it will be awhile before those are fully online and they may have the effect of increasing demand. What might help, at least with regard to dining, is if they were to open up some of the "seasonal" quick-service locations more or even convert them to table service for dinner to help spread out the crowds.

Besides the third Soarin theater and the third TSM track, what moves are being made to increase capacity? Replacing something with something else does not increase capacity, which is what they are doing.

Again, the demand is high and isn't met by the capacity. FP+ and ADRs help you find ways around that, but in the end it's still a capacity issue. So I say again, if planning for a WDW vacation is too stressful for you, then please find another vacation and do your part to keep the lines shorter.

The demand is high, yes, but FP+ isn't 'defeating' the demand. Its doing a few things:

1) Keeping more people out of lines. Standing in line means no money going into Disney's pocket from food, merch, etc.
2) It tells Disney what is popular - and on top of that, it lets Disney know guest habits to a level they didn't before.
3) It will easily allow them to add paid features to the system.

Don't kid yourself that FP+/NGE was created to benefit guests. It might have benefits for some people, but there are others that it ruins their experience. Myself included - NGE, along with the general malaise of TDO, has removed WDW from my vacation destinations. I had a fantastic time at DLR last year, and maybe I will go to WDW in the future, but NGE will always be pushing me not to.

 

[Kamikaze]

If you are there at park open, you don't need a FP+. Just go there.

Yes and no. This works for one attraction, but it doesn't work for maximizing your day.

Someone who doesn't want to plan in advance doesn't even know what 7DMT is. They also don't know that the park is extra crowded the week of Christmas. They don't know that the park is least crowded early in the morning. They don't know about Extra Magic Hours, or that the Magic Kingdom is busiest on Mondays. So when a non-planner shows up at the Magic Kingdom at noon on the Monday before Christmas and sees a three hour wait for Mine Train, that's on him.

Obviously, non-planners are at a disadvantage with FP+. They're also at a disadvantage with regular FP or no FP. They're at a disadvantage on a cruise, booking flights, or applying for college. Planning is an advantage, always has been, and always will be. FP+ just tweaks the form that the advantage takes.

So because I don't plan my day to day in advance on vacation, I don't know anything? Are you kidding? You must be.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

So because I don't plan my day to day in advance on vacation, I don't know anything? Are you kidding? You must be.

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the average guest. Research is part of planning. Much of the knowledge that we in this community have about WDW is completely foreign to those folks. The planning element of FP+ is no more arduous that the rest of the planning involved in a Disney vacation. Just look at the success of The Unofficial Guide. They've sold millions of copies of that book. People pay money for a book that tells them tips and tricks on how to plan their vacation, yet you tell me that FP+ is some great burden.

 

[jakeman]

Don't kid yourself that FP+/NGE was created to benefit guests. It might have benefits for some people, but there are others that it ruins their experience. Myself included - NGE, along with the general malaise of TDO, has removed WDW from my vacation destinations. I had a fantastic time at DLR last year, and maybe I will go to WDW in the future, but NGE will always be pushing me not to.

Just curious if you have been since they implemented it?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Going to a park at open, getting a FP for the major attraction, riding another (or 2) and then using the FP and getting another IS spontaneous. This is not possible without planning anymore, as those FPs will not be available due to them being reserved with FP+.

Are you even reading what you are writing???? How the heck is going to a park at open, running to an attraction and getting a paper FP for the major attraction (if there are any available for a decent time if you aren't very fast like me), then going back at a specific time - spontaneous at all??????????????????????????? IT"S NOT. You are tied to that FP return time, even if you wanted to do lunch, or something else at that particular time. Again, not spontaneous at all.

I will absolutely grant you that FP+ is not spontaneous. But neither was the old FP system. The ONLY spontaneous method is standing in the stand-by line all day. No thank you.

 

[MichWolv]

I sometimes feel like I am the only one who actually likes the FP+ system. I realize it CAN take the spontaneity out of things but if you want that then there is the option to simply not use the system and go with the flow.

I love the ability to plan ahead and it's not like I can't change my plans. We are here right now and I made a change to my FP selections from one day to another when we got here with no issues. I suppose in very busy times that might be difficult or potentially even impossible. Not a huge deal in my books.

I love the Magic Band system!

My experience is more like yours. I wouldn't say I love it. But I enjoyed my trip with MB and FP+ more than I would have without it.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Just curious if you have been since they implemented it?

Hey, I'd rather he not, as that is one less person in line ahead of us.

 

[jakeman]

Hey, I'd rather he not, as that is one less person in line ahead of us.

It's still a legit question, I think.

There's really no denying that there was a fairly vociferous campaign around here to dissuade anyone from thinking that FP+ was a good idea and as you can see, many of those talking points live on.

My experience is more like yours. I wouldn't say I love it. But I enjoyed my trip with MB and FP+ more than I would have without it.

It's not the second coming or anything and I think I fall into the camp of rather having a card than a ban, but it was a net improvement on my vacation by probably a half point or so (8 to an 8.5 for example).

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It's still a legit question, I think.

There's really no denying that there was a fairly vociferous campaign around here to dissuade anyone from thinking that FP+ was a good idea and as you can see, many of those talking points live on.


It's not the second coming or anything and I think I fall into the camp of rather having a card than a ban, but it was a net improvement on my vacation by probably a half point or so (8 to an 8.5 for example).

Oh, I agree on both points. The only problem he has is that many of the most vocal critics against it, actually found that they liked it after using it for a few trips. He's just one that continues the hate. I guess people have to have something to complain about.

It may not be the second coming, but it sure has helped on all of our trips with it so far. We will be there in just a few weeks, and just made our FP+ reservations this morning. Had no problem getting everything we wanted. Only one NOT available was 7DMT, but since we have already ridden multiple times, we actually weren't looking for it on this trip. We'll ride it first thing if we feel like it. Ooo, I guess I'm trying to be spontaneous by doing something without any kind of reservation at all.

Oh, and my wife and I both love the bands!

 

[danyoung56]

For me the situation is what's different now for me vs. what was there before? Without any version of FP, if I wanted to ride the latest and greatest attraction, I either had to be there right at rope drop or I had to wait in a long line. Now, if I want to ride 7DMT, I get a FP+ for whatever time of day works for me. It's a bit more planning, but it allows me to experience attractions without having to stand in the long line (which I just never want to do!). It's a huge improvement for me!

 

[habuma]

Am I correct in inferring that you have not been to WDW since the system was put into place?

In the interest of not getting into a heated argument, I'll concede a few of your points. But as I said, I've been to WDW twice since the new system was fully in place, once before that when it was mixed with paper FP, and a couple of times before that where it was just paper. I've also been two DLR a few times where it's all paper. So I'm quite familiar with both systems.

At the end of the day, FP+ has not ruined the experience for me. We are still able to have fun and do things spontaneously, even if a handful of things are scheduled in advance. My most recent experience was at DLR with paper FP and while it worked fine for me most of the time, it felt foreign to me and I found myself wishing I had a few pre-arranged FP+ choices.

The one thing I did like about paper that can't (currently) be done with FP+ is that if I decided to not use a paper FP, I could hand it to someone else for them to enjoy. It's a shame that isn't available in the current system.

But to each his own. If you don't like it, then that's your opinion. I didn't find it stressful or as horrible as some have made it out to be (or even as bad as *I* expected it to be).

 

[Britrepeater]

If you are there at park open, you don't need a FP+. Just go there.

Really ? I went straight to 7DMT 15 mins before park opening after my 8:15 ADR breakfast and the queue was over 30 mins. No need to waste time here I did have a FP+ for later but there was thunderstorm so it was closed.
All the planning in the world can have issues and then it's back to standby. I liked the system overall but agree it may have been easier to just build a few more rides or attractions to improve wait times. But again I guess if you ride 5 rides instead of 3 that's more time you are not eating shopping, spending cash!

 

[Dukeblue1227]

Are you even reading what you are writing???? How the heck is going to a park at open, running to an attraction and getting a paper FP for the major attraction (if there are any available for a decent time if you aren't very fast like me), then going back at a specific time - spontaneous at all??????????????????????????? IT"S NOT. You are tied to that FP return time, even if you wanted to do lunch, or something else at that particular time. Again, not spontaneous at all.

I will absolutely grant you that FP+ is not spontaneous. But neither was the old FP system. The ONLY spontaneous method is standing in the stand-by line all day. No thank you.

Let's say it's not pre-determined 60 days in advance you're going to animal kingdom tomorrow morning. So spontaneously you decide to go there at park opening. The decision to go to the park has some implied choice to be there for longer than 5 minutes.. traditionally half a day.

Getting there at say 8am, and immediately getting a FP to everest for 9-10 is still spontaneous... you had no previous decision to do it, you are in that moment deciding to do it, getting an hour window within the next 2 hours is still spontaneous, especially if you bother considering the context of the point before trying to be condescending. Getting a fp for 2 hours from now for a ride I in this moment am deciding I want to do is lightyears more spontaneous then deciding to ride everest from 9-10 on November 1st....

 

[doctornick]

oh, cool! what other resorts do you book fast pass times in advance?

sorry if i insulted your mom's clipboard.

There's a number of popular museums worldwide where you can buy tickets in advance with specific entry times. Basically the same concept.

 

[PhotoDave219]

There's a number of popular museums worldwide where you can buy tickets in advance with specific entry times. Basically the same concept.

The Washington Monument is one. And its annoying..... mostly because the elevator keeps breaking.

 

[doctornick]

That is totally different then going to a theme park.

Why? I mean, the topic at hand was having to schedule specific times in advance of a vacation. If you are going to Italy and know you are going to the Uffizi at 11am on Day one and going to the Vatican Museum at 2:30pm on Day 3, etc. isn't that the same sort of thing?