cw1982
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, this attraction was chosen based on its high demand status. What little I have read about this implies that TDO is considering this process for certain high demand attractions only, not resort wide.
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New Return Procedure at Soarin'
- Thread starter 71jason
- Start date
As I understand it, this attraction was chosen based on its high demand status. What little I have read about this implies that TDO is considering this process for certain high demand attractions only, not resort wide.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Sure. But wouldn't it have more sense to do (say) TSMM or TT? Where they telling people outside of the LAnd building that Soarin' was closed to additional standby or were people walking in the building and up to the ride queue before being told?
Regardless, this test needed to be announced ahead of time to guests.
cw1982
Well-Known Member
So if all the paper tickets with a return time are given out within a few hours of the park opening, you cannot then decide you WANT to spend an hour or two in standby? Have the standby lines for Soarin' really been that long? If I have to park my sorry behind in a line for an hour or two because (1) I didn't get my behind out of my resort bed to make it to the park shortly after opening or (2) I decided to wing it and not get a FP+, that's my problem. And I have no right complaining to GS.
Brilliant idea, Disney. Thanks, Frozen M&G, for mucking everything up.
Brilliant idea, Disney. Thanks, Frozen M&G, for mucking everything up.
asianway
Well-Known Member
Back in the day...it used to be if you joined line for a ride before closing time, you got to ride - is it still that way?
This may be a way to save on the labor to keep the ride open as they cycle out guests
Not if, as mentioned, the paper return tickets are all handed out by 5:00PM and EPCOT closes at 9..... From what I read about the Frozen test, once the standby line reached a certain point, it was closed and the paper return tickets were issued. It wasn't clear if the standby line would be reopened once it shortened.
So if the standby line is closed several hours before the park closes and all the paper return tickets are handed out, you are SOL apparently.
Hopefully some who were there during the Frozen test can give us the scoop.
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
I feel bad for the folks that walked up after 5 without knowledge of the test.
This system sounded great for a meet and greet, but awful for an attraction. Why try this when FP+ is already in place? Especially for a ride tucked away in the bottom of a pavilion. That's a pretty long hike just to grab a return time.
This system sounded great for a meet and greet, but awful for an attraction. Why try this when FP+ is already in place? Especially for a ride tucked away in the bottom of a pavilion. That's a pretty long hike just to grab a return time.
stevehousse
Well-Known Member
It's completely asinine and I am shocked that they r resorting to this after already wasting billions on mM+ and FP+?!? I just don't get it...
disney4life2008
Well-Known Member
Please tell me this is a joke. I am not understanding why they are implementing paper tickets - what was the point of MM+/FP+? As it stands FP+ eliminates the possibility of riding major attractions a second or more times. You can argue the point that you could not anyway- but on the busiest days (including 4th of july) - I was able to ride major attractions 4 or 5 times thanks to legacy FP. Now you are telling me the standby line is being tested to eliminate - makes no sense.
Not only that, consider this - if this is made permanent, and they then work it into your magicband/ticket to ensure no double dipping, could they forbid a guest from getting a standby return ticket if they already had a FP+ for the same attraction? At least now if you want to ride multiple times, you can. They might do away with that if this test sticks around. They're trying "spread the wealth" it would seem. :/
rct247
Well-Known Member
So many problems and flawed logic behind this test. This wasn't thought all the way through. There is clearly a HUGE disconnect with the decision makers and the actual guest. Basically it stems from three logic points: 1) people don't like waiting forever in long lines 2) people tend to and are able to spend more money when they have more time out of lines 3) guest surveys clearly show that guests are happier when they had a Fastpass for an attraction even if it didn't save them time or feel they needed it. #1 is a real problem that Disney really does want to solve. #2 is purely for profit and money. #3 is banking on the fact that guests are stupid, gullible, and are tricked easily.
Lab Rats
Congrats Disney, you found they way to trick guests but in the process completely destroy how society has been training to line up and wait to experience an attraction at a theme park. For a resort where a large chunk of visitors are actually first time visitors and for a resort experience that costs so much money to be a part of, you are gambling with people. Testing on human subjects as if their lab rats.
Downtimes/Delays
The return windows at Anna & Elsa were only 30 min time windows. I assume Soarin's test was the same. A portion of guests already have a hard time making it in an hour time window for Fastpass. Then when they do enter Standby+, they wait about 30-40 minutes. Who's to say that with an attraction that that wait will be accurate or guaranteed? What if there is a downtime or delay that affects both Fastpass+ and Standby+ to the point that Standby+ results in an hour wait? Wasn't the point of the new standby return times to reduce time spent in a line?
Starving an Attraction of Guests?
Another problem is counting on people to return as well. If people decide to leave the park early or can't make their return window, that spot is now wasted for someone who would have wanted it when they run out. If you experience enough of this problem, the hovering Standby+ wait will then decrease as well. You can see it in Fastpass+ time windows sometimes. There are times that aren't as popular and thus standby moves much quicker. Not enough Standby+ and not enough Fastpass+ may result in very short yet significant periods where they could quite possibly not have enough people to fill the attractions capacity yet you may still have people wanting to experience it.
Attendance & Wait Times
How would you use a system like this to be flexible based on different attendance days and how would you therefore inform the guests? For instance, Soarin' may have 200 min waits on New Years Eve, but on a random slow day in September may only have a 40 min wait or even less. Then you have to combat how to explain to so many different cultures and languages that even though the park is open, the ride may have distributed all it's return times for the day. 5pm sounds lucky for a busy summer day, imagine Easter! Could they be out as early as 1pm?! What if you are a first time visitor and lack of knowledge, choose to experience the other side of Future World first and miss out completely. Not to mention which attractions use this procedure and which ones don't like Living with the Land.
DAS Cards
Oh, didn't we also have a recent problem with GAC cards being abused to skip lines. Looks like DAS was the answer with return times based on the current wait time. Well, how will DAS work if the wait time is supposed to be constant, but return times vary. What if they stop giving return times completely. Now explain that to a child with special needs.
Multiple Attraction Conflicts
What happens when you have two attractions like Test Track and Soarin who use this system and you get return times around the same time? You will still have to wait in line for a time period plus experience the attraction. How would you make it on time to the other? What happens if you lose the card? Normally you would have just waited in line, it wasn't like you were getting out of line and loosing your spot, but with this new return card, you technically are.
Confusion with Guests
Eventually if this become common place, you would think a machine with the ability to print a return time would be beneficial, but many of these capable machines are being removed. If you tie it in with MyDisneyExpereince or the FP+ Kiosks, guests WILL get confused on which is which.
A Scary Thought: 3 Different Lines?
What happens if we now get three lines? One where you have to stand in a line and wait until there is a free spot, another for those with return times, and another for those with Fastpass+. Dare I add single rider to the mix?
Way to much to explain to guests who want to know "is this a ride or a show" and "where are all the rides at". Too much stress, too much planning, too much explaining, too much thinking, and too much complaining.
Lab Rats
Congrats Disney, you found they way to trick guests but in the process completely destroy how society has been training to line up and wait to experience an attraction at a theme park. For a resort where a large chunk of visitors are actually first time visitors and for a resort experience that costs so much money to be a part of, you are gambling with people. Testing on human subjects as if their lab rats.
Downtimes/Delays
The return windows at Anna & Elsa were only 30 min time windows. I assume Soarin's test was the same. A portion of guests already have a hard time making it in an hour time window for Fastpass. Then when they do enter Standby+, they wait about 30-40 minutes. Who's to say that with an attraction that that wait will be accurate or guaranteed? What if there is a downtime or delay that affects both Fastpass+ and Standby+ to the point that Standby+ results in an hour wait? Wasn't the point of the new standby return times to reduce time spent in a line?
Starving an Attraction of Guests?
Another problem is counting on people to return as well. If people decide to leave the park early or can't make their return window, that spot is now wasted for someone who would have wanted it when they run out. If you experience enough of this problem, the hovering Standby+ wait will then decrease as well. You can see it in Fastpass+ time windows sometimes. There are times that aren't as popular and thus standby moves much quicker. Not enough Standby+ and not enough Fastpass+ may result in very short yet significant periods where they could quite possibly not have enough people to fill the attractions capacity yet you may still have people wanting to experience it.
Attendance & Wait Times
How would you use a system like this to be flexible based on different attendance days and how would you therefore inform the guests? For instance, Soarin' may have 200 min waits on New Years Eve, but on a random slow day in September may only have a 40 min wait or even less. Then you have to combat how to explain to so many different cultures and languages that even though the park is open, the ride may have distributed all it's return times for the day. 5pm sounds lucky for a busy summer day, imagine Easter! Could they be out as early as 1pm?! What if you are a first time visitor and lack of knowledge, choose to experience the other side of Future World first and miss out completely. Not to mention which attractions use this procedure and which ones don't like Living with the Land.
DAS Cards
Oh, didn't we also have a recent problem with GAC cards being abused to skip lines. Looks like DAS was the answer with return times based on the current wait time. Well, how will DAS work if the wait time is supposed to be constant, but return times vary. What if they stop giving return times completely. Now explain that to a child with special needs.
Multiple Attraction Conflicts
What happens when you have two attractions like Test Track and Soarin who use this system and you get return times around the same time? You will still have to wait in line for a time period plus experience the attraction. How would you make it on time to the other? What happens if you lose the card? Normally you would have just waited in line, it wasn't like you were getting out of line and loosing your spot, but with this new return card, you technically are.
Confusion with Guests
Eventually if this become common place, you would think a machine with the ability to print a return time would be beneficial, but many of these capable machines are being removed. If you tie it in with MyDisneyExpereince or the FP+ Kiosks, guests WILL get confused on which is which.
A Scary Thought: 3 Different Lines?
What happens if we now get three lines? One where you have to stand in a line and wait until there is a free spot, another for those with return times, and another for those with Fastpass+. Dare I add single rider to the mix?
Way to much to explain to guests who want to know "is this a ride or a show" and "where are all the rides at". Too much stress, too much planning, too much explaining, too much thinking, and too much complaining.
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disney4life2008
Well-Known Member
Excellent point. It seems that the trend here (and even from FP+) is to encourage guests to ride once and move on - and that move on is the freedom to swipe the MB to shop and eat. While the addition of the rolling FP+ has been added - in most cases than not - its a joke. It seems that the attractions that are available later in the day are the very ones that do not need FP+ in the first place. And to complicate matters - now that FP+ is an option - the standby waits for these attractions has no increased. I was appalled in January when SSE was 50 minutes - WHAT? Pirates was 45 minutes - NEVER. Haunted Mansion was 60 minutes.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
I think the end game is everyone getting return times for more and more attractions. The over scheduling of your day is a great benefit for Disney, but the reality is it's just a repackaging of what's there. This is burying the lead: They need to add new rides, not try to find new ways to sell what's already there.
disney4life2008
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Someone mentioned earlier that everything TDO has done in the last 3 to 4 years has been a test ends up becoming a reality. I do not doubt that this is the new standard that will be implemented by years end but it just makes no sense to me. If someone chooses to wait in the standby line for major attractions - let them. They are fixing assumed problems that have no problems from the start. As someone else said- they need to build more attractions - especially at EPCOT and HS - this will level the playing field. But at EPCOT when their only major attraction is Soarin - this becomes problematic. While TT and MS are headliners - they could both disappear tomorrow and most would be not be affected.
Macca250
Well-Known Member
I can see it now - guest walks up to the attraction entrance at 5pm, CM gives them a return time.
CM: Come back between 8:30 and 9:00, you've got the last return window of the day.
Guest: Will I have enough time to watch tonight's fireworks?
CM: (EVIL LAUGH)
Nmoody1
Well-Known Member
The way I see it is this... In the early days of old fast pass (oh how we miss you), return times were never that far away... You could have got another ride in and maybe some time for a snack or a shop.... Disney even promoted the system as a way to shop or explore instead of waiting in line. Then Fastpass got greedy and you could get a few attractions in, merch was so expensive (and generic now) that there was no need to look. Now fast pass+ has come along and people are waiting so long in standby lines (many which used to be minimal wait... Pirates anyone?) and people just aren't snapping up those vinylmations or a Disney Parks mug, presented in a bag with a Disneyland's castle on it! So, now you get a return time of 30 minutes... Aside from mermaid, is there any attraction now with a wait less than 30 minutes? (Nice work TDO).
In theory this is a bit like the virtual queue for Dumbo... Only there is no themed play area with air conditioning.... Just shops and food readily available for sale... Probably with Olaf on somewhere.
Look out for a special up charge event coming to WDW soon (hooray... Another one). Where you get to pay to experience a Disney park how it used to be ,,. Standby lines, park exclusive merchandise, paper fast pass tickets And a shuttle bus to the adventurers club when you are done!
In theory this is a bit like the virtual queue for Dumbo... Only there is no themed play area with air conditioning.... Just shops and food readily available for sale... Probably with Olaf on somewhere.
Look out for a special up charge event coming to WDW soon (hooray... Another one). Where you get to pay to experience a Disney park how it used to be ,,. Standby lines, park exclusive merchandise, paper fast pass tickets And a shuttle bus to the adventurers club when you are done!
Longhairbear
Well-Known Member
I was reading posts on other Disney sights, specifically DVC ones. They ain't too happy about the Return Cards for Soarin', and the Frozen M&G. Nor are they happy about planning ahead, and reserving attractions on FP+.
More than a lot are bemoaning no new attractions, and plan on skipping WDW for a few years. The hard core DVC crowd is planning on skipping a few years... um, is TWDC seeing these new posts? I'm DVC, and we have already skipped 4 years at WDW, because there is nothing new( not flying across the country to see a Gaston water feature) to make us plan a vacation at WDW.
More than a few say they are staying at their DVC, but going to Universal. Of course the anti UNI crowd chimes in, spreading lies about the quality of UNI. The crux of all this is the whole planning ahead vibe that Disney is promoting is backfiring according to what I am reading. Or at the very least, not at all popular with the DVC crowd that sometimes tend to be less Commando style of doing the parks. And TWDC is adding more units for this crowd....
More than a lot are bemoaning no new attractions, and plan on skipping WDW for a few years. The hard core DVC crowd is planning on skipping a few years... um, is TWDC seeing these new posts? I'm DVC, and we have already skipped 4 years at WDW, because there is nothing new( not flying across the country to see a Gaston water feature) to make us plan a vacation at WDW.
More than a few say they are staying at their DVC, but going to Universal. Of course the anti UNI crowd chimes in, spreading lies about the quality of UNI. The crux of all this is the whole planning ahead vibe that Disney is promoting is backfiring according to what I am reading. Or at the very least, not at all popular with the DVC crowd that sometimes tend to be less Commando style of doing the parks. And TWDC is adding more units for this crowd....
Bolt
Well-Known Member
You show them, DVC Members! Nothing like signing a 50 year contract and then not showing up, oh wait...
disneydudette
Well-Known Member
Great example... and a likely scenerio. Guests spent the day at another park, hop over to ride Soarin', make a 7p ADR, and watch Illuminations at 9p...
At least with the "old" ticket system... you had the OPTION to wait in line for 90mins or return during your window to "front of the line" if still available. Now you're basically told... to return in 3hrs... to then still wait another 30-40mins.
That's unacceptable to me.
In October, our DHS plan is to grab a late morning FP+ for TSM... arriving at "Rope Drop"... and riding RnRC as many times as possible prior to that return time.
In it's current test... at one point are tickets distributed? 9a? 10a? Could we walk up at 9a and be "turned away" with a paper pass to return at 10a? To still wait 30mins upon return?