The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[WildcatDen]

I do. But there hasn't been much good news of late.

I am going to petition Steve to change the name to "Bad News and Rumors" and in small print, "You want good news, go to the Universal section"

 

[LondonGopher]

Repeat after me: WDW Co. is a real estate development and hotel/timeshare management company with theme parks as ANCILLARY businesses. I have been preaching this for at least a dozen years now.

This is the VITAL point to understand. Think of Ray Kroc..."McDonald's is not in the HAMBURGER business, it's in the REAL ESTATE business."

Was this Walt's dream for WDW? No. Does ubiquitous DVC improve the WDW guest's experience? No. Is the shift from a parks-and-resorts-focused model to a real estate-focused model good in the short term for shareholders? Yes.

As lovers of what WDW once was...we MUST ask ourselves...is the $$$ I am about to spend reinforcing or working against the real-estate model?

And an aside...when we stayed at BCV in 2012, our one-bedroom was grubby and rusty. When I asked for additional linens (the ones on the sofa-bed were stained), it was a major production to get them. It never occurred to me that this, too, could be a legacy of DVC.

By contrast, when up at History Live! at Kelmarsh (Northamptonshire) this past weekend, we stayed at a Best Western in Corby (ah...Corby, the armpit of the Midlands...). My son put his backpack on the Z-bed (rollaway in American?) and one of the wooden slats cracked. We went shamefacedly down to Reception to report it.

Response from Reception at 23:00: Madam, I'm so sorry. The hotel is full and we don't have any extra Z-beds but the carpenter will come up first thing tomorrow and fix it. If the bed isn't usable tonight, I'll send someone over to Tesco now to buy an airbed for your son to use.

The bed was usable. They fixed it the next day (while we were at breakfast). Best Western...Corby...£61 a night, included brekkie for 3. It's not rocket science...

Sorry for the long post, but this is a topic that makes me see red...

 

[polynesiangirl]

Just wanted to throw this out there - not all people staying at the deluxe or DVC resorts are "people of Walmart." In fact, I don't think resort category at WDW makes a difference, since money doesn't buy class (many WDW guests are missing the latter regardless of the resort they're staying at). From my own experience, I've seen some serious jerks at Ritz-Carltons and Four Seasons hotels, and the fact that they're wearing designer polos doesn't mean I respect them more.

Thank you. I completely track with many of the concerns raised in this thread about the spread of DVC and the general decline of WDW's product, but come on. My in-laws are DVC members and they are about as far from "People of Walmart" as one can possibly get. They are educated professionals with advanced degrees.

With respect to the news in this thread, ugh. The crazy thing to me is that aside from my in-laws, I know ZERO DVC members in real life. None. Many people I have mentioned it to in the years since they bought in didn't even know Disney HAS a timeshare program. Can they possibly be selling enough memberships to justify creating so many units? Evidently, yes, but man...it's kind of shocking to me. I cannot believe there are that many people out there who can even afford it.

 

[NewfieFan]

They can't. And that's the problem.

From 1991-2000, DVC amounted to four resorts, two of which were not even at WDW, one not even in the state of Florida. Since then ... well, take a look. I know DVCers hate this, but the increase in their ranks has come right along with the Walmarting of WDW and the parks getting stale and neglected. I wish the DVC rank and file started a campaign to bring change to WDW. I'd certainly help them. But I get the feeling that even those unhappy, the ones who stay at WDW but visit UNI instead, just are apathetic about things.

Haven't read the whole thread (mainly because an 8 month old tends to take up a large chunk of your day) but...
Who's says they're apathetic? Maybe they have no idea where to start such a campaign and how to give it momentum!

 

[GrammieBee]

I am, in no way, defending Disney as lack of room maintainance is a real problem. But I have to wonder just how difficult it is to keep up with maintainance due to the sheer number of hotel and villa rooms, possible lack of qualified maintainance people, and the carelessness of many of the guests. We are probably in agreement that many of the guests will not take care of the resort furnishings and features. Plus a certain number of guests can actually be quite destructive.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I am, in no way, defending Disney as lack of room maintainance is a real problem. But I have to wonder just how difficult it is to keep up with maintainance due to the sheer number of hotel and villa rooms, possible lack of qualified maintainance people, and the carelessness of many of the guests. We are probably in agreement that many of the guests will not take care of the resort furnishings and features. Plus a certain number of guests can actually be quite destructive.

That is an excuse. Disney just doesn't want to pay for more than the minimum because plenty still gush about the magic. The culture of Disney pride just doesn't exist in the upper echelons.

 

[Kamikaze]

How sad. If you only look for negatives, all you will find are negatives.

If all that exist are negatives, that is all you will find. Its a news and rumors section, so anything pre-existing is thereby not counted as a positive. Everything rumored and planned, by and large, are not positives. If anything, I can see a few 'neutrals'. But negatives abound.

I am, in no way, defending Disney as lack of room maintainance is a real problem. But I have to wonder just how difficult it is to keep up with maintainance due to the sheer number of hotel and villa rooms, possible lack of qualified maintainance people, and the carelessness of many of the guests. We are probably in agreement that many of the guests will not take care of the resort furnishings and features. Plus a certain number of guests can actually be quite destructive.

You're deluding yourself if you don't think this isn't always the way it was. Yes, that destructive minority may be larger now than in the past, but it always existed.

Personally I always loved the stories about a burned out lightbulb being replaced overnight. These days it seems we'd be lucky if the burned out bulb isn't just removed and covered over.

 

[wm49rs]

I am, in no way, defending Disney as lack of room maintainance is a real problem. But I have to wonder just how difficult it is to keep up with maintainance due to the sheer number of hotel and villa rooms, possible lack of qualified maintainance people, and the carelessness of many of the guests. We are probably in agreement that many of the guests will not take care of the resort furnishings and features. Plus a certain number of guests can actually be quite destructive.

Disney takes great pride in displaying their quarterly profits on a regular basis. Having just a little of those monies find their way back into housekeeping would go a long ways towards addressing some of these issues....

 

[The Mom]

You have all been warned to stay on topic. All it takes is one person drifting off just a "little" and before you know it half a dozen people follow him/her. Please stop.

 

[GrammieBee]

I am, in no way, defending Disney as lack of room maintainance is a real problem. But I have to wonder just how difficult it is to keep up with maintainance due to the sheer number of hotel and villa rooms, possible lack of qualified maintainance people, and the carelessness of many of the guests. We are probably in agreement that many of the guests will not take care of the resort furnishings and features. Plus a certain number of guests can actually be quite destructive.

Sorry. I seem to have opened a can of worms. Most things come in different shades of grey, but, hey, let's all stick it to Disney. I shall respectfully retreat and enjoy our vacations with The Mouse.

We have been going to WDW off and on for over forty years and are well aware of how it was, how it is now and in all the years between. We make no excuses for Disney and certainly do not agree with all that they do or don't do, but it is still, for us, a fun place to be.

 

[Cesar R M]

Everyone can rent a taxi though, and there are plenty of hotels very nearby (some in walking distance to Disney Springs) that are better quality than Deluxe Disney hotels, but cost much less, even when including the cab money.

the point is, why rent a car/taxi if buses are free?
adding who knows how many money to an already expensive vacation? no thanks.

 

[Jeffxz]

the point is, why rent a car/taxi if buses are free?
adding who knows how many money to an already expensive vacation? no thanks.

Disney busses are only free in terms of dollars.
They can cost quite a bit in terms of time it takes to use them and the discomfort they can cause.

Standing on a 45 minute bus ride from the MK at the end of the night? No Thanks.
Having DME get me to the airport 2+ hours early for a flight and sit around waiting? No Thanks.

 

[DougK]

the point is, why rent a car/taxi if buses are free?
adding who knows how many money to an already expensive vacation? no thanks.

One of the benefits of renting a car is financial. We can eat at regular restaurants instead of very expensive Disney restaurants. On a 10 day vacation we save way more on food than the cost of the rental car, and I drive a full-size rental because I am six-four and not comfortable in a tiny car.

On top of the savings we also never have to wait for a stupid bus.

Some people like the idea of not having to drive while on vacation, and I respect that. After all it is your money. But driving around Disney World and the surrounding area does not bother me at all. Plus I have yet to find the Disney bus that goes to Diagon Alley!

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

What is it that people keep going off topic about? All I see is talk about Disney resorts?!? Confused...

It is possible the offending posts were deleted to try to keep things on track.

I don't really understand the difference between on topic and off topic in this thread. The Spirit has brought up how deluxe resort and DVC guests shop at Walmart and lack class, and that this is related to the "Walmarting" of Disney's resorts. I responded to that notion and my post was deleted.

Maybe a mod (or the Spirit himself) could set a boundary of what's "on topic"? I'm not trying to cause trouble, but the line doesn't seem clear to me.

 

[BrerJon]

You have all been warned to stay on topic. All it takes is one person drifting off just a "little" and before you know it half a dozen people follow him/her. Please stop.

What is the topic? I thought it was discussing the plans to convert regular hotel rooms into DVC, and the reasons, benefits and consequences behind it. Almost every post I've seen is about that, or related to it, yet every other page you warn people about committing the terrifying crime of drifting off-topic so I assume the real topic is something else - but there are no clues about that in the current thread title.

So for those who don't have time to read 60 pages, if it's so important for this thread to stay about one thing, why not rename the thread title to make it clear what that one thing is instead of everyone having to guess, then being threatened when they get it wrong.

 

[BrerJon]

the point is, why rent a car/taxi if buses are free?
adding who knows how many money to an already expensive vacation? no thanks.

Because the buses aren't free, just included in the exorbitant room fees! If you pay $200 dollars more than an equivalent hotel off-site, for a room that takes the same time to get to, just to use a free bus instead of a $40 taxi, you're wallet is still down $160 dollars.

 

[xdan0920]

Real quick...

The topic is, TDO is cannibalizing one of it's signature resorts to make more DVC villas. Most of us seem to agree this is BAD news, and indicative of a deep seeded management culture that is adversely affecting WDW. The topic may have run out of steam a bit, and that's fine. Let the thread simmer. Eventually, someone, wether it's 74 or Lee or @George, or whoever, will come through, and post something that spurs the discussion on.

A lot of people are just posting because they want to post, OMG, it's so important for me to post!!!!


Edit to add....

If you don't like the way this forum is moderated, then go somewhere else to post your super important, super interesting, thoughts.

 

[Cesar R M]

One of the benefits of renting a car is financial. We can eat at regular restaurants instead of very expensive Disney restaurants. On a 10 day vacation we save way more on food than the cost of the rental car, and I drive a full-size rental because I am six-four and not comfortable in a tiny car.

On top of the savings we also never have to wait for a stupid bus.

Some people like the idea of not having to drive while on vacation, and I respect that. After all it is your money. But driving around Disney World and the surrounding area does not bother me at all. Plus I have yet to find the Disney bus that goes to Diagon Alley!

Disney busses are only free in terms of dollars.
They can cost quite a bit in terms of time it takes to use them and the discomfort they can cause.

Standing on a 45 minute bus ride from the MK at the end of the night? No Thanks.
Having DME get me to the airport 2+ hours early for a flight and sit around waiting? No Thanks.

Let's say we agree to disagree.

My point as an international tourist: I definitively do not want to deal with the driving regulations or the dangers of not knowing how to drive in the disney or Orlando area. (nor do I have a permit to drive in the US, I do not know the requirements!)

as for DME.. Id rather wait 15 to 20 minutes for the BUS.. than having to shell 50+ USD each way to get only me and my companion to Disney World and then back to the Hotel.

I do not see these "time constraints" since I'm already THERE with NOTHING ELSE TO DO.
I usually plan my trips very carefully... I still do not see the rush mentality of many tourist ( I go to visit, learn, view and relax, not to rush into everything )

Because the buses aren't free, just included in the exorbitant room fees! If you pay $200 dollars extra for a room that takes the same time to get to, just to use a bus instead of a $20 taxi, you're actually paying $180 for that bus.

Dunno but I dont do disney "Deluxe" and I get discounts on everything.

and as I explained before, car rentals arent for me.. and taxis are way too expensive.

 

[BrerJon]

Dunno but I dont do disney "Deluxe" and I get discounts on everything.

Ah the original point was about why people choose to pay $500 a night for sub-standard Deluxe resorts instead of far cheaper and far nicer hotels off-property, but still very close (LBV area), and what they gain from doing so. If you don't stay Deluxe, then this doesn't apply.

 

[Brian Noble]

the point is, why rent a car/taxi if buses are free?
adding who knows how many money to an already expensive vacation? no thanks.

I can think of two potential reasons.

One: the combination of paying for a (nicer but much less expensive) offsite room + transportation is less expensive in total than staying onsite and using the included "free" transportation. I can usually stay in a very nice 2BR condo offsite, plus pay for a rental car, gas, and daily theme park parking, for something between the cost of a Value and a Moderate. If I were traveling solo, this might not matter, but my family doesn't consider (small) hotel rooms to be "vacation." Others might, so YMMV.

Two: people value their time and convenience, not just their dollars. You can save money on a Disney vacation, or you can save time. You usually can't save both. And, driving most places will save you time over the course of your vacation. I most often rent a car even when I'm staying onsite, for this very reason. We had a rental car for our stay at BLT this past April, and used it nearly every day.