A Spirited Valentine ...

[ford91exploder]

And as to the effect of stock buybacks

Disney would have been better off burning the cash as it at least would have provided fuel for the campfires instead of actually LOSING value.

 

[Princess Leia]

Maui made his Disney Park debut at Shanghai Disney recently.

Huh. After what happened stateside (controversy over Maui costumes), I'm a little surprised, but if they found someone who looks like him, good for Disney.

 

[Bocabear]

While I'm firmly in the "boat is still taking on water" mindset of the state of WDW (even if there is a flurry of new activity in the swamps), I want to be perfectly clear about one thing - SWL will not let the masses down. While there will always be those that fail to be impressed by anything, the goals to which SWL is striving are set way too high to not impress. The land itself is an E-ticket on a level beyond what Diagon Alley achieved. The level of immersion will be unlike anything ever seen in a theme park. Going beyond that, the Falcon will delight and offer up to the most casual fan an incredibly seamless take on what it would be like to step aboard one of the most iconic space ships in pop culture history and take her for a spin. Then there is the big mama jamma - the soon to be named Battle/Escape/First Order/Resistance/Alcatraz. This is where I can't imagine anyone being disappointed. It has everything you'd want in a modern spin on a Disney attraction. We can always lament the loss of the cute beast of burden transport, the placement of the land within Disneyland, or just more IP in general... the discussions about the quality that will shine through when it opens should be minimal at worst.

Now, going back to the state of things in WDW. I just spent my second week in 2017 on property and the place is still run like that kid of yours that you know can get straight A's and continues to bring home D's and C's and then wants all sins forgiven for getting another couple A's(Pandora and Happily Ever After). When you take a look at WDW closely, you see where they continue to struggle in comparison to what you know they can achieve. I KNOW WDW can do better. It's just that they choose not to and that's my fear for SWL. They are being handed an A+ in SWL and yet those in power kicked and screamed like children dragging their feet over the 3rd attraction and the costs. My fear is that once SWL opens the TDO mentality will kick in and we will see some of the immersion get dropped. Those CM's in character in the streets - too expensive to staff. Those droids and aliens wandering around - too expensive to maintain. The only silver lining is that Burbank at least forced the Land, Big Bird, and Alcatraz on them, so even if WDW decides that "those costumes are too hot for Orlando" or "those droids were too unreliable in the Florida weather", we will still be left with a great looking land with two great attractions.

I think you have drunk the Kool-ade... Your pronouncements for a project that has shown little more than romanticized views of rocks and some stormtroopers seems a little over the top. I have been to Pandora... It's nice... It was also hyped as the most amazing thing since sliced bread... I font it pretty but fails to reach the hype they set up for themselves... The Boatride was nice... The FOP was actually very good, but it was so heavily marketed the expectations for the final product are already too high... StarWarsLand is going to be the same thng...I am sure it will be solid, though I find the land itself looks like little more than a bunch of rocks with a space ship... not too engaging...The Star Wars stories and characters were great, but the worlds they lived in are less interesting than Pandora...

 

[FigmentJedi]

Huh. After what happened stateside (controversy over Maui costumes), I'm a little surprised, but if they found someone who looks like him, good for Disney.

Maui is a mask character.

 

[Princess Leia]

Maui is a mask character.

Eh.....
I get why they did it (Maui's not a small-figured guy), but yet... That's a little offputting.

 

[Donald Razorduck]

I really wouldn't trust Breitbart as a source.

Breitbart is more trustworthy than CNN these days.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

I think you have drunk the Kool-ade... Your pronouncements for a project that has shown little more than romanticized views of rocks and some stormtroopers seems a little over the top. I have been to Pandora... It's nice... It was also hyped as the most amazing thing since sliced bread... I font it pretty but fails to reach the hype they set up for themselves... The Boatride was nice... The FOP was actually very good, but it was so heavily marketed the expectations for the final product are already too high... StarWarsLand is going to be the same thng...I am sure it will be solid, though I find the land itself looks like little more than a bunch of rocks with a space ship... not too engaging...The Star Wars stories and characters were great, but the worlds they lived in are less interesting than Pandora...

Pandora is nice. I shared some of my thoughts on it buried somewhere on this board. I've never proclaimed it the pinnacle of design and as a matter of fact, I placed it on the level of Hogsmeade and not approaching Cars Land or Diagon Alley with the latter still the best Stateside example of design. River Journey is like Frozen Ever After in that the quality is not the problem... it's the quantity. Seven spins on Flight of Passage were enough for me to come to grips with it being the best simulator around; but, simulators always have diminishing returns on repeat visits. Still, it's a great attraction and one that adds nicely to roster. Beyond that, Pandora just doesn't have the great vistas that transported me away into another world the way the aforementioned Lands in modern theme park design have done as easily. It also suffers a penalty of being a jungle based environment that is set in a heavily vegetated park in a tropical climate.

The Star Wars worlds have never been the interesting things in the films as other than Coruscant and Naboo from the prequels and maybe Bespin from the OT, they have always been backwater worlds with one foot firmly planted in our own practical Earth on purpose. Lucas' used universe has had the fantasy of the environment take back seat to the inhabitants. It was the aliens, droids, and denizens of the locations the films visited that made the films feel exotic and other worldly. This was a conscious choice in the design handbook by which SW was created to provide the audience some familiarity to the fantasy. Trowbridge and company understand this and that is why the secret sauce of SWL will be this layer of immersion that the streetmosphere will play. It's going to be part Renaissance fair in space. The actual set pieces of the land will either "connect" with guests or it won't. For every big ticket display item, like a spaceship, there will be several smaller nooks and crannies to explore (markets and shops). Besides the obvious Potter influences, the team at WDI also looked at New Orleans Square as a influence. We should hopefully see that guiding hand as we wander around the Land. Think Diagon Alley in space.

I've been saying a bit too much recently and really should to keep quiet at least until after D23. The lid will open a bit wider then and things will come further into focus - just don't expect full details. I just don't want the anticipointment that some had for Pandora to rub off on SWL. SWL addresses the areas where Pandora doesn't quite hit it out of the park with better attractions, more interaction with the environment, and feeling more alien (although, I do really, really like Pandora).

 

[GoofGoof]

Personally I think SWL is going to be a disappointment

No way...shocking at least you have finally come around and acknowledge it's actually coming to WDW

This is what I fear as well, SWL was ALREADY chopped back by TDO from 3 attractions to TWO, Where in reality a range of A to E attractions with a count of 6-8 was what was NEEDED for SWL.

6 to 8 attractions is a full park these days
Seriously though. It wasn't really chopped down from 3 to 2. It's been 2 rides for a long while now, since before ground broke. Maybe in some blue sky work up there was a 3rd ride, but it's not like the land was designed and the plans changed during construction. If we lost our minds over every idea WDI came up with that ended up not built we'd pretty much always be disappointed

I'm OK with 2 rides although I think the crowds will be huge and difficult for a while after opening. I think they could have probably used a 3rd attraction that was either a walk through or something minor like a SW based peoplemover to eat up some of the crowds but I'd rather have the 2 E tickets and not have the lesser ride. 6 to 8 attractions would have been overkill. It's not a Star Wars park just a land within the park. Even Harry Potter at Universal is only 3 new rides plus 2 repurposed ones and that's in 2 separate parks and done in 2 phases. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I'm glad they decided on doing both SW Land and Toy Story Land instead of just 1 larger SW Land with 2 additional C ticket rides. I'm glad they didn't throw in a spinner or low end ride to SW Land. Keep it high end.

One thing I think they could have done if they wanted more SW in DHS is take out the Muppet Courtyard area and connect SW Land with Star Tours. You would then have 3 actual e-tickets within the land plus they could redo the muppet theater into a SW based 3D movie or updated Jedi Training Academy and re-theme the restaurants. It wouldn't cost much to redo the outside of the buildings and would make the land bigger plus you save Star Tours which seems to be on the chopping block once SW Land opens. Then add Muppets in animation courtyard area with a real E-ticket dark ride and a restaurant/shop.

 

[Nubs70]

The ONE thing that will really benefit Whole Foods is I imagine that Amazon will apply its skills in distribution and warehouse operations to Whole Foods distribution network.

Amazon purchased the IP that is Whole Foods and by which Amazon will create organic growth through innovation.

 

[Bocabear]

I liked Pandora as well...but it feels like 2/3 of a land...not quite complete...and somewhat vacant...it just needs more. Had the boat ride been longer, that would have helped...a third attraction would have also helped.
I hope you are right about SWL, but at this moment, I am seeing another Pandora...
The comparison to Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade doesn't quite work for me since these are known locations from the films... fully romanticized and fleshed out... The location for SWL is not a location that everyone knows...Not a location we are all familiar with... So that is a hurdle to overcome. From what I have seen, the land is a rock facade...are there other buildings? Is it architecturally interesting? I don't know, I have only seen a rockscape so far... Hopefully we will know more after yet another D23 releasing very little information....

 

[KrazyKat]

Maui is a mask character.

WOW, is he the size of M&G Baymax? Looks like an action figure on a shelf.

 

[RoysCabin]

I wonder if part of the challenge when designing areas themed after entire IPs is that a lot of your park-going crowd could have preconceived notions of what would count as "Star Wars" or as "Avatar" or what have you, whereas broader themes (like Adventureland, Future World, Sunset Boulevard, Main Street, etc.) allow the crowd to go in with, potentially, a mind that's already inclined toward being a bit more open. As stated above, Potter was an exception: that world was fully fleshed out in terms of even some of the smallest details, given that you had seven books and a heap of movies largely based around a lot of the same locations. Star Wars offers a challenge in that the worlds themselves are secondary to what happens on them. This can be good for theme park designers, as there are less minute details to have to get just right, or a challenge in that they have to create something that doesn't clash against the audience's preconceived notions.

It's an interesting topic, and I'm sure SWL will be cool, but I do think it's another reason to lean toward more broadly themed park areas.

Breitbart is more trustworthy than CNN these days.

Let's not go down this road, please.

 

[seascape]

I wonder if part of the challenge when designing areas themed after entire IPs is that a lot of your park-going crowd could have preconceived notions of what would count as "Star Wars" or as "Avatar" or what have you, whereas broader themes (like Adventureland, Future World, Sunset Boulevard, Main Street, etc.) allow the crowd to go in with, potentially, a mind that's already inclined toward being a bit more open. As stated above, Potter was an exception: that world was fully fleshed out in terms of even some of the smallest details, given that you had seven books and a heap of movies largely based around a lot of the same locations. Star Wars offers a challenge in that the worlds themselves are secondary to what happens on them. This can be good for theme park designers, as there are less minute details to have to get just right, or a challenge in that they have to create something that doesn't clash against the audience's preconceived notions.

It's an interesting topic, and I'm sure SWL will be cool, but I do think it's another reason to lean toward more broadly themed park areas.



Let's not go down this road, please.

Unfortunately, CNN is no longer the news agency that Ted Turner founded. It is now like the rest of them, only after ratings and not a very good source of actual news. I hate to say it but the best source of television news was actually Aljazeera America. I originally thought they would be terrible but they were good and better then CNN, FOX or MSNBC.

 

[GoofGoof]

Unfortunately, CNN is no longer the news agency that Ted Turner founded. It is now like the rest of them, only after ratings and not a very good source of actual news. I hate to say it but the best source of television news was actually Aljazeera America. I originally thought they would be terrible but they were good and better then CNN, FOX or MSNBC.

News is dead. I blame Twitter and social media in general. Nobody wants straight up news anymore. All those networks are more entertainment than news. It's just like ESPN now. In the past you could tune into ESPN and hear actual sports news and genuine discussions with experts. Now it's like watching the WWE. Guys barking and screaming at each other with talking heads playing roles. News has followed in those footsteps. Fox News was always supposed to be an alternative presentation of traditional news but the other networks have followed their lead and they are all full of garbage these days. Since everyone gets their "news" whether it's sports or politics or the weather from Twitter or Facebook or the internet somewhere entertainment has replaced real news programs on TV.

 

[GoofGoof]

I liked Pandora as well...but it feels like 2/3 of a land...not quite complete...and somewhat vacant...it just needs more. Had the boat ride been longer, that would have helped...a third attraction would have also helped.
I hope you are right about SWL, but at this moment, I am seeing another Pandora...
The comparison to Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade doesn't quite work for me since these are known locations from the films... fully romanticized and fleshed out... The location for SWL is not a location that everyone knows...Not a location we are all familiar with... So that is a hurdle to overcome. From what I have seen, the land is a rock facade...are there other buildings? Is it architecturally interesting? I don't know, I have only seen a rockscape so far... Hopefully we will know more after yet another D23 releasing very little information....

You may have missed some of the art. Based on the concept art released there's a lot of rockwork, but the land isn't going to be like Pandora where the rocks are the main feature. Pandora was intentionally made to look natural with a minimal influence of humans. There's only a handful of hints that humans were even present there. Star Wars Land appears to be a spaceport filled with lots of buildings woven into the rock. There's a marketplace and a Cantina and the port area where the falcon sits. It doesn't appear to be just rockwork with the rides hidden inside like Pandora. On the flip side it won't be a replica of a street in London like Potterland since it's still a spaceport on a distant planet that exists in the SW Universe so there won't be a traditional urban feel to it.

From a distance this looks like a lot of rock:

But when you get a closer up look it's a lot of buildings built into the rock with a lot of details:

The interior features also have a lot of potential to be extremely detailed. Here's some concept art of the market and Cantina

Hopefully the land comes out looking as good as the concept art.

 

[RoysCabin]

Unfortunately, CNN is no longer the news agency that Ted Turner founded. It is now like the rest of them, only after ratings and not a very good source of actual news. I hate to say it but the best source of television news was actually Aljazeera America. I originally thought they would be terrible but they were good and better then CNN, FOX or MSNBC.

You'll brook no disagreement with me on your larger point (I teach civics, discussing the state of current media is a pretty big deal in that field these days), and I really miss Al-Jazeera America, but I'm just referring to people bringing up explicitly partisan sites and whatnot, just probably not a great idea for this part of the boards.

 

[The_Jobu]

You may have missed some of the art. Based on the concept art released there's a lot of rockwork, but the land isn't going to be like Pandora where the rocks are the main feature. Pandora was intentionally made to look natural with a minimal influence of humans. There's only a handful of hints that humans were even present there. Star Wars Land appears to be a spaceport filled with lots of buildings woven into the rock. There's a marketplace and a Cantina and the port area where the falcon sits. It doesn't appear to be just rockwork with the rides hidden inside like Pandora. On the flip side it won't be a replica of a street in London like Potterland since it's still a spaceport on a distant planet that exists in the SW Universe so there won't be a traditional urban feel to it.

From a distance this looks like a lot of rock:
View attachment 212564

But when you get a closer up look it's a lot of buildings built into the rock with a lot of details:
View attachment 212563
View attachment 212566

The interior features also have a lot of potential to be extremely detailed. Here's some concept art of the market and Cantina
View attachment 212567
View attachment 212568
View attachment 212569
View attachment 212570
View attachment 212571

Hopefully the land comes out looking as good as the concept art.

If they actually have girls swimming in the aquarium behind the bar I'll be very impressed.

 

[GoofGoof]

If they actually have girls swimming in the aquarium behind the bar I'll be very impressed.

The job is posted on the hub already...they are holding tryouts to see who can hold their breath the longest

I am guessing that's one of those artistic touches that doesn't make it from the concept art to the actual land...unless they use an AA like the one in the FoP queue.

 

[The_Jobu]

Maui is a mask character.

And they wonder why some children cry when they meet characters...

 

[The_Jobu]

The job is posted on the hub already...they are holding tryouts to see who can hold their breath the longest

I am guessing that's one of those artistic touches that doesn't make it from the concept art to the actual land...unless they use an AA like the one in the FoP queue.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. Hey, it's possible right? Didn't they find some CMs to swim about as mermaids for 20k Under the Sea?