englanddg
One Little Spark...
Well that was silly. Haven't you ever seen the line for Rafiki's Planet Watch?
That's the place that REALLY needs FP+!
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FastPass+ restricted to 1 major attraction at Epcot
- Thread starter CTXRover
- Start date
That's the place that REALLY needs FP+!
JohnD
Well-Known Member
I almost believed you. I just checked. It doesn't FP+ but Character M&G and Primeval Whirl do. Oh boy! Makes me want to change my FP+ from Everest to one of those right now.
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Can't imagine Disney would fear that. There are tight caps on that type of award, typically limited to only what is is necessary to remedy the injustice. So taking Disney to court to gain 2 FPs?
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Funny isn't it. Disney said this is what guests were asking for, we wanted to plan every minute of our vacation to loose the stress. \\ Hating it more daily.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
As a business tool to drive upsells (i.e. to get customers to buy more), FP+ could work if WDW had the capacity at all of its theme parks. However, in order for FP+ to be effective, paying customers need to feel that their 3 FP+ choices are valuable, that those 3 selections are worth skipping a day at Universal where they are building some truly incredible attractions. Offering a FP+ selection for It’s Tough To Be A Bug is not valuable!
It seems corporate Disney is banking on customer ignorance, something increasingly difficult to do in today's information age.
WDW will see a bump in its numbers in 2014, which it will claim was because of MyMagic+. The reality is that Diagon Alley will drive all attendance trends in Orlando in 2014/2015 and WDW will simply see those who decide to round out their vacations with a couple of days at WDW.
Financially, the concept of FP+ could work very well after the opening of Pandora in DAK, Star Wars Land in DHS, and anything at Epcot. Until then, it’s simply syphoning off valuable resources that could have been used to actually improve the parks!
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
This should not be surprising as Disney seems to be looking to the DMV as the gold standard in customer service
randyrut
Active Member
Ok, so here is something I do not understand...
Disney is all about making money. So why have they not just attempted to do what Universal has done with their Express Pass? Make people pay an extremely massive amount of money to be able to skip the lines?
I know a lot of people hate that you can do that at Universal, but I personally love it, and no I am not uber-rich. Yes I make a comfortable living, but I feel the reward for my money is beyond worth it. I know they cannot do the same thing where Universal gives it to people staying at their properties as well, but they could just make people pay for it. I would gladly pay an extra 500 bucks for a week there to be able to go on all the rides without lines. I go once every year, and feel that getting on as many attractions is what is most important to me and my family.
I know a lot of people will hate this idea, but what Disney is doing has already made us change from our usual plan. We always just went to Universal for a day, and paid for the Express Pass. Now we are staying at Universal for 3 nights and only at Disney for 5. They have lost some of our money because of all the restrictions and planning. At least at Universal you can just go there and know you will get what you paid for.
Disney is all about making money. So why have they not just attempted to do what Universal has done with their Express Pass? Make people pay an extremely massive amount of money to be able to skip the lines?
I know a lot of people hate that you can do that at Universal, but I personally love it, and no I am not uber-rich. Yes I make a comfortable living, but I feel the reward for my money is beyond worth it. I know they cannot do the same thing where Universal gives it to people staying at their properties as well, but they could just make people pay for it. I would gladly pay an extra 500 bucks for a week there to be able to go on all the rides without lines. I go once every year, and feel that getting on as many attractions is what is most important to me and my family.
I know a lot of people will hate this idea, but what Disney is doing has already made us change from our usual plan. We always just went to Universal for a day, and paid for the Express Pass. Now we are staying at Universal for 3 nights and only at Disney for 5. They have lost some of our money because of all the restrictions and planning. At least at Universal you can just go there and know you will get what you paid for.
Weather_Lady
Well-Known Member
I follow your line of thinking, but I can't help but wonder if so many WDW guests view their visit as a "once in a lifetime" event that virtually everybody would fork over the extra cash for the "Express Pass," viewing it as a "must-have," and resulting in it no longer being able to provide a benefit. I tend to think of Universal as less of a "milestone for my family, no expense too great" place than WDW, but maybe I'm wrong.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
WDW’s problem all comes down to ride-to-room ratio.
Universal has 2 theme parks, both loaded with E-ticket attractions. Universal has 2400 onsite Deluxe Resort rooms. The 3 Deluxe Resorts are not owned by Universal; they are owned by Loews. Universal gets a cut of that and sells Express Pass to supplement income. Universal is in the theme park business.
Disneyland Resort (DLR) is similar. It has 2 theme parks, lots of attractions, and 2500 onsite rooms. DLR's main revenue comes from the theme parks. DLR also is in the theme park business.
WDW has one outstanding theme park and 3 that many treat as half-day parks. However, including the Swan, Dolphin, and Shades of Green, WDW has 31,000 rooms!
Many of those rooms sell for hundreds, even thousands of dollars per night.
Few realize it but WDW is no longer in the theme park business; it’s in the hotel and timeshare business.
At WDW, the big money is not to be found trying to convince guests to pay extra for FP/FP+, it’s in getting those hotel rooms filled!
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randyrut
Active Member
That all makes a lot of sense. I just wondered if they didnt include the passes for people staying at the resorts, but based on what you said, it makes sense not to do it.
AndyMagic
Well-Known Member
This is quite true. It is puzzling that upper-level executives don't seem to care that the current way the resort is doing business is unsustainable. Eventually vacancy rates will creep up and no amount of perks and promotions will be able to stop the bleeding. At some point they have to get back into the theme park business.
I had just booked all our FP+s for our upcoming trip when the new Epcot restrictions kicked in. I decided not to touch my Epcot plans. Then MDE somehow (possibly through my aunt doing online checkin, but also possibly through a glitch) unlinked my uncle's MDE profile from his room reservation (replacing FIRST M LAST--[complete with profile] with MIDDLE LAST--[who doesn't have a profile]) and deleted all his FP+ reservations.
The system let me copy my all FP+ reservations back to my uncle's account once I reassociated it with their room reservation--even the Epcot days which have multiple headliners both days. I still don't dare change anything else about Epcot, but I was pleasantly surprised I was able to fix this problem without a call to Disney (and really, that I was able to fix it at all!).
The system let me copy my all FP+ reservations back to my uncle's account once I reassociated it with their room reservation--even the Epcot days which have multiple headliners both days. I still don't dare change anything else about Epcot, but I was pleasantly surprised I was able to fix this problem without a call to Disney (and really, that I was able to fix it at all!).
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Because Universal has a larger number of high-volume E-ticket attractions along with significantly fewer onsite rooms, not only can they provide unlimited Express Pass to all onsite guests, but they even have enough spare ride capacity to sell Express Pass for cash to non-resort guests.
WDW cannot provide the equivalent of Universal's Express Pass to their onsite guests because WDW has too many rooms and not enough attractions. As we're seeing today, WDW has to limit FP+ selections because, at 3 of their parks, they don't even have enough good attraction capacity to satisfy all of their onsite guests. Forget about trying to sell excess capacity; they don't have it.
WDW could never do what Universal is doing because corporate Disney has lost its way, deciding that WDW is a hotel resort first with a few theme parks thrown in as an afterthought.
Maybe, just maybe, if they actually had enough attractions at all their parks, those 31,000 rooms would be filled.
From a theme park perspective, WDW is a mess. Roy Disney built one outstanding theme park 42 years ago and corporate Disney has been milking it ever since. If the Magic Kingdom somehow disappeared tomorrow, what remained of WDW would be a financial headache for corporate Disney.
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JerseyDad
Well-Known Member
.....on that note: When we were at POP at the end of August ...I'd say it (POP) was at only 80% occupancy ....because of course Art of Animation was newer and across the lake 2500' feet away (as the given reason from CM's that felt it necessary to surrender that info). Now ...POP was busting at the seems at the same exact week in 2012 ...and AoA was open at that time too. And ...this years "down" occupancy was also with a room discount promotion in play. There is something definitely wrong in the Disney machine ....and even the 'rank and file" workers there know it ....and are angry about it.
Hot Lava
Well-Known Member
Agree with those who say the room ratio would not allow this. Universal has hardly any rooms, especially compared to WDW. It just would not be feasible to give all WDW guests the same perk as Universal hotels.
And Universal has clearly kept in mind its delicate balance in building that new resort. You do not get front of the line access with that new Cabana Bay, as you do with the existing 3 hotels.
And Universal has clearly kept in mind its delicate balance in building that new resort. You do not get front of the line access with that new Cabana Bay, as you do with the existing 3 hotels.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Trouble is as noted by various Spirits on this board many of the deluxe resorts have greater than 50% of ther rooms out of service - GF being the prime candidate so TDO can keep room prices high.
Disney seems to be using the 'Fire your least profitable customers' model which has been discredited in business circles for quite a while now. Detroit learned this the hard way by two of the big 3 building almost nothing except giant SUV's instead of a full range of cars. When the market for giant SUV's went away the companies almost went away as well. The full range maker did ok.
007mickey
Well-Known Member
I secured my FP+ before the restrictions were in place and I actually think I'm going to avoid doing online check-in in fear of losing my FP+ reservations. With all the talk of "glitches" around here...it would be just my luck to lose everything and get stuck with nothing.
G00fyDad
Well-Known Member
Another way to look at the situation is...
FP+ has turned itself into a non-existent system for the most part. We have now been forced to go back to waiting in long standby lines. The old FP system would allow me to get a fastpass first thing in the morning for Space Mountain, and then another Fast Pass later on for Splash Mountain, and then another Fast Pass later for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Now we are reduced to a single E-ticket in a day, & a couple of rides that I probably wouldn't care to ride anyway.
FP+ has turned itself into a non-existent system for the most part. We have now been forced to go back to waiting in long standby lines. The old FP system would allow me to get a fastpass first thing in the morning for Space Mountain, and then another Fast Pass later on for Splash Mountain, and then another Fast Pass later for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Now we are reduced to a single E-ticket in a day, & a couple of rides that I probably wouldn't care to ride anyway.
JerseyDad
Well-Known Member
[/QUOTE]
.....pay more get less ...the new reality in the world. Heck ...it's like going out to buy a half-gallon of ice cream ...WHICH ....isn't a half-gallon any more ......but it's sure priced like one
.....pay more get less ...the new reality in the world. Heck ...it's like going out to buy a half-gallon of ice cream ...WHICH ....isn't a half-gallon any more ......but it's sure priced like one
neoshinok
Well-Known Member
I haven't dared venture back since FP+ has been introduced, but reading the thread it seems like they may offer the full selection of attractions at first, and then as the actual date approaches and more FP+ spots are taken, they eliminate selections to narrow down your E-ticket options. This would make sense, but who knows what kind of algorithms they've worked out to try to balance this system. I'm almost afraid to plan a day trip once the mine train is open.