Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[spaceghost]

I'm sorry, but unless you provide real sources of information, your opinions are not facts. I do believe they are your opinions as you refer to DHS as a "second-tier" park, and "expendable." It is almost laughable that TDO just woke up to the fact that DHS is a half-day park. Given that attendance at WDW is up solidly, the economy is recovering, I don't believe your position. Sorry, it matters that others have hard numbers and that Iger's notes that attendance was at record levels at WDW.

DHS and AK are both half-day parks, sure, Burbank would like to change that and they're taking a swing at AK with Pandora . . . but DHS has real logistical issues, and a plethora of data seems to indicate that the Carsland at DHS is purely fan driven.

It is hilarious that DHS bashers (who want all this new expensive stuff) ignore the record attendance levels at WDW, just this last quarter, and pretend that DHS is sliding downhill. Very conveniently you dismissed the TEA numbers for DHS, but if they use a consistent methodology, while the absolute numbers may be slightly off, the percentage increases would be more accurate.

Credibility is earned, not given. @Lee has earned credibility. I'll take his words as fact in this argument.

 

[asianway]

Credibility is earned, not given. @Lee has earned credibility. I'll take his words as fact in this argument.

Lee hasn't been quoted by a major newspaper on a WDW related story though. Oh wait

 

[Darth Sidious]

I don't think the park hopper is that beneficial to sell for WDW. Couple of thoughts...

1. When people park hop, they can end up using Disney resources like the boats or buses. These cost money to run, so lessening their use can help reduce costs for Disney
2. Time spent hopping between parks is time not spent in a park spending money. Especially if people use that in between time to go back to their hotel and eat as opposed to eat in a park. Keep a person in the park all day and they are more likely to spend money at some point due to being a captive audience.
3. I think the idea is that instead of people spending a day at DHS and hopping to Epcot that they'll spend a full day at DHS and a full day at Epcot. Selling an extra day's ticket + any food/merch sales from that extra day in the parks is almost certainly better for Disney than the cost of the park hopper.

If you eliminate the park hopper you will need to slash ticket prices or you will see some real damage to attendance of DHS and DAK. Then you'll see further reductions in spending at each of those parks. You will also face further crowd issues at MK. Essentially making it an easy choice for guests to go spend more time at the 'newer' park at Uni.

Disney plays all sorts of financing tricks to drive their numbers up. MM+ is their newest investment in fixing margins.

Long story short I think it would be potentially harmful to do, especially considering the state of the parks right now.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

While the reasons for this investment in DHS and DAK are surely because of the issues @Lee mentions above (as have others), it would be kind of cool to have some real improvements to the parks leading up to that milestone. Does the company actually plan that far ahead anymore?

There are no solid plans for investing in a massive demolition and construction project at DHS as far as we know. Did fans look at DCA and naively assume that DHS has 14 acres in the back where a Carsland would go? Are "insiders" trying to dash fans hopes on the rocks of despair to generate anger at Disney to make them "fix" DHS . . . a park which gets 10 million guests a year and makes money?

I see DHS doing what it always does to stay releveant . . . a new E-Ticket/attraction that can fit in a small space. Not a vanity project ripping out what some don't like in order to put in other stuff.

 

[Funmeister]

I'm sorry, but unless you provide real sources of information, your opinions are not facts. I do believe they are your opinions as you refer to DHS as a "second-tier" park, and "expendable." It is almost laughable that TDO just woke up to the fact that DHS is a half-day park. Given that attendance at WDW is up solidly, the economy is recovering, I don't believe your position. Sorry, it matters that others have hard numbers and that Iger's notes that attendance was at record levels at WDW.

DHS and AK are both half-day parks, sure, Burbank would like to change that and they're taking a swing at AK with Pandora . . . but DHS has real logistical issues, and a plethora of data seems to indicate that the Carsland at DHS is purely fan driven.

It is hilarious that DHS bashers (who want all this new expensive stuff) ignore the record attendance levels at WDW, just this last quarter, and pretend that DHS is sliding downhill. Very conveniently you dismissed the TEA numbers for DHS, but if they use a consistent methodology, while the absolute numbers may be slightly off, the percentage increases would be more accurate.

DHS, Epcot and DAK are second tier parks. The recent change in admission price proves that fact Jack! If they were considered equal, even in Disney's eyes, they would be the same price. There is a reason why the Stinky Pete action figures were priced considerably lower than Buzz and Woody. There was not as much demand making him a second tier toy.

 

[thehowiet]

more guests = more spending

Not necessarily....

I'm sorry, but unless you provide real sources of information, your opinions are not facts. I do believe they are your opinions as you refer to DHS as a "second-tier" park, and "expendable." It is almost laughable that TDO just woke up to the fact that DHS is a half-day park. Given that attendance at WDW is up solidly, the economy is recovering, I don't believe your position. Sorry, it matters that others have hard numbers and that Iger's notes that attendance was at record levels at WDW.

DHS and AK are both half-day parks, sure, Burbank would like to change that and they're taking a swing at AK with Pandora . . . but DHS has real logistical issues, and a plethora of data seems to indicate that the Carsland at DHS is purely fan driven.

It is hilarious that DHS bashers (who want all this new expensive stuff) ignore the record attendance levels at WDW, just this last quarter, and pretend that DHS is sliding downhill. Very conveniently you dismissed the TEA numbers for DHS, but if they use a consistent methodology, while the absolute numbers may be slightly off, the percentage increases would be more accurate.

This is almost becoming comical at this point, especially given Lee's track record.

 

[doctornick]

If you eliminate the park hopper you will need to slash ticket prices or you will see some real damage to attendance of DHS and DAK. Then you'll see further reductions in spending at each of those parks. You will also face further crowd issues at MK. Essentially making it an easy choice for guests to go spend more time at the 'newer' park at Uni.

Disney plays all sorts of financing tricks to drive their numbers up. MM+ is their newest investment in fixing margins.

Long story short I think it would be potentially harmful to do, especially considering the state of the parks right now.

I'm not advocating getting rid of the Park Hopper. I don't see why they would.

I was responding to the idea that making DHS and DAK "full day parks" would lead to lower Park Hopper purchasing and decreased revenues. While that might happen, I don't think that would be an issue for TDO for the reasons I mentioned.

Of course they'd keep the Park Hopper add on.

 

[spaceghost]

There are no solid plans for investing in a massive demolition and construction project at DHS as far as we know. Did fans look at DCA and naively assume that DHS has 14 acres in the back where a Carsland would go? Are "insiders" trying to dash fans hopes on the rocks of despair to generate anger at Disney to make them "fix" DHS . . . a park which gets 10 million guests a year and makes money?

I see DHS doing what it always does to stay releveant . . . a new E-Ticket/attraction that can fit in a small space. Not a vanity project ripping out what some don't like in order to put in other stuff.

Look, I don't want to argue with you, but are you saying that @Lee, @WDW1974, @articos, @pheneix, and anyone else with some inside info on this are deliberately posting misinformation so that the WDWMagic forum goers will be outraged and storm Burbank when it doesn't happen?

Mind = blown.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There are no solid plans for investing in a massive demolition and construction project at DHS as far as we know. Did fans look at DCA and naively assume that DHS has 14 acres in the back where a Carsland would go? Are "insiders" trying to dash fans hopes on the rocks of despair to generate anger at Disney to make them "fix" DHS . . . a park which gets 10 million guests a year and makes money?

I see DHS doing what it always does to stay releveant . . . a new E-Ticket/attraction that can fit in a small space. Not a vanity project ripping out what some don't like in order to put in other stuff.

And there is even less evidence for what you're selling.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

DHS, Epcot and DAK are second tier parks. The recent change in admission price proves that fact Jack! If they were considered equal, even in Disney's eyes, they would be the same price. There is a reason why the Stinky Pete action figures were priced considerably lower than Buzz and Woody. There was not as much demand making him a second tier toy.

Ah, sure . . . Epcot is the number 6 theme in the world with 11 million guests last year. I guess to be considered more than second tier you have to be in the top five? Hilarious!

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Look, I don't want to argue with you, but are you saying that @Lee, @WDW1974, @articos, @pheneix, and anyone else with some inside info on this are deliberately posting misinformation so that the WDWMagic forum goers will be outraged and storm Burbank when it doesn't happen?

Mind = blown.

@pheneix's post was really rambling and out there . . . and totally made up as I don't think anybody believes that Burbank is looking at StarWars, Carsland, and Pixar rides for DHS! Sure, you can report a rumor that WDI/Burbank is "looking at" doing something, but even if something never happens it isn't not true.

Remember Lee said probably half a year ago that they were practically . . . oh so close to doing Carsland at DHS and it was all but a done deal.

I don't see the bulldozers.

So if four people on an internet forum say something is going to happen with regards to Disney and parks it will? Some of these people have a very negative view of Disney's parks, and no doubt they want DHS "fixed" pronto even if there weren't rumors implying this very thing.

 

[thehowiet]

Ah, sure . . . Epcot is the number 6 theme in the world with 11 million guests last year. I guess to be considered more than second tier you have to be in the top five? Hilarious!

Speaking of hilarious, I'm curious to hear why you think a one day ticket to Epcot, DHS, and AK now costs less than a one day ticket to MK for the first time in history.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Speaking of hilarious, I'm curious to hear why you think a one day ticket to Epcot, DHS, and AK now costs less than a one day ticket to MK for the first time in history.

Maybe Disney figured they could get more money due to the offerings with NFL, or a computer program/analyst told them to do it this way. Doesn't change the fact that WDW is very well visited and that ticket prices are already high. Don't fall into the trap of believing that others will take the same piece of data and make the same conclusion you do.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ah, sure . . . Epcot is the number 6 theme in the world with 11 million guests last year. I guess to be considered more than second tier you have to be in the top five? Hilarious!

The EPCOT Center also has by far the largest capacity of all of the theme parks in central Florida.

@pheneix's post was really rambling and out there . . . and totally made up as I don't think anybody believes that Burbank is looking at StarWars, Carsland, and Pixar rides for DHS! Sure, you can report a rumor that WDI/Burbank is "looking at" doing something, but even if something never happens it isn't not true.

Remember Lee said probably half a year ago that they were practically . . . oh so close to doing Carsland at DHS and it was all but a done deal.

I don't see the bulldozers.

So if four people on an internet forum say something is going to happen with regards to Disney and parks it will? Some of these people have a very negative view of Disney's parks, and no doubt they want DHS "fixed" pronto even if there weren't rumors implying this very thing.

You're talking about a company that is taking years to build a small roller coaster in Fantasyland. That twice took to long to get together a plan for Downtown Disney and will still take years to move on their latest plan. That still has no idea when they'll get they're latest, biggest project that is about 100% over budget to launch.

 

[ParentsOf4]

We've entered the realm of speculation. Will TWDC's plans work? Even with access to the most intimate information, no one knows. If it wasn't mostly speculation or, if you will, business intuition, every financial deal would be a success, every investment a moneymaker, every movie a blockbuster, every theme park addition a winner.

One further thought. Don't assume decisions made today will remain in place in the future. Business plans change, sometimes frequently. It's happened quite a lot in the history of Disney.

I expect developments at WDW and Uni will provide us with plenty to talk about in the coming months.

 

[WDW1974]

If you remember, a few months back it was stated parades were being killed? It was also thought there was some back of house support facilities that went along with that were being moved around. All true...

Yep ... but I am wondering what Disney will do to their other Studios breadwinner -- SWW's -- when they embark on this massive makeover. ... The Ozzy and Sharon Lightacular will be history. There is nowhere for them to stick them (their current location is because they paved all of the backlot sets for LMA) now. ... But what of SWW's? I would guess they'll continue them, but they may be scaled back a bit because of space and construction issues.

 

[Funmeister]

Ah, sure . . . Epcot is the number 6 theme in the world with 11 million guests last year. I guess to be considered more than second tier you have to be in the top five? Hilarious!

Don't take it out of context. Dollywood would never be able to compete attendance-wise with Epcot. Go re-read your posts...we were talking about it being a second tier park compared to other WDW theme parks. Do not insult the intelligence of the readers of this forum with blurring the "facts" of your own posts. When DHS DOES announce the expansion would you prefer starting your own thread admitting you are wrong or would you prefer to just add a post here?

 

[WDW1974]

The only conclusion one can draw from the evidence presented is that Universal has single handedly forced Disney to pivot away a bit from its Blue Ocean business strategy and compete with Universal on Universal's terms. This is usually where someone can say "that's awesome because the consumer WINS" yada yada but Disney is not an organization that gives a rip about providing value for money. Disney is also an organization loaded with selfish, untalented, unethical managers, again, at all levels of administration with quite an infestation built up on the creative side at WDI as well. Critical thought and adaptation to different marketplaces are not talents that Disney managers and executives excel at. This is not going to end well for them.

Yes, this has been at the heart of what I have been preaching about WDW since the dawn of the 21st century. It's taken a decade plus and action on the part of the competition to start roosting, but rest assured the birdies have come home ... and no amount of Pixie Dusted spin will change that.

 

[Goofyernmost]

1. When people park hop, they can end up using Disney resources like the boats or buses. These cost money to run, so lessening their use can help reduce costs for Disney

The problem with that is that these buses and boats are on a fixed route. They are going to run back and forth even if no one is on the bus or boat. Expenses are not significantly affected. They are not on demand. Even if they only had one person using a hopper, they have to follow the schedule so that they don't strand someone where they don't want to be. And besides that the only buses or boats that are affected are those that run from park to park. I'm thinking that this is a much smaller portion of the service by and large.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Ah, sure . . . Epcot is the number 6 theme in the world with 11 million guests last year. I guess to be considered more than second tier you have to be in the top five? Hilarious!

We don't know with certainty whether or not Epcot is getting love. The rumors point to Soarin' The World and changes to Captain EO, however without a major ride upgrade on a less than popular ride it too could get passed by the Universal Parks in attendance.