Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts Tres

[Darth Sidious]

Doesn't look good for either of them ...

I find it ridiculous that they are considering removing Muppets. They could actually build an additional land based on the Muppets IP. Removing LMA and BL tour are in a different ballpark though. Muppets seems to be an IP with risig stock. I would have just shifted the expansion into another direction since you're on the park's border anyway.

It better be worth it!

 

[John]

Oh I forgot to mention.... changing the name again. Who's bright idea is this. Who does this? Who changes a theme parks name three times? Why because their are no studios left? Well duhhhhhh there wasn't any the last time the name was changed. Hmmmmm How about Hollywood Springs?

 

[Lee]

You have no proof that DHS has become a second tier park at WDW based on public foot traffic, sorry, this is just a personal appraisal.

Wrong. *sigh*
DHS (and DAK) are now seen as "expendable" by many guests. This is not a personal appraisal, this is reflected in Disney's survey numbers and comes straight to me from inside TDO.

Guests are opting for tickets with fewer days than before, chosing to forgo more time at DHS and DAK for days at other properties. DHS is also (according to my info) the most "hopped from" park, with guests spending far fewer hours there than at MK and Epcot.

Spending may be up at certain parks (DCA, EPCOT...) but certainly not at DHS.

 

[RSoxNo1]

If all of these rumors are indeed true, I applaud these choices. If the budget choice was $600 million for Cars Land in DHS and they are now spreading that between Cars and Star Wars, I am 100% behind it. I'm sure some people will be upset that a clone of Radiator Springs Racers isn't coming to DHS, but without knowing particulars I would much rather have a new E for Cars and a new E for Star Wars that are less than the $340 million RSR price tag.

 

[articos]

No disrespect intended, but the elephant in the room is Yoda. The perfect transition from Star Wars To Muppets. Didn't Frank Oz have something to do with Yoda? It was also the same decade of a movie he was directing, and got let go. I know about that, as they were renting my car as background decoration. On the set everyone loved seeing him in person, and then ..poof.. he was gone, replaced by Richard Benjamin.

Love Frank. He does Yoda's voice in Star Tours already, right next door, and he's also a voice in Monsters U. Eric Jacobson is the current voice of Frank's Piggy, though, and I doubt that would change.

 

[Turtle]

If all of these rumors are indeed true, I applaud these choices. If the budget choice was $600 million for Cars Land in DHS and they are now spreading that between Cars and Star Wars, I am 100% behind it. I'm sure some people will be upset that a clone of Radiator Springs Racers isn't coming to DHS, but without knowing particulars I would much rather have a new E for Cars and a new E for Star Wars that are less than the $340 million RSR price tag.

So the plan is to have Cars Land with one dark ride? Would that make it "Cars Land" or just part of Pixar Place?

 

[Turtle]

and he's also a voice in Monsters U.

False, I saw an early screening of film and his character is not in it.

 

[articos]

Disney instead of Disney's or are we talking bigger?

Don't know.

 

[articos]

False, I saw an early screening of film and his character is not in it.

He may not have made the cut, but he did voice a character. May end up in the special features. I have not yet seen the final cut.

 

[doctornick]

The Muppet space at DHS has an identity - why tear that down? I can honestly say no one knows yet what will happen here, though. It's still early, and could go another way. I'm saying as of right now, Muppets are staying, although the attraction may not be the same one or in the same place. That could change.

The Idol/Sound Studio building is a theater that will be without a purpose soon enough, and it's in the right spot. Wonder what could go there, Luke, I mean, @pheneix? And then on top of that, there's a ton of space right by ST that's usable or being freed up, for f&b and...

I just want to go back to this.

I don't really understand why they would tear down the Muppets or repurpose it t Star Wars unless they needed the space. And if they are using the IJ area (for a bike coaster E-ticket) and they have the backstage where the parade/costuming is and they have Sounds Dangerous/American Idol to use and they can retheme Backlot Express.... that's a lot of space for Star Wars already. There's even the parking lot or the access toll road (if the toll plaza gets redone as has been rumored) if they need more space.

Regardless of what one thinks of the Muppets or the show, it's popular enough to keep around unless they really need that space. And it doesn't seem like they should (unless the Star Wars presence is going to be particularly big).

 

[HenryMystic]

If all of these rumors are indeed true, I applaud these choices. If the budget choice was $600 million for Cars Land in DHS and they are now spreading that between Cars and Star Wars, I am 100% behind it. I'm sure some people will be upset that a clone of Radiator Springs Racers isn't coming to DHS, but without knowing particulars I would much rather have a new E for Cars and a new E for Star Wars that are less than the $340 million RSR price tag.

I'm with you. Like I said earlier, I actually went to bed last night (after reading Spirit's confirmation and Pheneix's posts) feeling positive about a future development at WDW. It's been years since that was the case.

 

[BrianLo]

You got a very good deal. It was $180 when I went in late 2010 and I was going to book it before getting a Good Neighbor hotel in Odaiba for $61 a night (in Tokyo, that's like free!)

I picked up the Sheraton for $125 this July, which is pretty ridiculous for a Category Six Starwood property (there are 7 categories). I'm hopeful this is indicative of light crowds since it seems to be an isolated set of dates...

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Wrong. *sigh*
DHS (and DAK) are now seen as "expendable" by many guests. This is not a personal appraisal, this is reflected in Disney's survey numbers and comes straight to me from inside TDO.

Guests are opting for tickets with fewer days than before, chosing to forgo more time at DHS and DAK for days at other properties. DHS is also (according to my info) the most "hopped from" park, with guests spending far fewer hours there than at MK and Epcot.

Spending may be up at certain parks (DCA, EPCOT...) but certainly not at DHS.

Have no idea what you're trying to say here. First you say that DHS is second tier, now you are saying that AK and DHS are expendable. This makes absolutely no sense, unless you are secretly advocating for DHS to get Carsland. In fact, I think that you did say that bulldozers were going to be rolling fairly shortly months ago, LOL. So, it seems you might be biased a bit concerning the performance of DHS.

Both parks draw in about 10 million guests per year, attendance at WDW is up to record levels. Sure, DHS and even AK have never been full day parks . . . what else is new, but combined they get 20 million guests. Nothing to sneeze at.

There is a potentially astounding logical conclusion from your assertion:

You say fewer guests spending fewer days, yet we *know* there are more guests per Iger at WDW, record levels, so that would mean more guests spending fewer days . . . a win scenario for Disney as multi-day passes get cheaper when you add on more days.

Of course, if the average amount of time was dropping . . . it wouldn't be in days, but rather an average which would be a fraction of days anyhow. Kinda makes me doubt your info.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Spending may be up at certain parks (DCA, EPCOT...) but certainly not at DHS.

More opinion I would wager. DHS's attendance is up about 2%, the whole resort just had a record quarter in attendance, so in absolute numbers, it would be hard to conclude that spending is down at DHS, more guests = more spending, plus a recovering economy equals more spending, especially on a per capita basis. Given the attendance numbers and Iger's report, doubt that DHS's spending is suffering.

In fact, operating income really soared, and it was attributed to more merchandise/food being bought . . . very fishy to conclude that somehow DHS would not be affected by such a broad trend.

In May, Disney's parks and resorts reported an operating income of $383 million for its fiscal second quarter, a gain of 73 percent from the previous year. "Higher operating income at our domestic operations was primarily due to increased guest spending and attendance at both Walt Disney World Resort and Disneyland Resort, the addition of the Disney Fantasy cruise ship, which launched in March 2012, and higher occupied room nights at the Walt Disney World Resort," the report reads. "These increases were partially offset by increased costs. Increased guest spending was due to higher average ticket prices, food, beverage and merchandise spending and daily hotel room rates. Higher costs were driven by new guest offerings, including investments in systems infrastructure at Walt Disney World Resort and resort expansion at Disneyland Resort, as well as labor and other cost inflation."

 

[Lee]

More opinion I would wager. DHS's attendance is up about 2%, the whole resort just had a record quarter in attendance, so in absolute numbers, it would be hard to conclude that spending is down at DHS, more guests = more spending, plus a recovering economy equals more spending, especially on a per capita basis. Given the attendance numbers and Iger's report, doubt that DHS's spending is suffering.

I don't think you are paying attention, or are just chosing to believe what you want to be true.

First, none if what I'm saying is opinion. I deal in facts.

Second, DHS is not up 2%. It was up slightly, but the TEA estimate was high.

Third, the percentage it was up was largely due to guests starting the day there, then leaving to go elsewhere (another park or resort.)
Disney only counts the first click of the day. Therefore the slight attendance increase was due to guests hitting DHS early, to knock out ghe headliners, then hopping away. That's fewer meals and less merch sold. Guest spend is low at DHS. More "guests" is actually "more clicks" and they most certainly do not equate to more spending. (Quantity vs. quality.)

This plan they are developing is intended to increase time and money spent in the park by leveraging the two big franchises, Star Wars and Cars.

Of course, by the time DHS is done, Uni will have opened Potter 2.0 and the other additions they have coming. Good chance DHS gains guests, but at the expense of DAK and Epcot.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't think you are paying attention, or are just chosing to believe what you want to be true.

First, none if what I'm saying is opinion. I deal in facts.

Second, DHS is not up 2%. It was up slightly, but the TEA estimate was high.

Third, the percentage it was up was largely due to guests starting the day there, then leaving to go elsewhere (another park or resort.)
Disney only counts the first click of the day. Therefore the slight attendance increase was due to guests hitting DHS early, to knock out ghe headliners, then hopping away. That's fewer meals and less merch sold. Guest spend is low at DHS. More "guests" is actually "more clicks" and they most certainly do not equate to more spending. (Quantity vs. quality.)

This plan they are developing is intended to increase time and money spent in the park by leveraging the two big franchises, Star Wars and Cars.

Of course, by the time DHS is done, Uni will have opened Potter 2.0 and the other additions they have coming. Good chance DHS gains guests, but at the expense of DAK and Epcot.

Here is a dilemma for WDW. By having DHS and AK as half day parks it seems pretty popular to hop to EPCOT or MK for evening. Having guests do this requires a park hopper pass priced 10 to 15% higher than a standard ticket. If they flesh out both of these parks will they lose money by selling less park hopper options for their tickets? If you are staying at AK and DHS for a whole day you really could get by without a park hopper.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

First, none if what I'm saying is opinion. I deal in facts.

Second, DHS is not up 2%. It was up slightly, but the TEA estimate was high.

Third, the percentage it was up was largely due to guests starting the day there, then leaving to go elsewhere (another park or resort.)
Disney only counts the first click of the day. Therefore the slight attendance increase was due to guests hitting DHS early, to knock out ghe headliners, then hopping away. That's fewer meals and less merch sold. Guest spend is low at DHS. More "guests" is actually "more clicks" and they most certainly do not equate to more spending. (Quantity vs. quality.)

This plan they are developing is intended to increase time and money spent in the park by leveraging the two big franchises, Star Wars and Cars.

Of course, by the time DHS is done, Uni will have opened Potter 2.0 and the other additions they have coming. Good chance DHS gains guests, but at the expense of DAK and Epcot.

I'm sorry, but unless you provide real sources of information, your opinions are not facts. I do believe they are your opinions as you refer to DHS as a "second-tier" park, and "expendable." It is almost laughable that TDO just woke up to the fact that DHS is a half-day park. Given that attendance at WDW is up solidly, the economy is recovering, I don't believe your position. Sorry, it matters that others have hard numbers and that Iger's notes that attendance was at record levels at WDW.

DHS and AK are both half-day parks, sure, Burbank would like to change that and they're taking a swing at AK with Pandora . . . but DHS has real logistical issues, and a plethora of data seems to indicate that the Carsland at DHS is purely fan driven.

It is hilarious that DHS bashers (who want all this new expensive stuff) ignore the record attendance levels at WDW, just this last quarter, and pretend that DHS is sliding downhill. Very conveniently you dismissed the TEA numbers for DHS, but if they use a consistent methodology, while the absolute numbers may be slightly off, the percentage increases would be more accurate.

 

[doctornick]

Here is a dilemma for WDW. By having DHS and AK as half day parks it seems pretty popular to hop to EPCOT or MK for evening. Having guests do this requires a park hopper pass priced 10 to 15% higher than a standard ticket. If they flesh out both of these parks will they lose money by selling less park hopper options for their tickets? If you are staying at AK and DHS for a whole day you really could get by without a park hopper.

I don't think the park hopper is that beneficial to sell for WDW. Couple of thoughts...

1. When people park hop, they can end up using Disney resources like the boats or buses. These cost money to run, so lessening their use can help reduce costs for Disney
2. Time spent hopping between parks is time not spent in a park spending money. Especially if people use that in between time to go back to their hotel and eat as opposed to eat in a park. Keep a person in the park all day and they are more likely to spend money at some point due to being a captive audience.
3. I think the idea is that instead of people spending a day at DHS and hopping to Epcot that they'll spend a full day at DHS and a full day at Epcot. Selling an extra day's ticket + any food/merch sales from that extra day in the parks is almost certainly better for Disney than the cost of the park hopper.

 

[spaceghost]

Is there any sort of consideration with these plans for DHS and Avatar at DAK as part of a long term plan leading up to the 50th in 2021? We redo DHS over the next few years, get Avatar done, and then have some time on the backend to maybe give Epcot and MK some love before the anniversary? Given the construction times we've seen on other projects, if they were thinking about building something out for then, they'd want to be thinking about it now. While the reasons for this investment in DHS and DAK are surely because of the issues @Lee mentions above (as have others), it would be kind of cool to have some real improvements to the parks leading up to that milestone. Does the company actually plan that far ahead anymore? I'd think they'd want to hit that mark hard, marketing-wise, like they did with DL. Not saying it's a reason for any of this, but say if this proposed project is done in 2016ish, with Avatar right around there too, that could kick off a 5 year period leading up to the 50th with new attractions at all of the parks. It's probably wishful thinking on my part, but it seems like it would be a good idea (especially given the competition from Uni).

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't think the park hopper is that beneficial to sell for WDW. Couple of thoughts...

1. When people park hop, they can end up using Disney resources like the boats or buses. These cost money to run, so lessening their use can help reduce costs for Disney
2. Time spent hopping between parks is time not spent in a park spending money. Especially if people use that in between time to go back to their hotel and eat as opposed to eat in a park. Keep a person in the park all day and they are more likely to spend money at some point due to being a captive audience.
3. I think the idea is that instead of people spending a day at DHS and hopping to Epcot that they'll spend a full day at DHS and a full day at Epcot. Selling an extra day's ticket + any food/merch sales from that extra day in the parks is almost certainly better for Disney than the cost of the park hopper.

Good point on the transportation and spending and probably true. I just remember when the park hopping came with the pass instead of costing more. I was thinking of it more like the airlines charging for checked bags. An added charge that becomes part of the bottom line that can't be removed without taking a hit or raising prices.