"I don't think the imagination pavilion works anymore." - Tony Baxter

[MerlinTheGoat]

It was already somewhat known Mr Baxter hates the current Imagination. Someone mentioned to him last year at Destination D that they loved the ride. He made sure they were referring to the original attraction and he was apparently very unhappy about the current one.

It's no surprise either. I've seldom met anyone who likes the current ride, especially in light of the original ride. Though I guess it's pretty surprising to me at least that he spoke out about his true feelings. Sure you can easily tell he's heavily biting his tongue (I'm betting money he's having to restrain himself from using some well-deserved 4 letter words to describe it). But still he said SOMETHING negative about it. I wonder what the result will be.

I've often said, original Imagination is one of the few rides at Future World that could go largely unchanged and still be relevant. It doesn't rely on portraying a potential future that would need to be changed ever 5-10 years. Its theme, characters, and sets have a sort of timeless quality to them. And to this day i'll still say it beats most remaining Disney rides. Shame it was lost, and for no good reason now that everyone knows there was sabotage to the attendance rates.

Barely anyone rides the current ride, i've been during the busiest seasons of the year and have never seen more than about 3-4 people in line (and those seemed to be curious newcomers who never even rode it before). So taking the ride offline for a while to build something better (akin to the original) I doubt would really tick anyone off even (unlike Test Track). If only, it would be a good first step to returning Epcot to its former glory if it were done right this time.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Well as one of the main creative forces behind the original Imagination mr. Baxter would resent its demise for the obviously inferior version.

Kinda like the way he took Davis' WRE and gave the world an inferior abridged version of that.

What's new isn't Baxter's opinion of Imagination 2.0/3.0, which everybody shares with him, but that he should be so outspoken about it.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I've often said, original Imagination is one of the few rides at Future World that could go largely unchanged and still be relevant. It doesn't rely on portraying a potential future that would need to be changed ever 5-10 years. Its theme, characters, and sets have a sort of timeless quality to them. And to this day i'll still say it beats most remaining Disney rides. Shame it was lost, and for no good reason now that everyone knows there was sabotage to the attendance rates.

Yes, you've made the point before, and I couldn't agree more. I think Imagination would totally be a timeless classic by now. Such a shame.

 

[marni1971]

HOLD THE PRESSES!! News Flash. Read all about it. It's kind of sad that it took this long for someone to notice.

He does talk to you about it when asked. I had a great chat with him about the current pavilion a few years back.

 

[misterID]

From what I've noticed with people "in the know" on these boards, is that basically everyone at TDO knows Imagination doesn't work anymore and that it needs fixing, not just Tony and WDI. The real question is: What are they going to do about it?

 

[PeterAlt]

I think it is more a case of convergence of opinions, rather than Tony agreeing with folks on this message board. Does Tony Baxter anonymously cruise this board or even know of this conversation? I kind of doubt it. Meaning, we aren't part of the solution or the problem, but peripheral to all of it.

Any moron could see Imagination has a big problem the way it is. You don't need to read our discussions here to figure that one out (or be a rocket scientist). Most at Disney Imagineering (except Pual Pressler) probably understood this from the get-go but never said anything for fear of losing their job. The fact that Baxter is speaking up now may have something to do with John Lasseter's recent visit to the pavilion. We don't know the purpose of that visit or what he said behind closed doors there, but it is entirely possible that he said something to warrant it safe for Baxter making those comments.

In other words, current creative leadership within Disney are well aware of the blunder we call Imagination and probably understand that they should get to work on the creation of a solution for fixing it. This by no way means that funds are dedicated yet for it, or even if the highest level of management approves. A movement from within must start somewhere. From all indications, that movement is well under way.

 

[misterID]

Any moron could see Imagination has a big problem the way it is. You don't need to read our discussions here to figure that one out (or be a rocket scientist). Most at Disney Imagineering (except Pual Pressler) probably understood this from the get-go but never said anything for fear of losing their job. The fact that Baxter is speaking up now may have something to do with John Lasseter's recent visit to the pavilion. We don't know the purpose of that visit or what he said behind closed doors there, but it is entirely possible that he said something to warrant it safe for Baxter making those comments.

In other words, current creative leadership within Disney are well aware of the blunder we call Imagination and probably understand that they should get to work on the creation of a solution for fixing it. This by no way means tat funds are dedicated yet for it, or even if the highest level of management approves. A movement from within must start somewhere. From all indications, that movement is well under way.

That could be true to an extent and man, would it be nice it that were true, but it seems to me with how close Tony and John are, it comes across (again, to me at least) that the relationship itself gives Tony a bit more clout to say what's on his mind without the fear of consequences. I mean, Tony saying things to people in the parks, he has to know its going to make its way out into the forum-sphere with his name attached.

Wasn't there someone who said that John rode Imagination once and when he got off he said something to the effect, "What are we going to do about this?"

 

[alphac2005]

It's been well documented for quite some time of Tony Baxter's disdain for Lack-of-Imagination, so it's interesting that he's said this publicly since we know how the Mouse House doesn't take well to their people talking about their not so great work, rather garbage.

Is this an off the cuff remark because he's headed towards retirement and now has no problem stating his opinion externally? Is it to put pressure on certain people to deal with the issue? Was it that he's just so bothered by what they did to his original gem that he couldn't help himself and had to comment? Of course, we don't know, but it's interesting nonetheless.

 

[Dads 2 Boys]

Besides the Imagination discussion, I loved Marty Sklar's comment about AA. I wonder if how much of his opinions still matter. When a legend speaks.......

 

[Goofyernmost]

He does talk to you about it when asked. I had a great chat with him about the current pavilion a few years back.

Well, next time I see him, I'll be sure to ask him about it. Does he come to Raleigh often? Just kidding, I know what you mean and have no reason to doubt it.

 

[rnese]

Well, I agree. Being an adult, I remember how it used to be. However, I have an 8-year old and a 5-year old. We went this past summer and they liked it. They love Phigment, they think the smells that get blasted at you are funny. After the ride, they enjoy the interactive area where they stick their hands through the window and create the music with Phigment on the screen. To them...it's neat! To me...it's disappointing, because I have a different point of reference, having experienced the original attraction. To my kids, that's how the attraction IS, and how it's always been.

However, there's never a wait AND it's air-conditioned, so I enjoy it as a bit of a break.

But, I agree. It's a pavillion with SO MUCH potential...IMAGINATION! I mean, the possibilities are endless.

 

[bgraham34]

Young kids from my experience have enjoyed the ride. I for one hate it and choose not to ride it unless I am at the parks with someone who has never ridden it.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Young kids from my experience have enjoyed the ride. I for one hate it and choose not to ride it unless I am at the parks with someone who has never ridden it.

Young kids tend to enjoy a lot of things that aren't really very good (or good for them). What made the original ride so great is that almost everyone loved it and thought it was an amazing ride, not just young kids. It had something that everyone could and did appreciate. And that is one of the reasons the original maintains a status among some of the greatest Disney attractions ever created.

 

[JEANYLASER]

Disney need to update the Imagination 2.0! they must! and a new sponsor as well!

 

[misterID]

Young kids tend to enjoy a lot of things that aren't really very good (or good for them). What made the original ride so great is that almost everyone loved it and thought it was an amazing ride, not just young kids. It had something that everyone could and did appreciate. And that is one of the reasons the original maintains a status among some of the greatest Disney attractions ever created.

Young kids like horrible TV shows and foul smelling scratch and sniff stickers... Combine those and, walla, you have the current Imagination. Not too hard to imagine some young kids like it.

At the same time, which blows a hole in the argument "but some kids like it" is the terrible attendance for the ride.

 

[alphac2005]

Kids aren't always the best barometer of things. When my twins were little (the age of our little one now), they took more interest in the cardboard box that came with whatever toy they got than the toy itself. We can't put too much credence in what they say.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Young kids like horrible TV shows and foul smelling scratch and sniff stickers... Combine those and, walla, you have the current Imagination. Not too hard to imagine some young kids like it.

At the same time, which blows a hole in the argument "but some kids like it" is the terrible attendance for the ride.

Yep you're right, even with all the elements that would potentially entertain kids who don't know any better, it's still clearly failing in attendance. Maybe you'll find a few kids who like it, but considering the sheer mass of kids who visit Disney and Epcot, you would expect to see more. Basically every single ride in the entirety of Epcot i've found to have far far longer lines and kids riding and enjoying it than Imagination now does (even Living With the Land).

I think one reason might be that despite all the stupid gags meant to try to amuse kids who don't know any better, it doesn't cover up the fact that much of the ride is just an empty building with not show elements. I might as well just be riding around in a motorized wheelchair inside a dark empty warehouse.

Kids aren't always the best barometer of things. When my twins were little (the age of our little one now), they took more interest in the cardboard box that came with whatever toy they got than the toy itself. We can't put too much credence in what they say.

Yup exactly. I probably enjoyed things as a kid that could be considered garbage. Though I will say that thankfully back then Disney at least made TV shows, movies, and theme park attractions that were of actual quality and entertained all ages. And I was exposed to these things as opposed to trash whenever possible (I grew up with the original Epcot attractions and adored it all).

Crap geared towards kids who don't know any better has always existed. But Disney at least used to not settle for that anywhere near the extent that they allow now.

 

[EpcotFanForever]

Imagination 4.0 - The Search for Figment's Gold

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Yeah, the search for gold to fund a decent overhaul of the ride. I suggest we take pickaxes to certain Disney leaders' suit pockets, might find some hidden in there.

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

I think one of the worst parts of today's Imagination is that it's conditioning kids and first-timers to think this is "EPCOT" and "Walt Disney World." That this is the best they can do, and what they should feel all excited and "magical" about.