Do you think renting DVC points bothers Disney?

[flynnibus]

I give up. I guess this is one of those things that is impossible to explain, though it shouldn't be.

To me, it's very simple:

X+Y=Z
If you take X out of the equation, then Z is not going to equal as much.

If only the real world were so isolated and clean... you're conclusion would have merit. But the real world in this case isn't filled with absolutes and clean cut 3 variables.

So yeah, your one transaction moves from slot A to slot B... but the story doesn't end there.

 

[captainkidd]

I looked back at the original post. Did you know your opinion on this prior to posting? Did you form it along the way? I know this has sparked a nice debate... but, was is planned? Just curious.

I've always believed Disney can't be happy about people renting points as opposed to paying cash. I'm curious as to whether or not they'll ever do anything about it.

 

[captainkidd]

That would be a true philosophy anywhere in the world except at Disney -- where the philosophy is ANY money brought in is better than no money brought in, and it doesn't matter if its at a resort, a park, or a restaurant. Every penny you spend goes back to Disney. Period. They do not care who is in the room, the club, or who uses the points as long as you spend your money at Disney. It ALL goes back to them. They even get kickbacks from the independent restaurants and stores at DD....everything ultimately trickles back to Disney.

Its one of the reasons they don't care if non-resort guests use their busses or crowd the line to Saratoga Springs or take the boats to the resorts. They will ultimately spend money, even if its to buy a soda or candy bar along the way. That money all flows back to Disney's income.

Please spend as much as you like.

If all this were true, then Disney wouldn't care about people using other people's tickets. "They're in the park, they're going to spend. Who cares how they got in?"

 

[Annielkd]

I've always believed Disney can't be happy about people renting points as opposed to paying cash. I'm curious as to whether or not they'll ever do anything about it.

I think they will. I give it two years. They are starting to make small changes to the perks... so yeah... I'm SURE they will try to eliminate this. It's just around the corneer. Obviously it cuts into their proffit. I don't care what anyone says... they just lost your 5000.00... if 10 people do that this year... that's a lot of money. I'm sure there are hundreds of people renting their points. With Disney, I'm SURE they are looking into this.

 

[captainkidd]

If only the real world were so isolated and clean... you're conclusion would have merit. But the real world in this case isn't filled with absolutes and clean cut 3 variables.

So yeah, your one transaction moves from slot A to slot B... but the story doesn't end there.

I get what you're saying. But I think in some cases (mine included), it is. I'm going to spend exactly the same amount of money on tickets, food and souveniers whether I pay cash or rent points. My "Y" factor isn't going to change for Disney. My "X" factor is however.

 

[flynnibus]

I get what you're saying. But I think in some cases (mine included), it is. I'm going to spend exactly the same amount of money on tickets, food and souveniers whether I pay cash or rent points. My "Y" factor isn't going to change for Disney. My "X" factor is however.

And you alone do not define the customer base for Disney. So again.. in a microscopic view.. Disney loses.. but the world of Disney didn't start and end with your reservation. So why focus on that alone?

 

[goodanu]

I will add this and it may have been posted b4 on this thread. Renting works for you because you can plan your vacations at least seven months in advance.

In my scenario, we want to travel the same two weeks in July as you do. But due to kids schedules we can not commit to a trip until some time in April. We go to rent points, we would like to stay at BLT, BWV or BCV. But since we are inside the seven month window the room we would like is not available. Which is pretty much the case today just by playing around with some dates on the dvc website. Well now our only choice is to stay at a resort, lets say the Polynesian with cash. Now we are both going and Disney gets the room at the poly you had reserved sold and the room you are renting via a dvc rental(which the renter family wasn't going to use this year) and both of our spending cash on tix, food and Mickey sweatshirts.

My point here is that not everyone can be flexible with their travel dates and renting points, while it may save some money, it just does not work out for everyone.

 

[RonAnnArbor]

"If all this were true, then Disney wouldn't care about people using other people's tickets. "They're in the park, they're going to spend. Who cares how they got in?"


Actually, I think you will find that if you use someone else's ticket as long as they are still active, EVEN IF YOUR index finger doesn't work on the ticket turnstile, that they will simply just pass you in at the ticket counter, neither looking at the name, nor the ticket information.

They TRY to prevent this type of thing, but they will NOT stop that sort of thing from happening.

By the way, that is EXACTLY why I don't allow any of my credit card information to be associated with my Keys to the Kingdom room/ticket card...

 

[slappy magoo]

The question is, which is better for Disney? Selling a room for cash, or having someone stay at a DVC Villa by renting points off of a member? Sure, as long as they're on property they're going to spend money. Disney wins either way. But they'd win a lot more if the customer was paying cash to stay at a resort.

Again, you're automatically assuming the person who's savvy enough to know how to rent points would defnitely go to WDW if he/she had to pay WDW for the room.

You're also assuming the person savvy enough to rent points is stupid enough to pay rack rate.

Because I'm sure when Disney tries to balance the books, they consider a lot of their promotions for rooms, like free dining, to be "loss leaders" in order to get families in room to spend money in the parks. Someone renting DVC points isn't getting free dining, isn't trying to get some other special discount, AND IS STILL spending money at Disney. In many instance, sit may work out better for WDW to let someone rent DVC points to get them on site as opposed to offering some kind of faux-loss-leader promotion to get them on site.

 

[captainkidd]

And you alone do not define the customer base for Disney. So again.. in a microscopic view.. Disney loses.. but the world of Disney didn't start and end with your reservation. So why focus on that alone?

Because I'm willing to bet that I'm not alone in the way I vacation. And if others are doing what I'm doing, it can't be best for Disney.

 

[Lucky]

Because I'm willing to bet that I'm not alone in the way I vacation. And if others are doing what I'm doing, it can't be best for Disney.

You should go to work for them then if they're too dumb to have figured this out.

 

[captainkidd]

You should go to work for them then if they're too dumb to have figured this out.

Now you're just putting words into my mouth. I never said that. In fact, I said just the opposite.

 

[Tom]

This is hilarious.

If you rent DVC points instead of staying at the Poly, Disney still wins. They've got you staying on property, which is their #1 priority. You may not be paying for the hotel, but you're eating, visiting the parks and shopping - all items with outrageous mark-ups (i.e. profit for Disney).

And as others have said many times, when you give up that room at the Poly, it will get filled. So, they not only have that room filled, but they shifted you over to a vacancy that still guarantees you'll spend money on property.

Never would Disney deter someone from staying on property, because there's at least a 50% chance you aren't going to have a car if you stay on property, meaning you're going to spend every penny of your vacation fund with Disney.

 

[captainkidd]

And as others have said many times, when you give up that room at the Poly, it will get filled. So, they not only have that room filled, but they shifted you over to a vacancy that still guarantees you'll spend money on property.

As I've stated already in this thread, there is availability at every resort for next week. Clearly, they are NOT filling all the rooms. Heck, I can check in tonight for an entire week at ANY resort.

What is so hard to understand about that?

I've said it many times - If Disney were running at 100% capacity, of course they'd be ecstatic to have you renting points. But if you're renting points in place of paying cash for a room and there are open rooms, how anyone can think that makes Disney happier is beyond me.

 

[slappy magoo]

As I've stated already in this thread, there is availability at every resort for next week. Clearly, they are NOT filling all the rooms.

What is so hard to understand about that?

There's no way to know that every single person renting DVC points (and how many of them are there, really, at any given time) would've otherwise paid Disney for one of their rooms.

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[Tom]

As I've stated already in this thread, there is availability at every resort for next week. Clearly, they are NOT filling all the rooms.

What is so hard to understand about that?

I've said it many times - If Disney were running at 100% capacity, of course they'd be ecstatic to have you renting points. But if you're renting points in place of paying cash for a room and there are open rooms, how anyone can think that makes Disney happier is beyond me.

Disney's occupancy is irrelevant. Except for a few rare cases each year, they are never at capacity.

And while I don't have actual data in my hand, I'd hedge my bets that Disney would much rather have you in the parks, buying things, eating, drinking, boating and taking tours than merely occupying a hotel room.

The Resorts cost a lot to maintain. We all know Disney hotels are expensive, but that doesn't mean they're making a huge profit on them. Their margins are almost undeniably greater when you spend money outside the hotel room.

There's no way to know that every single person renting DVC points (and how many of them are there, really, at any given time) would've otherwise paid Disney for one of their rooms.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Also true. Maybe they'd stay out on 192 if they didn't have a friend with points. If they did that, they'd spend a day at Sea World, another at Uni, and maybe even a day at their non-Disney pool. Those are all days Disney is not collecting from them, whereas they would be if they were staying on property.

 

[captainkidd]

There's no way to know that every single person renting DVC points (and how many of them are there, really, at any given time) would've otherwise paid Disney for one of their rooms.

What is so hard to understand about that?

I'm not saying they would. Kind of irrelevant though. No way to possibly gather such data. Very easy to gather data on who's renting points though.

 

[captainkidd]

Their margins are almost undeniably greater when you spend money outside the hotel room.

Oh, without a doubt. That doesn't make the $5,000 they're not getting for my hotel room worthless though.

 

[slappy magoo]

I'm not saying they would. Kind of irrelevant though. No way to possibly gather such data. Very easy to gather data on who's renting points though.

Irrelevant to you, because it invalidates your entire argument. But you're not allowed to pretend you're winning an argument by insisting facts (or lack of facts) don't matter.
If Disney has no way of knowing that those people who are renting DVC points would otherwise pay WDW for rooms - as opposed to staying offsite or going vacation somewhere else entirely - then there's no way to determine what, if anything, Disney is "losing" by people renting DVC points.

What they CAN quantify is the money they make by getting these people to stay on property by any means necessary, to spend money Disney would not otherwise make if people went elsewhere or stayed home. It's why they offer all manner of promotions like free dining, even though it cuts into their bottom line, and it's why they (for now) don't seem to mind if DVC members rent out their points - because it gets people ON PROPERTY, IN THE PARKS, that might otherwise not be there.

Bottom line is, you'll know Disney cares when you see them do something about it.

 

[Tom]

Oh, without a doubt. That doesn't make the $5,000 they're not getting for my hotel room worthless though.

It's definitely not worthless, and they're happy to take that $5,000 from anyone, through any means. Who's to say that, since you got a room for far less at BLT, you wouldn't go ahead and spend the rest of your $5000 on stuff you wouldn't have purchased if staying at the Poly?

But the original question you posed is the actual thesis here....and the answer to your question is: No, it does not bother Disney that people rent DVC points, because they still win, via profit.