Screamscape - Monorail Expansion Rumor

[bgraham34]

Disney would be foolish to not look at other sources of transportation to move quests about. This however does not mean its just the monorail that they are looking at. I know that Disney in the past has looked at powering hotels and things via solar power but were waiting on cheaper and more efficient solars panels.

 

[wm49rs]

I reference the thread where Raven and I discuss newer transportation for Downtown Disney, and other areas being in the cards.....


Thats all I'm sayin.:wave:

I remember Raven alluding to it.....

But that was also for the DtD area. And a potential trolley line there is not on the same scale as a monorail extension.

And has been said before, it's Screamscape. They also foretold of a new country being announced at last year's D23 event. Which, like new plans for PI/HW being announced at this year's shareholder's meeting, didn't happen.

 

[majortom1981]

hmm

Why does it have to be a monorail. Would it be cheaper if they did a train or trolley system instead?

 

[Did Knee]

Why does it have to be a monorail. Would it be cheaper if they did a train or trolley system instead?

My two cents is this: With the increase in fuel costs and the increase in attendance, transportation is something they have to revisit. The monorail IS iconic of WDW, even if it is more expensive. While expensive to build, I can't help but wonder if long term operations and maintenance costs might come close to justifying it, given the current high cost of the buses diesel fuel. Long term operation of monorail lines may still indeed be more expensive. But if it is even at all close, I think they should consider building an extension of monorail service, simply because they are so much a symbol of the resort.

 

[Knothead]

Why does it have to be a monorail. Would it be cheaper if they did a train or trolley system instead?

Because anyone can build a train or trolley. Disney is (or used to want to be) a leader in Future/Alternative transportation. Do you think WDW would be as memorable if you took a tram or trolley from the TTC to the main gate? The same goes for the resorts. They charge a premium for staying at a resort with Monorail access, at least part of this money should have been set aside for future expansion. Even if it was a small percentage I feel like any sort of expansion should/could have paid for itself by now.

 

[twebber55]

if they are spending a billion on next gen stuff then they really need to look at spending the necessary money on next gen transportation.....i have to believe that in the long term some type of mass transportation system would be more practical than running diesel buses

 

[GLaDOS]

They won't even spend money to properly maintain the current monorail crop.

You really think they'll expand it?:lol:

 

[Brian_WDW74]

Just a little out-loud thinking here...

Now that WDW has tried the Tronorail and Avengerail, is there a chance they might be considering accepting advertising dollars as a way to offset the cost of expanding and maintaining the monorail system?

 

[Knothead]

Just a little out-loud thinking here...

Now that WDW has tried the Tronorail and Avengerail, is there a chance they might be considering accepting advertising dollars as a way to offset the cost of expanding and maintaining the monorail system?

I can't wait to see the Appliance Direct green and yellow with a mural of the dude with the eyepatch and the lady with the peg leg. It's a great PotC tie-in!

 

[patrickbillet]

With gas prices, is it really more expensive than running bus transportation? :shrug:

Exactly. In the short term it may be very costly, but in the long run, it saves big money.

 

[Gregoryp73]

Exactly. In the short term it may be very costly, but in the long run, it saves big money.

Not to mention the fleet of drivers (and training), mechanics, porters, storage costs and increasing costs of insurance because of accidents...

The cost to replace and go hybrid or electric on the busses wouldn't be cheap either.

I would love to see them put in a park-hopper loop One that just hits all 4 parks and DTD in one continuous loop. That would be dreamy

P.S. Has WDW gone driverless on the monorails yet?

 

[Kamikaze]

Why does it have to be a monorail. Would it be cheaper if they did a train or trolley system instead?

I would say no. Remember, in Florida you can't build much underground because of the high water table. And with the roads already being in place, they would have to build a lot of overpasses for whatever system they were going to build. Keeping the entire system elevated and not having to worry about tons of inclines and declines would probably be easier on the engineering aspect of the project.

That said, any fixed rail system does not work for the WDW traffic flow. They need something that is easily changed to fit the traffic.

 

[zulemara]

They won't even spend money to properly maintain the current monorail crop.

You really think they'll expand it?:lol:

yeah that's pretty much my opinion. Before anyone looks at expanding anything, WE NEED NEW TRAINS!!!

Furthermore, my personal belief is that expanding the monorail system just isn't a good solution. Being on a track severely limits the capability to work around issues. It could be mechanical, a duck on the track that won't move, a guest passing out right in the load zone(monorail can't move until EMTs get there and move the guest potentially), there are numerous examples. This brings the ENTIRE line to a halt. They still have to have a backup transportation method(see the ferryboats at MK) and that method has to be always in place to quickly accommodate downtime. If they expand the monorail, then reduce bus transportation, it's going to take quite a bit of time to get additional buses up and running if needed.

Is the rest of property really that bad? I mean I only see MK, but MK attendance is like 7 million more than the next closest park. I think the main problem is the transportation at MK. Now if you said they were going to completely redo the ferryboat docks at MK and TTC to allow us to load one boat while unloading another, and add a 4th ferry, THAT would be an idea I could go along with and one I think would make more sense than expanding monorail service to the other parks.

 

[ryguy]

Whatever happened to the individual peoplemover/monorail idea? You get in your own little pod and it takes you directly to your destination. Was that just some crazy idea throw around the fan community or was it actually thought about?[/QUOTE]

This was on a survey back in 2000, at least it was when I was in the market research division. It was a pod like system that pretty much took a family anywhere around the resort. It sounded pretty far fetched at the time. But most people taking the survey seemed to think it sounded really cool. Personally I thought it had a potential to be confusing for guests.

As far as a monorail expansion, if it were to happen I would think they would put something down Buena Vista Drive. Connecting the higher end hotels Beach/Yacht, Boardwalk with Downtown Disney and the Studios. AK is just to far out to have a monorail going to it.

 

[Future Guy]

I'm extremely pessimistic about Disney spending any money at all to resolve WDW's transportation issues. Consider: I understand the FLE project was opposed by the Orlando executives and is only happening because the folks at the corporate office in Burbank overrode them. They opposed it even though the FLE will add a new revenue-generating character dining restaurant AND increase the park's capacity, thus allowing it to make more money. If they opposed spending money on a project that will lead to concrete financial gains, why would they spend anything on a non-revenue generator like transportation?

A lot of the replies here mention a transportation overhaul as necessary to the long-term health of the resort, but there's no indication that the Orlando executives care about the long-term health of the resort, only what will make them the most money right now.

This is exactly the kind of systemic paralysis that GM and Ford experienced in the 90s when they were getting killed by Honda and Toyota thanks to their strategy of making crappy cars that no one wanted to buy. Their response, if you'll recall, was to continue making crappy cars that no one wanted to buy until they were either bankrupt or close to it.

Things are going to get much, much, worse before they get better.

 

[s8film40]

yeah that's pretty much my opinion. Before anyone looks at expanding anything, WE NEED NEW TRAINS!!!

Furthermore, my personal belief is that expanding the monorail system just isn't a good solution. Being on a track severely limits the capability to work around issues. It could be mechanical, a duck on the track that won't move, a guest passing out right in the load zone(monorail can't move until EMTs get there and move the guest potentially), there are numerous examples. This brings the ENTIRE line to a halt. They still have to have a backup transportation method(see the ferryboats at MK) and that method has to be always in place to quickly accommodate downtime. If they expand the monorail, then reduce bus transportation, it's going to take quite a bit of time to get additional buses up and running if needed.

Is the rest of property really that bad? I mean I only see MK, but MK attendance is like 7 million more than the next closest park. I think the main problem is the transportation at MK. Now if you said they were going to completely redo the ferryboat docks at MK and TTC to allow us to load one boat while unloading another, and add a 4th ferry, THAT would be an idea I could go along with and one I think would make more sense than expanding monorail service to the other parks.

With a MODERN monorail system these issues aren't as big of a deal. Trains can be routed around one another, and stations should have more than one loading platform and adding and removing trains should take a matter of seconds maybe a minute or two. The problem is most people base their knowledge of typical monorail operations off of Disney's extremely outdated and poorly operated system and are not aware of just how efficient monorails can be.

 

[bkgrim]

It's always great to read a headline and then read the many negative replys to the thread. Just take a step back and think!
Disney has to (and does) think years down the line. What ideas they throw around now might be for 5 to 10 years down the road.
How many of you go to Disney and just ride the monorail to get to the park? I know we do not - we ride this around a few times, go to Epcot and TTC a few times just to be on the monorail. Disney knows this... What was the price tag for the new Magic Kingdom area, how much was Mission Space and yes I know HP helped. 88 million or 500 million over a few years is not a big thing to this company.
I think we will see this monorail go from Epcot to Downtown. ( I believe the station at Epcot was designed for another train to use???)
10 years from now we will see a new improved (I like downtown except the parking) downtown disney with more shops, food, shows and fun for all.
I will still be going to Disney every six months and enjoying it.

 

[GhettoJetta5]

Indeed. A quick look at The Monorail Society's page on "How Much Does Monorail Cost?" http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/HowMuch.html shows that Las Vegas paid $88 million a mile for their Bombardier monorail system (the same company that built WDW's monorail). Now I'm willing to concede that it probably wouldn't cost as much given Bombardier had to work around Las Vegas's urban sprawl and WDW's monorail would have a good amount more of open space around it to build. Still, very costly. And given how we know WDW LOOOOOVES to spend money </sarcasm>, I won't hold my breath.

The typical figure when a city is considering a Monorail system, is approx $100mil/mile... this includes land acquisition (which WDW should not have an issue), utilities (obviously burried electric, but also water for fire hydrants, if monorails run along existing roads, there are typically hyrdrants, so that expense is avoidable), trains, track, maintinance facilities, etc. WDW would need more trains (I would assume from Bombardier), and another maintinance facility, due to the fact that they already have two more trains than they have garage space. WDW would also need more tractor(s) as they have 3 for 12 trains as it is.

That being said, being the wdw/monorail nerd I am, I have come up with maps/drawings to expand the system. The Epcot loop could add HS and AK, HS is close anyway, adding AK would make "park hopping" possible via 100% Monorail. I also have ideas for a loop the goes to all Deluxe & DVC resorts not on the MK loop (Boardwalk, swawn/dolphin, and beach/yacht club would be one stop accessible via water taxi or walking), DTD and TTC... It would be a huge loop, that could also include HS and AK if desired because it would go very close (and the boardwalk area is very close to Epcot so all 3 non-MK loop parks could be accessible). This would greatly reduce the number of busses needed.

I also think that something similar to the TTA peoplemover in MK could replace parking lot trams... The vehicle cars would be longer, to allow for folded stroller(s)... There's more to it, but I don't want to get on to another tangent...

I know these exspensive crazy ideas, but I can dream right?

 

[s8film40]

I just wanted to throw out some numbers and facts out there, while i know im new to this site iv been a long reader, and recent wdw CM, so if you want to believe or not believe my facts is up to you, but i did hear them internally from some higher up people.

When wdw last reviewed the monorail expansion, the cost came to $130million per mile, while each new train would be $40million and can carry about 300 guests. Also the switch track where the new tractor hold is on the epcot line is not capable of switching a full train, as was the original intent. In terms of buses, they received an order of 50 new buses last june, and another 23 this past january. Each new bus costs about $230,000 (+/-) and can each hold 72 guests. The plan is to have about 400 buses and 2,000 drivers by this summer, where as of a few months ago it was about 310 buses and about $1,500 drivers. (pre januray delivery of busses).

So my opinion: its obviously not impossible and they do review it every once in a while, but its not practical at this point, the property just hasnt seemed to been designed for a mass rail as previously mentioned. Just my own preference, i think a light rail system could be a better fit, but thats just my own preference, nothing official.

Monorails are never priced by the mile. Each system is unique in how many trains/stations would be needed per mile and this would affect a per mile price. Sometimes people will breakdown the final cost once a system is built and by dividing the total by miles, but this information is completely useless as adding or subtracting a mile could cost much less or much more than the per mile price. I would also be a little skeptical of whoever gave you this information as it is seriously flawed. There was never any intent to have the Epcot spur switch a full train.

 

[s8film40]

Yes there was, they they physicially brought a train out and mocked it up, but found that the radius was to tight and the undercarriage was in danger of hitting the sidewalls of the beam. Like i said, i dont mind if you believe me or noy, but please dont bash me.

Radius was too tight? What radius? It's a straight shot off of the switch. I believe you, I just think whoever gave you this information didn't know what they were talking about.