Will Epcot be pronounced dead soon?

[Goofyernmost]

Everyone has their favorites. I've been to Epcot so many times I've lost count. But guess what? Maelstrom was my second favorite ride behind only Spaceship Earth. Maelstrom was fun! Frozen is okay, but has absolutely nothing to do with Norway and it's really just a short ride quickly retelling the movie.

You know I have been racking my brain for ages now about the "nothing to do with Norway thing" and having had my first visit to EPCOT in 1983 (Norway opened in 1988) and every trip back since then (45 of them) I have never really known what Norway was about other then trolls, water, and cold. I don't think that we lost any of that with Frozen. We now have trolls, water and cold, just presented differently. Of all the places in WS, to me Norway was the least interesting, but, that is me. What I'm saying is not everyone was all that impressed with that pavilion no matter how we looked at it. Just sayin!

I think that the restaurant, which is still there, contained the essence of Norway and still does. Add to that the architecture put in for the M&G's, not counting Elsa and Anna, since they are fictional characters, and you have probably more Norway then was ever there before. I might add that even the trolls are fictional. I'm sure the water and the cold are a representative reality.

 

[S 2]

Some (if not most of) Disney's greatest work has not been IP based. Growing up I had that same appreciation of the non-IP attractions. I think I even enjoyed them more than their IP-based counterparts.

Agreed. That was one of the dumbest decisions Disney has ever made.

I don't think it is that we don't ever want the parks to change or add new attractions, as a matter of fact I think most of us would welcome it. The issue is that the parks should be changed and updated in ways that respect their original intents.

I gotta ask: how do you respond to different posts in the same reply?

 

[Matt_Black]

I gotta ask: how do you respond to different posts in the same reply?

That tab between "Like" and "Reply" that says "+Quote"? Click that for every post you want to respond to. Once a post is clicked, it will change to "-Quote"; if you need to, click that again to remove it. Once you're ready, go to the reply box and there will be a button that says "Insert Quotes". Then you're pretty much all set.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Something else to remember with all of this is that the original Epcot, as it opened, wasn't too popular. The "pure" Epcot was never really embraced by the masses. No characters. Kids weren't too keen on it.

I remember it from when I was about 11 or 12 and it was a definite different feel, which I kind of liked, but I wasn't too keen on wandering around World Showcase. In retrospect it was because it was basically "shopping with mom". Let's look at everything and move around at a snails pace.

Still, it wasn't a popular park.

I don't think it's a "win" to make it a Disney "Universal"-like park, either. I liked the rides in Future World (the originals before they were replaced). That's not a full day, though.

If I were to fix the original Epcot (EPCOT), I'd:
- finish out World Showcase. Build the Rhine ride. Build the Thames ride. Build Mt Fuji. Add more countries.
- For Future World it's always tough. I think that the core question is: Outside of of the die-hards, would a particular ride survive today: I think that the answer is, "no," to just about everything. No one wants to hear that but I think that's how it is. It's kind of like if you like Rankin-Bass stop-motion animation and you remember all of the good ones from Christmas... That's like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, and Small World at MK. Always fond memories. Rankin-Bass has more in their library, though, and if you go back and watch them some are pretty tough to get through.. That's more like the secondary (for lack of a better word) attractions at Epcot.

I don't know what the real answer is. It's easy to say, "Put technology in there!" but it's a losing battle. Maybe not that it shouldn't be done but the hands-on stuff becomes obsolete and takes a beating.

I don't think that the answer is to become another Disney IP park. It'd start becoming Disney's "Universal" park.. Then folks would ask, "If this is their IP park then what's DHS??" and the answer would be, "No one knows."

 

[216bruce]

Honest confession: I never really liked EPCOT's WS much until recently because it was mostly 'shopping with mom' (wife) as mentioned above and a bunch of 'foreign' eateries. Always loved "American Adventure' though.
My kids always dreaded going to WS also....until they reached drinking age and appreciated different foods. Now it's OK.
FW isn't a technology park as much as it's a 'concept and idea park'. The tech is just a tool to showcase the individual concepts and idea's. The park should inspire. Period. How that is done doesn't matter technology-wise. If you can get away with AA's and a good script, so be it. If you need 'bright and shiny' newest, coolest tech and it falls flat idea-wise, then you don't have what FW should be.

 

[S 2]

It's the reduction in employees and benefits that is the lure to Disney . If you can charge Starbucks a huge fee and have no responsibility it's a win. I disagree but I'm not going to start the arguments with folks that could care less. I say Burger King, McDonald's bring them all in and then turn Main Street into a Walmart. No on cares anymore. The only push back you would get today is if they prohibited folks from searching for Pokemon.

Honestly I'm not comfortable with the McDonald's on property but not to the point where I would go around griping, but since you brought it up... I do like the idea of making Disney accessible to low income people and see the need for something affordable near the value resorts but....

 

[powderehss]

Oh GOD, don't remind me of GOTG...
It seriously would be leagues better to put it in HS with other Marvel stuff!

I've never ridden Ellen's Energy Adventure because I've heard it's like 45 minutes long, but I don't think they should just make a Marvel ride out of it... Like EPCOT used to be all about learning and wonder! It was like an interactive museum! Now I feel like Disney's just using it as a dumping ground for new cashgrab IPs like Frozen...

They better not touch Figment...
He's the dang mascot of EPCOT basically!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Oh GOD, don't remind me of GOTG...
It seriously would be leagues better to put it in HS with other Marvel stuff!

I've never ridden Ellen's Energy Adventure because I've heard it's like 45 minutes long, but I don't think they should just make a Marvel ride out of it... Like EPCOT used to be all about learning and wonder! It was like an interactive museum! Now I feel like Disney's just using it as a dumping ground for new cashgrab IPs like Frozen...

They better not touch Figment...
He's the dang mascot of EPCOT basically!

To late, that ship sailed ages ago. The Figment you see now is nothing, other then in looks, like the old Figment. This one is a nasty little know it all snot that doesn't listen to anyone and has absolutely no charm. The old Figment was indeed the "dang mascot"... but, not any more. The old Figment was curious, excited about learning things, questioned and understood the concept of imagination. This one has no appeal at all and I'm not sure why they want this one to stay.

 

[powderehss]

To late, that ship sailed ages ago. The Figment you see now is nothing, other then in looks, like the old Figment. This one is a nasty little know it all snot that doesn't listen to anyone and has absolutely no charm. The old Figment was indeed the "dang mascot"... but, not any more. The old Figment was curious, excited about learning things, questioned and understood the concept of imagination. This one has no appeal at all and I'm not sure why they want this one to stay.

Yeah, this new Figment's a little too snarky for my tastes.
He's got that "hip, rebellious" Bart Simpson-y attitude that seems real common in a lot of characters these days.
He's still cute in my opinion, but definitely not as cute as he originally was.
I don't like that the new Figment's a prankster now.

I also unfortunately never got to experience the original Journey to Imagination, because Kodak decided to butcher it when I was just three years old back in '98!

Didn't also help that my first WDW trip was a year later in April '99 and my folks never even knew the Imagination Pavilion ever existed until I took them and my sis to it this year back in March... I think our first EPCOT trip was in 2001 also. Sigh...

I also heard a scary thing from another WDW podcast that Journey to Imagination was supposedly set for demolition in 2008 but thankfully due to insufficient funds they didn't tear it down. Ugh! I don't even want to think about what they could've put there if those plans went through...

 

[216bruce]

To late, that ship sailed ages ago. The Figment you see now is nothing, other then in looks, like the old Figment. This one is a nasty little know it all snot that doesn't listen to anyone and has absolutely no charm. The old Figment was indeed the "dang mascot"... but, not any more. The old Figment was curious, excited about learning things, questioned and understood the concept of imagination. This one has no appeal at all and I'm not sure why they want this one to stay.

True. He's got 'edge'. "Edge" permeates just about everything theses days and marketing nimrods just love it. 'Edge' used to be 'sassy', but it was given a makeover. Some character has to be the bearer of 'edge' and 'sass' in EPCOT to make it appeal-able to the same crowd that watches the unwatchable Disney Channel sitcoms (where there's always some 'edge' and "sass') to make it cool. Sorry Figgy, you lose.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

Yeah well is Meigel Channing took over my show I would be like that to. He passed on Dreamfinders wisdom to a scientist who didn't really know what the imagination was all about.

 

[erasure fan1]

I remember it from when I was about 11 or 12 and it was a definite different feel, which I kind of liked, but I wasn't too keen on wandering around World Showcase. In retrospect it was because it was basically "shopping with mom". Let's look at everything and move around at a snails pace.

This was myself exactly. I was never very excited to get to world showcase because after Mexico and Norway it was just shopping until America and then back to more shopping. All world showcase needed was a few more C/D level rides and its now fun for everyone. And the rides would not have to be IP based like frozen.

 

[RoysCabin]

This was myself exactly. I was never very excited to get to world showcase because after Mexico and Norway it was just shopping until America and then back to more shopping. All world showcase needed was a few more C/D level rides and its now fun for everyone. And the rides would not have to be IP based like frozen.

That really is something I've been wishing for for years now; World Showcase thrives on smaller, more intimate experiences, with American Adventure being the one true E ticket of the group, so a series of smaller scale rides in the vein of El Rio del Tiempo in a few more pavilions would have really been welcomed over the years (e.g. the original proposals back in the day for a Rhine River ride in Germany, a Thames boat ride in England, gondola attraction in Italy, bullet train simulator in Japan, etc.). That or films ala Reflections of China and O Canada in as many pavilions as possible, that'd be welcomed, too.

That's not to say a well themed thrill ride couldn't thrive in World Showcase (e.g. the old Mt. Fuji concept for Japan), but again, it's the more intimate, C or D level experiences that really contribute to the more laid back and atmospheric vibe of World Showcase.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Instead of building GoTG at UoE, they really ought to just build the Mt Fuji coaster (think Matterhorn for Epcot). That was something originally in the plan (or at least conceptually - I think there are some plans drawn up for it). It'd be a "thrill" ride (I mean, Matterhorn is a thrill ride but, by today's standards, it's pretty tame - doesn't mean it sucks, though).

Then if they just fleshed out the other country-specific rides that were on the drawing board way back when then Epcot, at least the World Showcase portion, starts to look pretty good.

Unfortunately, none of those ideas are IPs so they're all dead.

 

[Tegan pilots a chicken]

It's dead. Going forward I just hope that they will make it a cohesive park and at least ATTEMPT to retain some of the idealism from its inception.

I actually have quite a few ideas for this. I'm currently working on some sketches and eventually I'm going to be building some crude miniatures. I'll be sharing with the forums.