Why doesn't WDW put extinct rides in Disney Springs or Boardwalk?

Lensman

Well-Known Member
I have been going to WDW since it opened and before that Disneyland. Me I am just waiting for the day when they gut a good chunk of Frontieerland/Island/RiverBoat and Liberty Square. From Tom Sawer at Thunder Mt side, to Haunted Mansion back to the railroad tracks, Liberty Square and many of the shops and shooting gallery, it is a huge plot of land. Liberty Square has little going, the River Boat isn't a huge hourly draw and neither is Tom's Island. That can all be redeveloped into a new land with modern attractions when the time is right for Disney as it is under utilized acreage. We see what happened to Birthdayland/Toon Town and multiple times shortening the track for the Indy Cars to accommodate both Circus and Tron. When push comes to shove a boat and an Island isn't likely enough to not consider redeveloping those acres.
I think Tom Sawyer's Island and the front half of Rivers of America are a critical aspect of the theming of Frontierland. Get rid of that and you're basically saying get rid of Frontierland which I think we all agree is a bad idea.

Regarding the idea about having more activities at Disney Springs, I think it's an interesting concept, but we should discuss implementation. DisneyQuest didn't do all that well for some reason, but there do seem to be new VR activities popping up. It's a nice idea to move old attractions to DS, but I agree with everyone else that it's impractical. Operating costs are probably high and the redesign and rebuild costs also make it mostly impractical.

OTOH, I'd like to see them move Aladdin's Magic Carpet Ride out of Adventureland. Maybe they could move it to the Springs? Or if they ever decide to retire the Teacups (which I wouldn't want them to), I could see them moving them to the Springs.

So moving a spinner might be practical, but moving a dark ride just seems much more difficult. I'm not sure if Disney has any dark rides whose construction facilitates moving like carnival dark rides would.
 

Tick Tock

Well-Known Member
No era is safe or sacred. Both Disneyland and Disney World evolve. Times change.
This is true. Walt believed this as well. He was an advocate for looking forward and creating new horizons.

But he also understood the significance of the past, and wanted American history to be a key player in some of the stories throughout his park.
New ideas, creative IP's, and celebrating times before ours can easily coexist. Keeping lands such as Liberty Square, Frontierland, and their underlying themes intact is crucial and part of the bedrock of Disney.

366621
 
Last edited:

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
This is true. Walt believed this as well. He was an advocate for looking forward and creating new horizons.

But he also understood the significance of the past, and wanted American history to be a key player in some of the stories throughout his park.
New ideas, creative IP's, and celebrating times before ours can easily coexist. Keeping lands such as Liberty Square, Frontierland, and their underlying themes intact is crucial and part of the bedrock of Disney.

View attachment 366621

I don't disagree with the warm and fuzzies of nostalgia. Walt wanted a place where families could go and spend a day together with their families. That no longer describes most visitors to WDW.

In this century Disney is not a place most can afford to do what Walt envisioned initially. By the time Walt got to Epcot visions Walt's own dreams had changed. Now Walt is long gone and visions for the 21st century are here. Roy tried to rein Walt in while he was alive and after he passed along Roy did make a few of Walt's dreams come true in Florida. Walt's Dream of Epcot is not what was planned by Walt but still awesome.
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
Keeping lands such as Liberty Square, Frontierland, and their underlying themes intact is crucial and part of the bedrock of Disney.
The only thing that I think qualifies as "crucial" and "part of the bedrock" is Mickey, himself, and even Mickey can evolve over time.

We recently buried the last of the previous generation in our family. That generation lived through Depression and World War and Cold War and cultural revolution, but what seems to have shook some of them more than any of that is how even the things that seemed to them could never and would never change did. A few of the mavericks adapted and adjusted; most of them didn't. Most of them struggled with how things changed over time, seemingly (to them) for no good reason. Coincidentally, we've been working to downsize and part of that has been going through 50+ years of documents and records, both ours and those of our parents whose documents and records we inherited when they passed. In those papers, I found a letter my mother (one of those mavericks) wrote over 40 years ago to us, her children. Her words of advice clearly outlined the different approach she took to "the bedrock changing" underneath her as compared to, for example, my father. She wrote quite a lot, but the bottom-line advice was "Be flexible." That seems to have been a key to the difference between the beauty she saw in the world in her last years as compared to the worry and disdain with the world that my father saw in his last years.

"Everything changes and ends." It is a maxim so irrefutable that you can find myriad attributions for it - David Richo, most notably. A lot of people read that maxim and see it as fatalistic instead of the reality - as a helpful warning about how to stay positive as you get older. "When we oppose [this basic fact] ... we resist reality, and life then becomes an endless series of disappointments, frustrations, and sorrows." By embracing change instead of seeing change as a bad thing, the beauty of the world (as my mother saw it) remains clear.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
It never was.
Very true when you consider that when he first opened Disneyland it was 1 dollar to get in and then an additional 10 to 30 cents per ride... which might sound cheap but then you have to realize the average movie ticket back then was less than 50 cents... Those price are pretty steep when you imagine the amount of money the average person in the US made... Disney has always targeted the people with the most money, they left the lower half of the population to the traveling carnivals and state fairs.
 

Hcalvert

Well-Known Member
A free, high-quality ride in Disney Springs would certainly draw more crowds, which would generate more revenue for everything else at the place. Hershey does something similar, the ride is free and they even give you a free chocolate bar when you get off, and you can ride as many times as you'd like. And they've made a great deal of money off of me because of it.
I used to work as a houseparent at the boarding school owned by the Hershey company. I loved going to Chocolate World and making my own customized candy bar and going to the Hershey Story's Chocolate Lab, too.
 

Tick Tock

Well-Known Member
The only thing that I think qualifies as "crucial" and "part of the bedrock" is Mickey, himself, and even Mickey can evolve over time.

We recently buried the last of the previous generation in our family. That generation lived through Depression and World War and Cold War and cultural revolution, but what seems to have shook some of them more than any of that is how even the things that seemed to them could never and would never change did. A few of the mavericks adapted and adjusted; most of them didn't. Most of them struggled with how things changed over time, seemingly (to them) for no good reason. Coincidentally, we've been working to downsize and part of that has been going through 50+ years of documents and records, both ours and those of our parents whose documents and records we inherited when they passed. In those papers, I found a letter my mother (one of those mavericks) wrote over 40 years ago to us, her children. Her words of advice clearly outlined the different approach she took to "the bedrock changing" underneath her as compared to, for example, my father. She wrote quite a lot, but the bottom-line advice was "Be flexible." That seems to have been a key to the difference between the beauty she saw in the world in her last years as compared to the worry and disdain with the world that my father saw in his last years.

"Everything changes and ends." It is a maxim so irrefutable that you can find myriad attributions for it - David Richo, most notably. A lot of people read that maxim and see it as fatalistic instead of the reality - as a helpful warning about how to stay positive as you get older. "When we oppose [this basic fact] ... we resist reality, and life then becomes an endless series of disappointments, frustrations, and sorrows." By embracing change instead of seeing change as a bad thing, the beauty of the world (as my mother saw it) remains clear.
It seems perfectly reasonable and yes, "flexible" for the park to have corners that innovate, corners that incorporate IP's, and corners that focus on themes of the past. They can coexist and please guests who appreciate each and all. You walk under those very words as you enter the front gates, and there is no expiration date attached.
4212019a.jpg

Modern innovation looking forward, IP's taking us into the world of make-believe, and glimpses into the past. This is the bedrock of Disney. They can all coexist.
 

KDM31091

Well-Known Member
Nostalgia is a powerful thing. While I would love to see something like this happen, the fact is that ridership at attractions like Horizons, Mr Toad, etc was obviously down and this is part of the reason they closed. While initially, if reopened/re-imagined, they would draw big crowds due to nostalgia, I can't help thinking it would be short lived. Even in, say, Horizons or Toad's final years, even many of those who loved them were probably prioritizing newer attractions and not stopping to ride the older ones on every visit.

I find it very hard to think the average guest is going to make a beeline for something like Horizons when there is Star Wars land to be visited. Unfortunately, the general public is just fine with the IP thing, and that's what is popular. Bringing back older attractions that were never headliner attractions to begin with would be fun, but I don't think it would be cost effective for Disney, so I don't see them doing it.
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
Nostalgia is a powerful thing.
It is, but it is remarkable how often "nostalgia" differs from the actual past. The theming of Disneyland was a remarkable exercise in crafted nostalgia: Main Street USA was an idealized and romanticized interpretation of (only) the fond memories Walt had of Marceline. And don't get me started on how far off, and in what direction, Frontierland was from the actual.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
It is, but it is remarkable how often "nostalgia" differs from the actual past. The theming of Disneyland was a remarkable exercise in crafted nostalgia: Main Street USA was an idealized and romanticized interpretation of (only) the fond memories Walt had of Marceline. And don't get me started on how far off, and in what direction, Frontierland was from the actual.
I like that in LIberty Square, though, they at least acknowledged that the streets of colonial America would have been a morass of urine and poop, without actually recreating those conditions...
 

DuckTalesWooHoo1987

Well-Known Member
If I could ride the Skyway, 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, Mr. Toad, Snow White's Scary Adventure, The Great Movie Ride, go back to Streets of America and Toontown, Alien Encounter, and that ride sponsored by Delta in the 90's about flight in Tomorrowland, and not have the waits the current parks do these days I might never leave that park. LOL!
 

DuckTalesWooHoo1987

Well-Known Member
It is, but it is remarkable how often "nostalgia" differs from the actual past. The theming of Disneyland was a remarkable exercise in crafted nostalgia: Main Street USA was an idealized and romanticized interpretation of (only) the fond memories Walt had of Marceline. And don't get me started on how far off, and in what direction, Frontierland was from the actual.
That's what I think the cool kids refer to today as the "Mandela Effect". It's basically when you claim to have strong memories of something that never actually happened. Like when people quote Michael Douglas as saying "Greed is good" but he never actually said that. Or when people quote Darth Vader as saying "Luke, I am your father" when he never actually said that. There are just things that enter all of our collective conscience and we think of them as "reality" when, in actual reality, they are just fragments of the actual truth of how things actually were. That being said, I still feel like Main St hearkens back to a bygone era when things were much simpler and arguably better in a lot of ways and I do appreciate the "spirit" of what it tries to capture.
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
... they are just fragments of the actual truth of how things actually were. That being said, I still feel like Main St hearkens back to a bygone era when things were much simpler and arguably better in a lot of ways and I do appreciate the "spirit" of what it tries to capture.
The point is that things weren't better ("arguably" or otherwise). If you only look at "fragments of the actual truth" then you aren't seeing truth. For example, Heppenheimer mentioned above how Liberty Square is missing the morass of urine and poop that would reflect the actual truth of what is depicted. The full internalization of the actual truth would reveal that things weren't better, and that what we're appreciating is fantasy.

There is a danger in people thinking that the nostalgia that they enjoy is anything other than fantasy, that it is anything more than a crafted story for entertainment purposes only. The misapprehension about nostalgia provides very dangerous cover for embracing aspects of what was before and thereby fosters reactionaryism. We cannot move forward as a dynamic society, and cannot retain the fantastic gains we've made with regard to so many aspects of life for so many people, if too many people are effectively caught up in reactionaryism.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
As also has been pointed out, many of the younger generation would Not be impressed with things we loved 30 years ago.
Thats a bit presumptuous. Whats the average wait time for Peter Pans Flight on any given day? How many kids love riding POTC, Haunted Mansion, SSE, etc? All rides that have basically been around since the parks opened and still are enjoyed children and adults alike.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that if Horizons was still there today that it would have a wait time on par with SSE. Im not saying they should build it, but to claim that the younger generation of today would not be impressed or enjoy classic rides is mostly proven false when looking at the older attractions that still exist.
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
But 10 years ago nobody would have thought StarWars would bulldoze areas of Walt's Disneyland or the Studios. My point is it a huge chunk of land in the Magic Kingdom that is vastly under utilized. Nothing in Tom Sawyer or Liberty is a huge draw nor the River Boat. It is prime picking for a future picking to expand Disney IPs. They can still leave half of Frontierland and blow off the balance of that and Liberty Square that has nothing to offer beyond Presidents that could be relocated or just removed. Presidents isn't a huge draw to start with and given the ugly need to have 3 security guards now in the theater the could be willing to just let it go.
We already have an issue at WDW with cohesive theming starting to disappear, especially at DHS, and doing what you propose would start destroying this cohesiveness in a park that has no issue with this. And please tell me why we need space for more IPs? IPs are currently well represented at MK. Just because a land has areas that do not have huge crowds or 2 hour lines, does not mean they are under utilized; sometimes, it's all about theming, immersion and visual beauty. Standing right beside the RoA, in the area that transitions between Liberty Square and Frontierland, watching the Liberty Belle paddle by, watching the rafts going to and from the island, seeing the buildings on the island and BTMRR on the left and HM on the right-you won't get a much better view in any park at WDW. I would much rather see the Tomorrowland Speedway and the Dumbo's circus area bulldozed for something new instead of any part of any other land at MK.
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
If you can walk through Toy Story Land and complain about lack of cohesive theming then nothing will ever satisfy you.

I suspect some people simply don't like Disney's decision to theme attractions and lands rather than have a single theme for a full park, and they are trying to make that preference sounds more important than it is.
 

mm121

Well-Known Member
I don't think you would need to charge people anything. Disney probably would, but they wouldn't need to. I think it would be a nice touch in a place like that. Surely they still have part of the ride track and cars sitting around somewhere don't they? It would be like a carnival ride, people would go on it, especially people that knew it when it was here.
They really don't keep old stuff around like many people think.

Once the Backtour closed at DHS the teams were almost immediately sold off.

As much as it would be cool to have a history of Disney museum, Disney simply just doesn't think that way and once something is no longer useful and generating REVENUE they get rid of it. There's not some big warehouse full of old Disney ride junk that I'm aware of.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom