Why do you believe WDW has gone downhill?

[eliza61nyc]

This is my problem with Disney in a nutshell. You are right, lots of younger people had no clue about most of the movies, and the ride wasn't nearly as popular anymore. So just close or replace seems to be Disneys plan. The great movie ride is the one ride that could always have been updated to stay fresh and relevant. But in true Disney fashion, it's do nothing for 30yrs, then replace it instead of fix it. It shows the extreme shortsighted view of Disney. TGMR would have been a great way to showcase Disney movies that could never really get an attraction on their own. Especially with a company that always wants to push its own stuff. New rides and new IPs are great. But do it the right way. Put it where it makes sense, don't guardians or frozen it. And make it an addition instead of replacing something. With 3 parks needing capacity, there is little reason not to be adding attractions instead of replacing.

Absolutely. I had heard that the folks who own Wizard of Oz wanted a crazy amount of money to use it but the mouse man definitely has lots of inventory.
I adore the Muppets in 3D but it's another that's long in the tooth. It would be wonderful if they updated that and not completely get rid of it.

 

[GeoffR]

lol, ok take my opinion with a grain of salt, I am probably the only one here who is slap happy they are replacing the old stuff.

Are you confusing relevancy with originality maybe?? Splash mountain is not relevant, most of today's kids have never seen it and probably never will unless they get a boot leg copy. The examples you mentioned are probably the last of the true creative originality but relevant to today's consumer? naw.

I personally have no problem with them kicking out the old stuff, the majority of folks (not on fan boards) thought Ellen was beyond boring. It was the ride folks did to get out of the heat and catch a quick snooze, Even here how many times do we joke about which rides are dull as dishwater and sleep worthy.
Yes, 40 years from now we will be talking about the star wars franchise, maybe not specific films but the overall franchise will be popular.
How old is the Marvel universe??? Captain America was debuted in 1941!!! lol most of the original audience from world war II is dead and yet those characters are as popular as ever. One of the things I give Stan lee mad props for is keeping his stuff fresh and relevant.

Sorry IMO star Wars land will be as popular as any of the old rides we have now IF it is done well.

I respectfully disagree. I think it's brilliant. WDW was becoming the parks for old people and babies. I use to laugh when I rode the Great movie ride because after Alien and Wizard of Oz the majority of kids had absolutely no idea who or what the other films where. lol you really think Johnny Weissmuller is relevant?

I think GotG is more relevant and appealing to today's youth than Ellen and Alex trebic but of course that does get into the discussions on what the target audience for the world should be.

I think the next question is how much the modern consumer takes in once on the ride? unfortunately we are entering in the time of short attention spans and instant gratification. when on splash mountain are they following along the story? don't know.

Good points. However, though Marvel is an older property, the movies are not, so the fact that Cap is from the 1940s is irrelevant because his movies are less than 10 years old. I will argue that though the Song of the South is unknown to most people, it draws interest into the characters of the ride/film because the ride is so well done. So, rather than the film inspiring the ride interest, the ride is so well done it's inspiring interest into where these characters come from. I would also argue that most attractions nowadays do not abide by this, and rely on the IP of the film garnering interest in the ride, rather than the ride being so amazing it makes the consumer want to learn about the IP. Take TOT for example. It inspired me, personally, to learn about the Twilight Zone and now it's my favorite TV series ever. The ride inspired interest. Same for Big Thunder. The ride is so great, I want to learn the story behind it, and what the imagineers were thinking and what objects mean what, etc. People go on these newer attractions because of the IP laced into them.

Good points though, and I get where you're coming from.

 

[flynnibus]

I will argue that though the Song of the South is unknown to most people, it draws interest into the characters of the ride/film because the ride is so well done. So, rather than the film inspiring the ride interest, the ride is so well done it's inspiring interest into where these characters come from

Imagine if Splash was instead a flat river ride like River Journey... and then try to make an honest assessment of the attraction and if it would be as popular.

Splash works because it blends story, an interesting/immersive atmosphere, and a entertaining ride system. It is the support of all three of those elements that makes it why the attraction succeeds even if someone isn't a fan of the story, and why it doesn't have to be a world class ride system. It strikes a balance where 2 of the other legs can support one missing for someone.

It also finds a happy medium of 'thrill' level where it has elements that are appealing to both young, middle, and old.

Most don't have any idea of the story behind SotS - but because the fox/rabbit story is basically the same as most fables/moral stories.. they can get the jist pretty easily without specific familiarity with the characters. It's more 'generic'

 

[TwilightZone]

I would add the parks trying to stay relevant in the short term.

Tower of Terror is over 20 years old, based on an IP from 1959-1965, Splash Moutain is over 25 years old, based on an IP from 1946, Haunted Mansion is an original idea and so is Pirates and Big Thunder...all of which are over 40 years old. Do you see Guardians of the Galaxy, Ratatouille, Pandora, and all these other new attractions having relevancy like this? I personally don't.

Ummm

If you go by release date of the IPs alone, all three of these IPs are now considered classic. Less recent than you would think.
Which means, yes, they WOULD be relevant (arguable for avatar, but the rides already proven themselves to be successful enough to be relevant in their own rights).

 

[ChrisFL]

It's sometimes difficult to pinpoint this because IMO there's always things improving in some ways, and declining in others. It's rarely all going to crap at the same time (though that has happened as well, arguably in the late 90's/early 00's)

 

[GeoffR]

Imagine if Splash was instead a flat river ride like River Journey... and then try to make an honest assessment of the attraction and if it would be as popular.

Splash works because it blends story, an interesting/immersive atmosphere, and a entertaining ride system. It is the support of all three of those elements that makes it why the attraction succeeds even if someone isn't a fan of the story, and why it doesn't have to be a world class ride system. It strikes a balance where 2 of the other legs can support one missing for someone.

It also finds a happy medium of 'thrill' level where it has elements that are appealing to both young, middle, and old.

Most don't have any idea of the story behind SotS - but because the fox/rabbit story is basically the same as most fables/moral stories.. they can get the jist pretty easily without specific familiarity with the characters. It's more 'generic'

Yes, but what I'm saying is these rides are so well done it peaks interest into their IPs. For me, as a kid, I was always so curious as to where the characters came from, and my love for the ride drove that. There are so many log flume attractions throughout the world, but this one is so special because it, like you said, combines both elements so well.

It's all subjective, and this is an opinion based forum, and I think WDW doing less of these type (strong ride vs strong IP) of concepts is a negative attribute

 

[GeoffR]

Ummm

If you go by release date of the IPs alone, all three of these IPs are now considered classic. Less recent than you would think.
Which means, yes, they WOULD be relevant (arguable for avatar, but the rides already proven themselves to be successful enough to be relevant in their own rights).

Agree to disagree, but I don't consider Ratatouille or Avatar, or Guardians classics. It's subjective.

However, I would say very very few people correlate the Guardians with a 1960s comic, and more with a 2014 film. My point being, people will ride the ride because of the movie, not the comics, and the comics didn't directly inspire the ride, the films did which are very loosely based off those 1960s comics. Based on how WDW used to do attractions, they would have a solid attraction, regardless of IP association.

Good points though.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Yes, but what I'm saying is these rides are so well done it peaks interest into their IPs. For me, as a kid, I was always so curious as to where the characters came from, and my love for the ride drove that. There are so many log flume attractions throughout the world, but this one is so special because it, like you said, combines both elements so well.

It's all subjective, and this is an opinion based forum, and I think WDW doing less of these type (strong ride vs strong IP) of concepts is a negative attribute

I wonder if that would work nowadays? I mean with today's crowd lol unfortunately/fortunately my sons (3) grew up right at the explosions of video games, hand held devices and explosion of technology. they honestly just never cared about the back story to any of the rides that they couldn't attach to a movie. They did watch a few episodes of the twilight zone but again, it was interesting but when you got a generation that is use to Harry Potter and Thor, well TZ comes in dead last.
we've sat and watched many of Martin's videos and the overwhelming response has been charming giggles and gladness that the rides are "better" so it could be a case of they don't know what they don't know.
They have their favorites but they are always asking what's new. my youngest feels it's time for PoTC and Indiana Jones to go. They simply are in a generation that gets instant gratification and new versions every 10 days.

 

[flynnibus]

It's all subjective, and this is an opinion based forum, and I think WDW doing less of these type (strong ride vs strong IP) of concepts is a negative attribute

It's Disney chasing a 'sugar high' - you'll find conversations on this in the past, especially around New Fantasyland. Disney is chasing elements, without putting on a complete package. It's like a hot woman.. that is a complete airhead. Looks great, but not one you want to stick with in the long run... because it lacks the real supporting pieces. It's also why most knock-offs of Disney classics fail to match the original.. not because it's not new/different... but because they copy elements without really focusing on what really makes it work.

Disney's most revered attractions have lasted decades usually because of the sum of the parts - rarely because they were exceptional in one category alone.

 

[flynnibus]

I wonder if that would work nowadays? I mean with today's crowd lol unfortunately/fortunately my sons (3) grew up right at the explosions of video games, hand held devices and explosion of technology. they honestly just never cared about the back story to any of the rides that they couldn't attach to a movie. They did watch a few episodes of the twilight zone but again, it was interesting but when you got a generation that is use to Harry Potter and Thor, well TZ comes in dead last.
we've sat and watched many of Martin's videos and the overwhelming response has been charming giggles and gladness that the rides are "better" so it could be a case of they don't know what they don't know.
They have their favorites but they are always asking what's new. my youngest feels it's time for PoTC and Indiana Jones to go. They simply are in a generation that gets instant gratification and new versions every 10 days.

A big difference is what is 'impressive' or not - the current generations are used to flawless CGI - nothing is impossible anymore.. its only limited by imagination. There is no 'zOMG how did they do that' with most media they see now. The idea of stunts being dangerous and risky and thus influencing the audience died back the Matrix-era. So the awe is lost on them. Looking at those attractions now they would feel quaint or less significant when you completely remove the scale and cutting edge elements out of them.

Things like large format films... people would go out of their way to see large 70mm presentations of movies... and EPCOT had MANY large format films made exclusively for it. Things like being in the imax dome of Horizons for the shuttle launch you can't recreate by simply watching a youtube film. The scale of things like UoE... and when the theaters first start moving.. were unheard of. A kid today raised on CGI will not be impressed with the same show elements that were drawn up nearly 40 years ago.

You can't simply go back and repeat 1981 designs in 2018 and say "see, they weren't really that good" simply because a 2018 audience isn't in awe of them. Today, you'd have to impress in other ways.

Familiarity with the subject matter is really a lesser point relative to the strength of the attraction experience itself. A great attraction will establish the necessary story elements without requiring pre-existing knowledge. It may be more appreciated by those with insight, but you don't want to make it mandatory to hit the middle of the curve.

Audiences today are so much more seasoned in what they've experienced before that you can't take 1979 strategies and rate them with 2018 test subjects. But the core creative ideas and principles that were incorporated in the show concepts.. can still ring true.

And wowing guests is still possible... Just look at WoC when it was done even tho Belligio was done decades earlier.. or look at the Magic Mirror in Belle's Cottage... or the disappearing monkey in Toyko's ToT. Some still work great, like the Mansion's ballroom... others have advancements in technologies or experiences date them.

 

[Miss Bella]

lol, ok take my opinion with a grain of salt, I am probably the only one here who is slap happy they are replacing the old stuff.

Are you confusing relevancy with originality maybe?? Splash mountain is not relevant, most of today's kids have never seen it and probably never will unless they get a boot leg copy. The examples you mentioned are probably the last of the true creative originality but relevant to today's consumer? naw.

I personally have no problem with them kicking out the old stuff, the majority of folks (not on fan boards) thought Ellen was beyond boring. It was the ride folks did to get out of the heat and catch a quick snooze, Even here how many times do we joke about which rides are dull as dishwater and sleep worthy.
Yes, 40 years from now we will be talking about the star wars franchise, maybe not specific films but the overall franchise will be popular.
How old is the Marvel universe??? Captain America was debuted in 1941!!! lol most of the original audience from world war II is dead and yet those characters are as popular as ever. One of the things I give Stan lee mad props for is keeping his stuff fresh and relevant.

Sorry IMO star Wars land will be as popular as any of the old rides we have now IF it is done well.

I respectfully disagree. I think it's brilliant. WDW was becoming the parks for old people and babies. I use to laugh when I rode the Great movie ride because after Alien and Wizard of Oz the majority of kids had absolutely no idea who or what the other films where. lol you really think Johnny Weissmuller is relevant?

I think GotG is more relevant and appealing to today's youth than Ellen and Alex trebic but of course that does get into the discussions on what the target audience for the world should be.

I think the next question is how much the modern consumer takes in once on the ride? unfortunately we are entering in the time of short attention spans and instant gratification. when on splash mountain are they following along the story? don't know.

I have very tech savvy teens. One of which spends most of free time on fortnight, minecraft, he has all the latest gaming systems, newest note 9 phone. He loves animation and designing. The same kid loved the great movie ride, hall of presidents, country bear jamboree. Splash mountain is his favorite ride and he's totally enamored with anything Disney.

I have another teen who loves Star Wars and Marvel, but at age 16 finds Disney World boring and would rather go to Europe or Asia or some other exotic destination.

I have extended family members that love Disney and some that absolutely abhor it. I don't know if there's anything Disney could do to win over the haters. I've always felt like Disney appeals to certain personalities and doesn't appeal to certain personalities. I'm not sure Disney could do anything to change that.

 

[Miss Bella]

Are standards declining or is it just stale because you’ve been so many times.? I’ve been on 20 DCL cruises and I get more critical with every cruise. Is it DCL or is it me? Im going to give Royal a try next year.

 

[Dunston]

This is get more expensive, while the offerings are being taken away one by one. E.g. park hours are shorter, while tickets are more expensive. That's the way I see it--changes like IP in the parks aren't my preference, but I don't think they have made the parks objectively less enjoyable to everyone in the way that price increases paired with decreased experiences do.

 

[Christian Fronckowiak]

My complaint is with the level of homogenization between the parks and resorts, mainly influenced by a prerequisite of IP in order to get an attraction built today. The Walt Disney Company of the 20th century funded the construction of attractions designed to further the integrity and cohesion of the various parks. It's now more about extending a brand through the the park and resorts division, than allowing P&R to flourish with brand new attractions in its various theme parks.
I still believe that had Westcot been built, it could have minimized the homogenization because, in theory, the Future World attractions for Westcot could have provided Epcot's Future World with its third generation update for the 2000s, and then the Walt Disney Studios Park could have provided the same for Disney-MGM. Unfortunately, with only Disneyland sister parks (WDSP aside), the only way that the R&D can be spread throughout the resorts is for the dilution of the themes and concepts behind Epcot, DHS, DAK (though Joe Rodhe has been a good guard), and DCA.

 

[Bpmorley]

Are standards declining or is it just stale because you’ve been so many times.? I’ve been on 20 DCL cruises and I get more critical with every cruise. Is it DCL or is it me? Im going to give Royal a try next year.

I think it's a combination of both.

 

[Miss Bella]

I think it's a combination of both.

Having spent some time on cruise critic researching cruiselines the last few months. I’ve seen numerous threads about increasing costs and decreasing perks and service. I’m not sure it’s exclusive to just Disney vacations. Unless you’ve been a customer of a certain brand for a number of years you wouldn’t notice.

 

[BrerJon]

Visiting Tokyo Disneyland today is like visiting the Magic Kingdom of the early 90s. It shows that a) you can have a successful park run to the standards of today, reasonable prices (Tokyo is far, far cheaper) and have great guest satisfaction.

The contrast between Tokyo Disneyland and Magic Kingdom makes it obvious things have declined in WDW - Tokyo originally was modelled on the Magic Kingdom and was the younger sibling, it never used to be so superior.

 

[Christian Fronckowiak]

Visiting Tokyo Disneyland today is like visiting the Magic Kingdom of the early 90s. It shows that a) you can have a successful park run to the standards of today, reasonable prices (Tokyo is far, far cheaper) and have great guest satisfaction.

The contrast between Tokyo Disneyland and Magic Kingdom makes it obvious things have declined in WDW - Tokyo originally was modelled on the Magic Kingdom and was the younger sibling, it never used to be so superior.

What happens when the parks are a standalone product, rather than under a division blended among consumer products and other experiences. (#ThanksShanghai)

 

[LeighM]

I wonder if that would work nowadays? I mean with today's crowd lol unfortunately/fortunately my sons (3) grew up right at the explosions of video games, hand held devices and explosion of technology. they honestly just never cared about the back story to any of the rides that they couldn't attach to a movie. They did watch a few episodes of the twilight zone but again, it was interesting but when you got a generation that is use to Harry Potter and Thor, well TZ comes in dead last.

Call me The Weird One but I was born in 1981 and experienced the beginnings of Nintendo, personal household computers, and the internet and I absolutely LOVE the Twilight Zone. In fact, I'll watch the marathon every New Year when I'm able. While I love Harry Potter (the books are SO MUCH better than the movies!!) and would marry Thor if given the chance, I would still chose Rod Serling's Twilight Zone any day of the week. I don't think it's always fair to group "todays crowd" into one group. I had seen all of those old, classic movies that were highlighted in the Great Movie Ride. I know who all the actors and actresses are from the classic silver screen. I'm the young curmudgeon that complains about them just giving out stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame to a bunch of non talented actors that will be forgotten in 10 years or less. And actually many of my close friends at the time much preferred Elvis, Bill Haley, and Fats Domino over the popular at the time Nsync and Backstreet Boys. A friend and I would sit in her car before class in HS and sing and car dance to Jailhouse Rock before starting our day LOL.

 

[Miss Bella]

Call me The Weird One but I was born in 1981 and experienced the beginnings of Nintendo, personal household computers, and the internet and I absolutely LOVE the Twilight Zone. In fact, I'll watch the marathon every New Year when I'm able. While I love Harry Potter (the books are SO MUCH better than the movies!!) and would marry Thor if given the chance, I would still chose Rod Serling's Twilight Zone any day of the week. I don't think it's always fair to group "todays crowd" into one group. I had seen all of those old, classic movies that were highlighted in the Great Movie Ride. I know who all the actors and actresses are from the classic silver screen. I'm the young curmudgeon that complains about them just giving out stars on the Hollywood Walk of Fame to a bunch of non talented actors that will be forgotten in 10 years or less. And actually many of my close friends at the time much preferred Elvis, Bill Haley, and Fats Domino over the popular at the time Nsync and Backstreet Boys. A friend and I would sit in her car before class in HS and sing and car dance to Jailhouse Rock before starting our day LOL.

Yes but you’re 37. That’s really not that young. No offense but I think it would be more of a rarity for teen or 20 something to be familiar with those movies. My teens have seen movies from the 70’s on, but I don’t think there willing to go back much farther then that.