Kram Sacul
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Okay but how is this thread different than the others? It’s getting old.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Why Disneyland’s $1 billion Star Wars land isn’t a bust despite flat attendance - OCR/SCNG
- Thread starter Darkbeer1
- Start date
Okay but how is this thread different than the others? It’s getting old.
It sucks that you're forced to read a thread about Star Wars and you don't want to read a thread about star wars. You're oppressed.
TOT is outstanding rethemed as GoG...and Marvel is getting their own land now - pending pandemic outcome.
Lazy rethemes for Kennedy? Guess you haven't read this thread and the people talking about how lazy GE is with the pelican cases everywhere.
DDLand
Well-Known Member
I’ll say it again. If Disney’s goal was to decrease attendance by raising prices, they could have avoided building a $1 billion dollar land. All they needed to do was... raise prices. If they wanted a new marketable ride they could have built an expansion to an existing land at a fraction of the price. This was not sold as incremental or to decrease crowding. Star Wars Land was sold as something that would radically increase attendance at Disneyland Resort. Hence the new parking garage, new hotel, new DVC, enhancements to walkways, etc. Local partners like Anaheim, Gardenwalk, and other hoteliers were expecting sizable attendance increases. The original gate tax deal was premised on Galaxy’s Edge being so popular that hotel tax revenue alone would more than compensate the no gate tax deal.
This gaslighting is unbelievable
In the video Trowbridge uses Legends of Frontierland as an EXAMPLE of a successful experiment. He even mentions the chickens! The whole role playing initiative Disney has been pushing is stupid. Theme park attractions are successful because they can swallow thousands of guests economically and simply and tell incredible stories. These sorts of games cannot scale within current technological constraints.
The force not making an appearance was also shortsighted. Missed opportunities all around...
Also the Blue Milk is putrid!
This gaslighting is unbelievable
Kim Irvine is not my favorite. This last castle redo told us everything we need to know about her artistic abilities...
These comments make me think Trowbridge is an insincere hack. Watch this video. The end is extremely perplexing in light of these comments he just made:From the article below, near the end:
...But giving guests a more active role is far from an exact science.
In 2014, Disneyland for instance introduced the live-action role-playing game the Legends of Frontierland. For several weeks, visitors were allowed to essentially battle for control of a fictional town set within the park’s vision of the Old West. Players could complete various tasks in the hopes of amassing little wooden tokens, “bits,” which could be used to buy land or bribe others. The team with the most land would win.
Today, Trowbridge describes Legends of Frontierland as a “spectacular failure.” The game’s economy system quickly proved troublesome. It lacked rules, and therefore players made their own. Trowbridge said guests were stealing latex gloves from food stands and blowing them up to create makeshift chickens in the hopes of selling them for bits.
“Guests were actually like, ‘Hey! Who wants to buy my chicken?’” Trowbridge says. “It was amazing to watch how much our guests wanted to play — that part was clear. But we also realized an in-game economy is a very tricky thing to manage. As an experiment, it was incredibly successful. As a prototype of ‘could we build this thing’ it was completely unsustainable.”
Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge is so ambitious Disneyland fans may not be ready for it
Here’s a familiar and effective design trick often used at theme parks: Corral guests under or through a passageway that forces the crowd to narrow before a grand reveal.www.latimes.com
In the video Trowbridge uses Legends of Frontierland as an EXAMPLE of a successful experiment. He even mentions the chickens! The whole role playing initiative Disney has been pushing is stupid. Theme park attractions are successful because they can swallow thousands of guests economically and simply and tell incredible stories. These sorts of games cannot scale within current technological constraints.
Star Tours provides the template. The queue is so alive with characters, aliens, and droids. It feels so cool! Think of Smuggler’s Run. The queue is a missed opportunity. There is practically no kinetics. It’s boring. There are more animated figures in the first room of Star Tours than the entire Millennium Falcon attraction. I wanted a Star Wars land where I could see droids and aliens up to crazy antics. Animated figures should have been sprinkled throughout the land. Where I differ is these should not be roaming or actors. Actors can be fired and droids will be destroyed by guests. They should have been integrated into small show scenes. The land should have been like a walking tour.
The force not making an appearance was also shortsighted. Missed opportunities all around...
Also the Blue Milk is putrid!
el_super
Well-Known Member
The goal was to make more money. They did.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
No just lazy retellings of the original trilogy.
smooch
Well-Known Member
They saw poor attendance and the parks only had an increase in profit due to spending in other parks / areas. Sure the whole park wasn't a ghost town but you can't make the claim that what happened is what Disney planned. They talked about how they wouldn't need to advertise the land cause people would fill the land. They did Project Stardust to increase the size of walkways because they anticipated huge crowds to fill the park, and then nothing. They saw practically the same attendance as before it opened, if not worse. If they just wanted to maintain crowd levels why open up areas of the park and spend all the time and money widening walkways and removing planters for the same crowd levels? Sure I'm not saying I know exactly what Disney wanted but to try and claim they just wanted to keep attendance levels the same and add all this land to existing crowd levels is a silly claim given everything around the opening of the land, there's no doubt they wanted to increase attendance and see a huge influx. Yeah the lightsabers and bar were booked constantly but that's not hard to do considering how abysmally low the number of people they could fit a day is, same with RotR.
You have to admit none of this rhetoric matches with what Disney was claiming would happen. They were talking about how packed to the gills the park would be with people visiting their new billion dollar land, they placed CM restrictions on attendance and tried to limit how many people were gonna come to the park. Then they saw a big wave of people during the reservation period of the land the month it opened, then when it opened to everyone they saw everyone who really cared already went and nobody was flooding the land so they lifted restrictions and made promotions to get more people into the park just months after adding the biggest expansion to Disneyland. They did not expect this to happen, they failed in their original plans for the land and have since done what Disney always does and tries to change the narrative and claim that they did exactly what they wanted. Even if that was true that's a horrible business model: spend a billion dollars on a new land just to have the same attendance numbers and with all that money and land used they just want to sell $200 lightsabers and some merch and overpriced drinks at Oga's Cantina. They could have made a much much smaller area and put those money making experiences in there and spent less money for the same profit. I'm not claiming Disney has absolutely fallen on its face with GE and that it was a complete failure, I'm just stating that Disney expected the opening of the land to go much different and now they're making different claims and trying to save face.
Last edited:
smooch
Well-Known Member
Because we're specifically responding to these claims the article makes about how this is what Disney wanted to see with the opening of their new land. If you want to believe Disney has said from the beginning they wanted the same levels of attendance as before and didn't expect huge crowds to be coming for years then you can believe that, but look at the claims they made before opening and all the work they did to prepare the park for "massive levels of crowds" that never came after the month of boarding groups into the land. Sure we are bringing up the same points previously of what was disappointing about the land and the things they promised then cut, etc. but it's not like this is just a random thread created to bash Star Wars. I just find it hilarious Disney is trying to spin the turnout they've had since the land opened as something they planned for and envisioned when creating GE when it is obviously not in the same tune of what they've been boldly claiming since the announcement, they're trying to save their reputation by claiming different things and that's what I'm calling out.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Poor attendance is a bad choice of words. It was still matching the attendance of the second most visited park in the world. It wasn't hurting for business at all. And saying that the increase in profit came from other parks is disingenuous at best. Specifically with regard to Disneyland they said:
Parks, Experiences and Products revenues for the quarter increased 8% to $6.7 billion, and segment operating income increased 17% to $1.4 billion. Operating income growth for the quarter was due to increases from merchandise licensing, Disneyland Resort and Disney Vacation Club.
Growth at Disneyland Resort was primarily due to higher guest spending, partially offset by expenses associated with Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, which opened on May 31, and, to a lesser extent, lower attendance. Guest spending growth was primarily due to increases in average ticket prices and higher food, beverage and merchandise spending.
BTW a 17% jump in operating income, is huge.
Sure you can (see OP).
It's really hard to gauge what Disney expected would happen (and most likely none of us really know), because their actions at different times indicated different directions. You're right that they seemed concerned that attendance would be radically out of control, but then they took actions to make sure that didn't happen (some of which you noted). So we know that they took very deliberate actions to control demand. They increased prices (some as high as 20%), reconfigured the AP system, they implemented restrictions on attendance and they implemented a reservation system.
And just for clarity here: you're trying to argue that they didn't plan for any of those actions they took to have an impact on attendance?
Which you're then assuming is a referendum on the quality of the land itself?
Long story short, they can make the attendance whatever they want it to be, so it's a useless metric for gauging the success of Star Wars Land. If you don't want to believe me, then you can try to come up with a good reason why Disneyland attendance was increasing from January through March.
Galaxy's Edge is one giant missed opportunity. From not doing the actual Mos Eisley Cantina, which would probably be the #1 Instagram photo spot next to Cinderella's castle in DW, to not incorporating any OT or PT characters or settings so that fans could connect with it. Instead, we got a place that has virtually no connection to any of the movies, and thus, no connection to the fans. Only the casuals really enjoy the land and the rest just tolerate it the best they can. I never wanted to leave the Galactic Nights special events because it had the first 6 movies in it. I'm bored after 30 mins in GE.
Sharon&Susan
Well-Known Member
Is it any more lazy than prominently having the old Matterhorn Yeti static as a prop with no attempt to have it make sense in-universe?
Or having the windows on the back of the tower painted bronze with no attempt to hide it beyond that?
Any more lazy than keeping the Art Deco Fastpass station the same? Or no attempt to make it match the rest of the style of Hollywood Land or the upcoming Avengers Campus?
Galaxy's Edge is no masterpiece or even that good with the possible exception of ROTR (but I still haven't ridden it or watched any ridethroughs so I can't give my thoughts on that yet), but even if the Imagineers somehow had the greatest ideas EVER for Star Wars, I'm glad that they kept it far away from Echo Lake (second best land in HS) and Tomorrowland (Star Wars is not and should not ever be solution to fixing Tomorrowland IMO)
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Galaxy's End is at least fully original. It's impeccably themed, it's just horribly themed.
GOTG does feel slapped together.
GOTG does feel slapped together.
smooch
Well-Known Member
I agree completely, GOTG feels cheaply done and scrapped together because they were told to make it rather than having an actual original vision to create a GOTG ride in the ToT footprint. GE however (from pictures / videos / consensuses from my friends [I haven't gone yet]) looks to be very well themed and aside from the lack of entertainment that get's discussed to death, what is there looks to be done very very well. There's no arguing the land doesn't look convincing. That said, the theme they executed so well is such a boring theme, it has no ties to any movie in any way and it is just what looks like a war torn town. I know that SW has a lived in / dirty look, but when the land is based on a location nobody has ever heard of or seen in any movie / game / anything aside from a comic series made specifically for the land then it doesn't look like some "SW location recreation" it just looks like a random dirty town. I know the issues of making a land based off something from a movie but I still think they needed to compromise and do a mix of both. Oga's should've just been the Mos Eisley Cantina, it doesn't matter if it isn't actually on Batuu. This is why the timeline restriction is so dumb and ruins what can be done. They could've put the Cantina in and then done the forest area to have Ewok Villages in the trees and things like that, make a unique planet / land but incorporate elements / places from ALL trilogies so EVERYONE can connect since they care so much about inclusive experiences you can relate too. I wasn't a big fan of the ST movies so I don't think I will connect to the land / characters aside from seeing the Falcon and Chewie.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
I’ll say this again, as I’ve said before. Universal parks had a lot of attendance to gain, LOTS. Of course their moderately attended parks would see HUGE gains after finally adding substantially themed, immersive, and loved franchises.
I honestly don’t believe for a second that Disneyland really has that much more room to grow attendance wise. The parks are already maxed during the key travel periods, and it is the #2 most attended in the country, and realistically I’d say attendances beats MK as most people park hop and use DCA as just an extension of Disneyland.
My point being, Disneyland doesn’t need the attendance increase headlines like Universal did, nor did they need those gains. I firmly think the execs also realize this, especially with the AP base. Their goal is to increase spending, and they certainly have.
And let’s be real, money went up last summer, and the parks were blissful.
I honestly don’t believe for a second that Disneyland really has that much more room to grow attendance wise. The parks are already maxed during the key travel periods, and it is the #2 most attended in the country, and realistically I’d say attendances beats MK as most people park hop and use DCA as just an extension of Disneyland.
My point being, Disneyland doesn’t need the attendance increase headlines like Universal did, nor did they need those gains. I firmly think the execs also realize this, especially with the AP base. Their goal is to increase spending, and they certainly have.
And let’s be real, money went up last summer, and the parks were blissful.
Here comes the gimmicks...
www.ocregister.com
>>
A trio of Star Wars seasonal events tied to a local Batuuan harvest festival, a delightfully bad 1970s Christmas television special and the film franchise’s unofficial May the Fourth holiday could be coming soon to the twin Galaxy’s Edge themed lands at Disneyland and Disney World.
A new Star Wars book from Lucasfilm and Walt Disney Imagineering reveals new details about the Black Spire Day, Batuaan Harvest Festival and Life Day local holidays celebrated annually in Galaxy’s Edge.
Wait? What? Disneyland and Disney World haven’t held any festivals yet in the new Star Wars lands. Easter Eggs cleverly woven into a new Batuu travel guide offer hints of what may lay ahead for the Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge themed lands.<<
Are 3 Star Wars seasonal festivals coming to Disneyland’s Galaxy’s Edge?
A new Star Wars book from Lucasfilm and Walt Disney Imagineering reveals new details about the Black Spire Day, Batuaan Harvest Festival and Life Day local holidays celebrated annually in Galaxy’s …
www.ocregister.com
>>
A trio of Star Wars seasonal events tied to a local Batuuan harvest festival, a delightfully bad 1970s Christmas television special and the film franchise’s unofficial May the Fourth holiday could be coming soon to the twin Galaxy’s Edge themed lands at Disneyland and Disney World.
A new Star Wars book from Lucasfilm and Walt Disney Imagineering reveals new details about the Black Spire Day, Batuaan Harvest Festival and Life Day local holidays celebrated annually in Galaxy’s Edge.
Wait? What? Disneyland and Disney World haven’t held any festivals yet in the new Star Wars lands. Easter Eggs cleverly woven into a new Batuu travel guide offer hints of what may lay ahead for the Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge themed lands.<<
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Ugh
SoCalMort
Well-Known Member
I think he is saying the same thing in both the article and video: They conducted an experiment to answer the question: "Would this game work in real life?" The experiment was an incredible success because it definitively answered that question: "Absolutely not."
It's just the video was edited to leave a certain impression.....
SoCalMort
Well-Known Member
DDLand
Well-Known Member
In the months following the opening of both Galaxy’s Edges, margins were either flat or down YoY at Domestic Parks (check the supplemental income). Disney did not open a land to have lower margins. The whole point of expanding a theme park is to leverage the existing infrastructure to bring more people in. That should increase margins if well executed. Instead, we saw a contraction in margins. Bob Iger endlessly brags about Disney’s ROI and Margins. Going to Iger with an investment idea that would not result in strong margins growth (or even a contraction) is an anathema. Galaxy’s Edge did not move Domestic Parks significantly, and likely even caused a contraction. Both @WDW Pro and MiceChat confirmed cuts were made to counter rising costs.
Lower margins at the parks isn’t always a bad thing. In some cases it means guests are getting better bang for their buck. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind if Disney decided to up quality and capacity for a few percentage points of margins. But was that what Disney was trying to do with Galaxy’s Edge? No, and any suggestion to the contrary is wrong.
Disney has stated that Galaxy’s Edge expanded Disneyland Park’s capacity by 20%. That was BEFORE RotR opened. Galaxy’s Edge, the new parking garage, the new tram area, and project sparkle were supposed to prepare the way for attendance growth of millions. Instead, we got flat attendance YoY. Anaheim was supposed to surge significantly. This idea that Disney added 20% capacity out of the goodness of their hearts is crazy. This is the same Disney that has happily stuffed thousands of guests into under-built parks like DAK and DHS.
They expected surging attendance and surging margins. They got neither. Why that happened remains up in the air...
Edit: I’m going to link some quotes...
1) “We expect to see millions of new visitors come to Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, which will help support what we do for our residents.
We’re planning for the opening and will be working to handle the additional visitors to ensure everyone has a great experience.”
From City of Anaheim Doc.
2) ”We’re a world-class destination. We attract more than 22 million visitors every year to Disneyland and the West Coast’s largest convention center. With Disney’s new plan for Star Wars Land and the continued success of our professional sports teams, we expect even more millions in the years to come.“
State of Anaheim Speech 2016
2016 State of the City | Anaheim, CA - Official Website
Read the 2016 State of the City Address by Mayor Tom Tait. Video coming soon!
www.anaheim.net
3) “Meanwhile, The Anaheim Resort continues to see growth with new hotels and legions of new visitors expected for the May opening of Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge at Disneyland Park.“
Anaheim First Proposal Document
Last edited: