Why aren’t there more stand alone DVC resorts?

[castlecake2.0]

I went to vero beach for the first time yesterday and loved it. It made me wonder though, why didn’t/doesn’t Disney expand on stand alone DVC resorts? I don’t mean flood the market with them, but I feel like North America could probably support 1 or 2 more? I know Covid is making the company hesitant to invest in anything other than digital, so until the bobs are gone this seems very unlikely until the company gets a CEO like Eisner in his early years. Where do you think would be a good destination?

 

[CastAStone]

Phase 2 of Vero Beach was canceled due to lack of demand.

Aulani has been for sale since July 2010, and is only about 60% sold out.

So unfortunately, that’s your answer.

 

[nickys]

They were considered. I think the Aulani experience soured the whole idea in Disney’s eyes. Would people really pay the Disney rates to stay away from the theme parks year round? Or invest in a DVC resort elsewhere?

I suspect the answer to both questions is no. Even if the buy-in was cheaper it’s getting much harder to book WDW at 7 months so there wouldn’t be that incentive. What else would be the draw? Some character meet and greets, what else? You also have the problem of resale owners not being able to use points at a new resort aka the restrictions seen at Riviera.

Every so often they ask members about other locations. I suspect the answers aren’t in favour. And stand-alone DVC resorts are more expensive to run since DVC have to foot the entire bill. Maintenance fees would therefore be high.

The most likely next DVC location might be at Tokyo. I hope Paris moves ahead with the plans that were seemingly on the table as part of the 2024 expansion.

 

[JaxFLBear]

Disney has purchased at least 4 properties across the USA over the years on which DVC Resorts were going to be built. They never started construction on any of them and subsequently sold off the properties. The locations were: NYC, National Harbor (DC), Newport Coast (CA) and a Colorado ski resort.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Does anyone know what the occupancy usually runs at vero, Hilton, and Aulani? But I see what you’re saying, Disney doesn’t want to just pay to build the whole thing somewhere where there isn’t demand. What were the Paris plans? Im always hoping they’d build one in Canada somewhere near a ski destination, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense people aren’t going to pay a Disney premium without the parks nearby.

 

[nickys]

Does anyone know what the occupancy usually runs at vero, Hilton, and Aulani? But I see what you’re saying, Disney doesn’t want to just pay to build the whole thing somewhere where there isn’t demand. What were the Paris plans? Im always hoping they’d build one in Canada somewhere near a ski destination, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense people aren’t going to pay a Disney premium without the parks nearby.

The Paris plans were hinted at a few times on here. Most recently, part of the 2024 plan, was converting some rooms at one of the existing hotels to DVC units. That’s all we got. I’ve no idea how those plans as a whole were affected by Covid. The whole point of course was to have everything ready by the time of the Paris Olympics - Frozen Land, Marvel etc. I know things didn’t stop but not sure what timeframe is now. I suspect in any case the DVC idea is now shelved.

 

[Buck Wheelie]

We've been to Vero Beach too and loved it. It made me think the same as the OP and why aren't there more resorts like this. Overall VB, HH and Aulani aren't as popular as the resorts at DL and WDW. Resorts at the parks have better and quicker sales and that means Disney makes more money.

 

[Phonedave]

You are also looking at two different market segments as well.

Disney fans will buy into DVC because they want to stay at a Disney World/Land location. The external properties are a nice bonus, but they are not the main draw for a Disney fan.

A non-Disney fan is not going to view the properties on WDW or DL as a bonus. So now they are looking at a handful of locations. One of which is quite expensive for much of the market to travel to, So the thought pattern becomes, they can either buy DVC and then transfer points to RCI, or they could just buy an RCI property. It's a catch 22 situation. It is hard to sell off property locations by advertising the Disney quality and level of service when you only have 2 or 3 properties. But it is hard to justify building new ones when you don't have any demand for the ones you do have.

 

[seascape]

There is no demand for off property DVC's. Besides, many of us DVC owners own another Timeshare that gives us locations off property that we want to visit. Now, if The Walt Disney Company were interested in expanding into off property locations it would be better to buy one of the other existing timeshare companies and give priority to DVC owners to trade into the other timeshare and their owners priority into trading into DVC. However, I don't think it would be a good idea. DVC is the only timeshare provider that has timeshares actually increase in value.

 

[Indy_UK]

I’m sure there’s a million reasons why they can’t but couldn’t they stick a small and exclusive DVC on Castaway Cay?

 

[CastAStone]

Does anyone know what the occupancy usually runs at vero, Hilton, and Aulani?

I know HH is always booked out for Christmas, and whenever it’s remotely warm, I’m pretty sure it runs at effectively full occupancy year round but I’m not totally sure. I know I’ve had trouble finding availability even when it’s cold.

Aulani also runs at very high occupancy as they rent out the unsold DVC rooms as hotel rooms. But then something like the last 12 months happens and 40% of the risk of property closure - risk that Disney was supposed to have sold to others years ago - is in Disney’s lap.

I know nothing about VB.

 

[JaxFLBear]

I’m sure there’s a million reasons why they can’t but couldn’t they stick a small and exclusive DVC on Castaway Cay?

Could be prohibited by the terms of the 99 year lease that Disney signed when they acquired rights to use the island.

 

[nickys]

I’m sure there’s a million reasons why they can’t but couldn’t they stick a small and exclusive DVC on Castaway Cay?

What is an “exclusive” DVC? It would have all the restrictions of Riviera, but anyone with qualifying points would have to be allowed to trade in. Unless they make it entirely a DVC 2 resort, no trading in or out. Not sure how popular that would be.

How would people get there? There would need to be a ferry from Nassau I guess. Unless they have a one way option on the cruise ships and you then pick up the next one on the way back.

 

[DisneyJoe]

I’m sure there’s a million reasons why they can’t but couldn’t they stick a small and exclusive DVC on Castaway Cay?

From articles I have read:
- they'd need to add a massive amount of infrastructure to support something like that
- there'd be transportation issues
- bugs, bugs and more bugs as there are massive amount of bugs at night
- finally, a hurricane could come along and destroy it all easily

 

[Indy_UK]

What is an “exclusive” DVC? It would have all the restrictions of Riviera, but anyone with qualifying points would have to be allowed to trade in. Unless they make it entirely a DVC 2 resort, no trading in or out. Not sure how popular that would be.

How would people get there? There would need to be a ferry from Nassau I guess. Unless they have a one way option on the cruise ships and you then pick up the next one on the way back.

Like I said, a million reasons against it but wondered if it’s something they may have considered but seems like there’s 0% chance

 

[CastAStone]

Like I said, a million reasons against it but wondered if it’s something they may have considered but seems like there’s 0% chance

I don’t think it’s impossible Disney will build a resort on a Caribbean island someday. It may not be soon, and it may not be that one. But sure, I think it’s possible.

 

[cmwade77]

They were considered. I think the Aulani experience soured the whole idea in Disney’s eyes. Would people really pay the Disney rates to stay away from the theme parks year round? Or invest in a DVC resort elsewhere?

I suspect the answer to both questions is no. Even if the buy-in was cheaper it’s getting much harder to book WDW at 7 months so there wouldn’t be that incentive. What else would be the draw? Some character meet and greets, what else? You also have the problem of resale owners not being able to use points at a new resort aka the restrictions seen at Riviera.

Every so often they ask members about other locations. I suspect the answers aren’t in favour. And stand-alone DVC resorts are more expensive to run since DVC have to foot the entire bill. Maintenance fees would therefore be high.

The most likely next DVC location might be at Tokyo. I hope Paris moves ahead with the plans that were seemingly on the table as part of the 2024 expansion.

The problem with Aulani is even if you stay there on points you have to pay the Transient tax or whatever they call it base don the number of people in the room. I don't think there are many people that want that. Putting DVC somewhere like Vero Beach is there really isn't anything else to draw people there. If DVC were to put a resort in Branson or Pigeon Forge, I think the results would be much different. Even if they put a resort in San Diego, I think it would work better.

But overall, I think Disney should put them near Disney Parks and let RCI handle the other locations and hopefully make the waiving of the exchange fee permanent. This would allow Disney to build where they can split costs with the parks and still have plenty of options for people wanting to travel elsewhere.

 

[nickys]

The problem with Aulani is even if you stay there on points you have to pay the Transient tax or whatever they call it base don the number of people in the room. I don't think there are many people that want that. Putting DVC somewhere like Vero Beach is there really isn't anything else to draw people there. If DVC were to put a resort in Branson or Pigeon Forge, I think the results would be much different. Even if they put a resort in San Diego, I think it would work better.

But overall, I think Disney should put them near Disney Parks and let RCI handle the other locations and hopefully make the waiving of the exchange fee permanent. This would allow Disney to build where they can split costs with the parks and still have plenty of options for people wanting to travel elsewhere.

Aulani was aimed at the Japanese love for Disney. Then there was the tsunami that destroyed the nuclear power station, which put paid to DVC sales.

 

[aliceismad]

How would people get there? There would need to be a ferry from Nassau I guess. Unless they have a one way option on the cruise ships and you then pick up the next one on the way back.

My understanding is that for tax and security (Dept of Homeland Security) it's problematic for guests to get on and off mass cruise ships in the Caribbean. You usually have to get special permission or a medical emergency to leave the ship. I know there are small cruise liners that offer one-way travel to the Bahamas from Miami though.

Disney is building a second private island in the Bahamas - Lighthouse Point. (https://lighthousepointbahamas.com/) Not sure if it's on hold or squashed since covid happened, but they have the land. I don't think there were ever plans to put DVC or any kind of overnight lodging there.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I think they could have worked in more places of they scaled them to the right size. I think one in scottsdale, a ski resort in Utah or Colorado and one in new England would all be awesome