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Why are they closing Snow White?

dsdmbU2

Member
That's fine for the younger crowd but my kids (ages 11 & 14) are more interested in rides than meeting characters at this point. We still do character dining but at the parks not so much.
 

Skibum1970

Well-Known Member
When I was at the Magic Kingdom in March, I ran into a long line that stretched from Tomorrowland all the way back a side path to the castle. I thought, "Huh, what ride has this huge line?" It was a meet and greet line and I can't tell you which character. So, putting meet and greets in Snow White's former ride building does make a lot of sense and will probably be very popular. Granted, I'd rather see another dark ride of some type but the meet and greet thing is huge for children. Just an opinion and an uninformed one at best.
 

Spirkee

New Member
ok... wow...

I'm new here and a casual fan of Disney - ok maybe a little more than casual - but what I'll say is the last time I went on the Snow White Dark Ride was November of 2010 and it was pretty old, poor effects, and wasn't anywhere near the quality of the other rides at the park. Could it be upgraded... of course... and that's what they're doing. They're just giving it a new ride system moving the ride to a new spot with new trains that will go a bit faster and tell the story better.

I'm all about nostalgia... and the stories are the important part. DISNEY ROCKS FOR TAKING ON THE CHALLENGE OF THE MINE RIDE! I'm 1,000 times more happy that they're building this new ride, closing the existing one instead of the first plan for the expansion...

But wouldn't it be cool if we could get them to bring back Mr. Toad's Wild Ride... now that would be awesome! Do you think we could make that happen??!?!??!?!?! (there that will keep some people busy for a while).
 

skellington22

New Member
Magic Kingdom

What always made Magic Kingdom great for me was its dark rides, if you take that away it wont be the same... Im glad they are updating the snow white ride, but if this continues with Peter Pans Flight and Pirates Im not sure thatll be ok with fans, i do agree however that for children Magic Kingdom is where there dreams come true and they should be able to see their favorite characters in a meet and great... the additions of the Little Mermaid ride and the Seven Dwarfs mine train will hopefully preserve the dark ride magic along with what is remaining in fantasyland... while the princess faire will fulfill little girls dreams of meeting their favorite princess.
 

CaptainJackNO

Well-Known Member
You have to be kidding me.....where is that data coming from?

Ride Maintenance $$$
CMs to Operate Ride $$$
Utilties $$
Real Estate $$$

He's right, the meet and greets are more expensive. Think about it, Disney has to pay the character actor/actress per hour, plus each has a character host that is paid by the hour. Then you have daily cleaning of the costume, not to mention the make-up costs and such. The dark ride costs are primarily up front. After that, as long as they are operating as supposed to, they cost very little to operate, save for the 2 cast members to operate the attraction. The meet and greets have anywhere from 2 to 4 different people playing the same characters at once, plus a host and photographer for each. Not to mention the people paid to maintain the lines.

For your numbers, maintenance is built into the cost of other attractions as well. Dark rides do not require just one set of maintenance people. The same ones maintain all the dark rides in Fantasyland. Also, the utilities to operate one dark ride is negligable compared to all the power being used throughout the park. And, the real estate is already owned and costs nothing extra. So, yes, meet and greets cost more.
 

Thrill

Well-Known Member
You have to be kidding me.....where is that data coming from?

Ride Maintenance $$$
CMs to Operate Ride $$$
Utilties $$
Real Estate $$$

Capacity.

A dark ride carries a whole lot of people. Meet and greets don't. 1 dark ride is way more expensive than 1 meet and greet, but serving 1000 people an hour via dark rides is probably cheaper than serving 1000 people an hour via meet and greets.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Management of the parks is not going to be as concerned with the up front costs of any addition, be it attraction or Meet & Greet, as those budgets are often established separately. Operating an attraction or Meet & Greet is paid for out of the yearly budgets for which park management is actually concerned.
 

Disaddict

New Member
Management is simply responding to guest demand and are not being cheep. Quite the opposite is true. Meet n greets cost more per guest to run and maintain than your average c/d ticket dark ride. This is why management hates them. They would much rather build a dark ride that would service more people at a lower operating cost per person. The problem is the majority of guests that come every 1-2 years wants meet n greets in a big way.

So you're trying to say that it costs Disney more to have "Jimmy" stand out in a costume and hug and wave than it does to operate say, RnR? Seriously? You have to be joking. There is no way a M&G costs more to operate than a dark ride. By your reasoning "Jimmy" is making a bank roll if he makes more combined than the many CMs it takes to run the attraction, the engineers to fix the attraction, and all for the utility costs to run the attraction. Whats "Jimmy" makin this year? $300k? :lol:
 

sambahat

Member
It's not whether a M&G costs more or less than a dark ride. Rather, a dark ride comes from a bucket of money that is different than the bucket of money that is used to run the parks.

A new dark ride comes from the "capital" budget bucket which is used to pay engineers, build scenery, train personnel on the *new* ride, etc.

A M&G comes from the "operations" budget "bucket" which is used to paint over peeled spots, oil the wheels, train new employees on existing rides, etc.

Park management is probably not happy because $$ to run a M&G comes out of *their* bucket rather than the WDI bucket (which is usually larger).
 

sambahat

Member
It's not whether a M&G costs more or less than a dark ride. Rather, a dark ride comes from a bucket of money that is different than the bucket of money that is used to run the parks.

A new dark ride comes from the "capital" budget bucket which is used to pay engineers, build scenery, train personnel on the *new* ride, etc.

A M&G comes from the "operations" budget "bucket" which is used to paint over peeled spots, oil the wheels, train new employees on existing rides, etc.

Park management is probably not happy because $$ to run a M&G comes out of *their* bucket rather than the WDI bucket (which is usually larger).

And don't forget that the management types are looking at *everything* through the prism of cost-per-guest.
 
Although the initial upfront cost is disproportionate. I have no hard figures but to make a C-ticket ride it may cost 20 million opposed to a lavish meet and greet which would be a fraction of that(maybe 1 million).

19 million dollars buys you quite a few hours of face characters.

I think the whole thing makes perfect sense for a number of reasons.

1. the amount of money they make on autograph books/pens/photopass is crazy
2. Fantasyland has very few meet and greet areas
3. your opening a snow white ride that will reach a much broader audience.
yes i'm a disney purest as well, but can they promote Scary adventures...they sure as heck can do it to the new one.
4. Its another reason to go to disneyland, Mr Toads, Snow white, Pinochoo, Alice, peter pan(which obv we have) infact after this whole deal is done, it will be two completly different fantasylands
 

Rob562

Well-Known Member
So you're trying to say that it costs Disney more to have "Jimmy" stand out in a costume and hug and wave than it does to operate say, RnR? Seriously? You have to be joking. There is no way a M&G costs more to operate than a dark ride. By your reasoning "Jimmy" is making a bank roll if he makes more combined than the many CMs it takes to run the attraction, the engineers to fix the attraction, and all for the utility costs to run the attraction. Whats "Jimmy" makin this year? $300k? :lol:


I highly doubt that an E-ticket like RnRC would be replaced by a Meet & Greet, so let's stick to the "normal" dark ride comparison, such as what is happening with Snow White.

Snow White is a relatively low-cost attraction. Some lights, some pneumatic doors and figures, and DC-powered vehicles. Add in two CMs, and that's it.

With a Meet & Greet, in addition to "Jimmy", you also have to account for "Johnny" and sometimes even "Jason" who are backstage. Friends of characters are only onstage for a set amount of time, and then they have to go backstage to rest. With some of the lesser characters they might go backstage and be gone for a while. But with big-name characters, they go backstage to "get a drink of water" or "have a hunny break", and then magically emerge a minute or two later.

So while some of the offstage time for the characters' friends is actual break time, some of it is also on-the-clock time, meaning Disney is essentially double or triple paying friends for some of the characters.

Plus, each character needs an attendant.

So for a given hour, you can have 800 Guests experience SWSA for the price of two CMs and a little electricity, or 100 Guests meeting with Pooh for the price of 2 higher-paid CMs plus a CM handler.

Which is the more economical per-Guest-experience option?

-Rob
 

castevens

Member
I highly doubt that an E-ticket like RnRC would be replaced by a Meet & Greet, so let's stick to the "normal" dark ride comparison, such as what is happening with Snow White.

Snow White is a relatively low-cost attraction. Some lights, some pneumatic doors and figures, and DC-powered vehicles. Add in two CMs, and that's it.

With a Meet & Greet, in addition to "Jimmy", you also have to account for "Johnny" and sometimes even "Jason" who are backstage. Friends of characters are only onstage for a set amount of time, and then they have to go backstage to rest. With some of the lesser characters they might go backstage and be gone for a while. But with big-name characters, they go backstage to "get a drink of water" or "have a hunny break", and then magically emerge a minute or two later.

So while some of the offstage time for the characters' friends is actual break time, some of it is also on-the-clock time, meaning Disney is essentially double or triple paying friends for some of the characters.

Plus, each character needs an attendant.

So for a given hour, you can have 800 Guests experience SWSA for the price of two CMs and a little electricity, or 100 Guests meeting with Pooh for the price of 2 higher-paid CMs plus a CM handler.

Which is the more economical per-Guest-experience option?

-Rob

Also, if we're going to start adding in the maintenance costs of rides (the behind-the-scenes type things) then there is brand new makeup along with the costume that needs to be applied. I know the costs are minuscule but it brings another factor to the equation.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
So you're trying to say that it costs Disney more to have "Jimmy" stand out in a costume and hug and wave than it does to operate say, RnR? Seriously? You have to be joking. There is no way a M&G costs more to operate than a dark ride. By your reasoning "Jimmy" is making a bank roll if he makes more combined than the many CMs it takes to run the attraction, the engineers to fix the attraction, and all for the utility costs to run the attraction. Whats "Jimmy" makin this year? $300k? :lol:
When "Jimmy" operates RnRc his pay is among the lowest in the park and he and just a couple of other CM's get 1000-2000 guests per hour through the attraction. When "Jimmy" is a friend of a character his pay goes up a few ticks, even more so if he is a face character, then there is "Sally" the handler, "David" the line attendant, "Sarah" the fast pass photographer and that is all for just one character. Multiply that by 4-6 for your average meet n greet all for a whooping 800 guests per hour on a great day. So yes, they do cost more to operate per guest.
 

Disaddict

New Member
When "Jimmy" operates RnRc his pay is among the lowest in the park and he and just a couple of other CM's get 1000-2000 guests per hour through the attraction. When "Jimmy" is a friend of a character his pay goes up a few ticks, even more so if he is a face character, then there is "Sally" the handler, "David" the line attendant, "Sarah" the fast pass photographer and that is all for just one character. Multiply that by 4-6 for your average meet n greet all for a whooping 800 guests per hour on a great day. So yes, they do cost more to operate per guest.

That still makes zero sense. There is no way on earth that a M&G costs more to operate than a ride. LOL There are a h*** of a lot more employees that deal with a daily run ride than there ever will be for a M&G plus you have the utility costs to operate it. Saying a M&G costs more is just pure insanity. :lol: You'll never convince anyone that the (as you put it) 4 CMs for the M&G cost more than all of the CMs it takes to run a ride.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
That still makes zero sense. There is no way on earth that a M&G costs more to operate than a ride. LOL There are a h*** of a lot more employees that deal with a daily run ride than there ever will be for a M&G plus you have the utility costs to operate it. Saying a M&G costs more is just pure insanity. :lol: You'll never convince anyone that the (as you put it) 4 CMs for the M&G cost more than all of the CMs it takes to run a ride.
I do not really care if I do not convince a single person. I know it is the reality. You can not understand how a labor rate 22.5 cents per guest is more than 2.2 cents per guest all you want, it does not change the math.
 

Alektronic

Well-Known Member
There is no way a M & G costs more than a dark ride. I would really like to see some actual numbers on that.

But, I think it may cost more to staff a M & G than a dark ride. Characters get paid more than Operations.

M & G are run by the Entertainment dept, so how would they know much how it would cost to run and maintain a dark ride?
 

kbmum

Well-Known Member
Whenever people complain about having more meet & greets, I think back to my first trip in 1976. My brother and I desperately wanted to meet Mickey. During the week-long trip, we saw him twice in the Town Square area. He was mobbed. There were no queues and kids kept running up to him, interrupting photos that people were trying to take of their own kids. We weren't able to get near him. We managed to get only three character pictures that week -- two Dwarves and a medieval-looking animal that I think was from Robin Hood. You have no idea how disappointed we were, although, yes, we loved the Magic Kingdom and all of the rides.

Now, I love having the opportunity to take my kids' picture with more characters than I could have imagined when I was a kid. Sometimes the lines are short, sometimes they're long, but at least there are orderly queues (some with air conditioning) and stated waiting times.
 

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