News Walt Disney World to resume sales of Annual Passes (New sales resume April 20, 2023)

[Vegas Disney Fan]

That tells me that the decision to suspend sales was sudden, as Disney's ad agencies had already sent out the direct mail pieces.

Which is a horrible way to run a massive business like Disney. I still chuckle when I pass the brand new, never used, area for FP machine they built at Avengers Campus, it shows that dropping FP at DL was a sudden decision also.

Sudden decisions, that aren’t well thought out, usually end up bad.

 

[wutisgood]

Personally, I see park pass reservations as a massive subsidy to Sea World and Universal. But what do I know?

I think disney is giving massive amount of growth away to the other parks because they wont build enough capacity. Sure average guest spend is up at disney, but universal and is adding high capacity rides much cheaper with a way lower cost of infrastructure. Disney is essentially the primary money behind the third universal park.

Which is a horrible way to run a massive business like Disney. I still chuckle when I pass the brand new, never used, area for FP machine they built at Avengers Campus, it shows that dropping FP at DL was a sudden decision also.

Sudden decisions, that aren’t well thought out, usually end up bad.

Bob chapek overriding the local execs. Anyone who has worked for that kind of terrible person learns you just say yes and let them crash and burn vs spending money to have your plans rejected.

 

[wutisgood]

They, like most industries, are literally testing the market by seeing how high they can raise prices before they start to loose customers. By not selling the APs, they are, indirectly, raising the perceived value of holders, as compared to those who don’t. When they do start selling passes again, the call lines will be unbearable, and, most likely, higher priced…new year, new you type ****.

I am more in the camp of disney knows the markets are going to tank and they are desperate to extract money before average joe realizes at this point.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

I am more in the camp of disney knows the markets are going to tank and they are desperate to extract money before average joe realizes at this point.

I'm starting to agree. Natural fall guy. All sorts of programs they could now cut as a "discount" under new leadership. I'm not sure it will work, but I could see the strategy.

 

[mkt]

I think disney is giving massive amount of growth away to the other parks because they wont build enough capacity.

They likely don’t have anywhere near the staffing levels to go back to full capacity yet.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wish you were right. But, the crowds keep coming. Until they see a dip in attendance, they won't learn anything. I'd be curious to know the make-up of attendance; are they majority AP or "full-price" guests? Seems it's the latter...

Are the crowds coming? Or is there a game going on. For the third straight day I heard “the parks are so nice…it’s great”.

Aren’t they seeing that already?

It seems that way…but they may have pivoted and no longer want “crowds”…but rather hostages at maximum ransom

that's why I'm asking for some attendance stats. Based on the crowds and wait times, I think they're getting all the people in the parks as they can possibly support (maybe even more). I think they've got to see attendance shrinkage as they saw after 9/11 or The Great Recession before they notice the problem.

You won’t get them…they’re gonna claim that they’re “juiced” to their secret desired number and people can’t get enough of paying more for it: because they are not required to tell the truth. As I always remind everyone who believes the Bob’s crap.

While I don’t know for sure, I know there are a ton of AP’s. Having lived in Tampa for 13 years it had gotten to the point about every 3rd or 4th car there it seemed had a Disney annual pass magnet or 17 on their car.

And that’s what I’m saying. When there is a down turn, another lockdown, whatever and they need the local AP’s to buoy their business. Their practices these last couple of years and future decisions could have created less loyal return customers and they don’t come back to save them again.

I am an AP. It was a long hard decision to renew in September after they announced their new passes. We ultimately did and were able to do so on the old platinum system one last time. But we went back and forth. Between no tram, reservation nonsense, park hopper limitations, and no tables in wonderland, we really considered Universal. We decided on Disney for 4 main reasons:

1.) All of us wanted to go for the 50th
2.) Because the pandemic hit out of nowhere, we never…and by we never, I mean we never prepared our 5 year old…to say goodbye and understand we will not be coming back for a long, long time because we won’t have the passes to do so. We are doing that this time.
3.) Universals down payment is steep for 4 people.
4.) Our 5 year old is several food allergies. Since we have moved to Jacksonville we are no longer an hour away, can go for a few hours in the morning, and hit Chik Fil A on 27 on the way home for lunch which is one of the only restaurants he can eat anything at. We were now going to have to eat at the parks. Disney is really, really, really good about dealing with food allergies. I read up on Universals when we were trying to make a decision and their website was vague on the subject, and other places I was able to look up info on kept saying things like “they are getting better but they are not Disney.”

So, for one more year we renewed. But their decisions really are showing their true colors to us. They don’t seem to care about us, so we will take our business elsewhere or just save the $ altogether.

I imagine shutting it down for over a year and tripling the price in just about 15 years has “thinned the ranks” a lot at this point

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am more in the camp of disney knows the markets are going to tank and they are desperate to extract money before average joe realizes at this point.

It is possible. Remember the last Bob bailed on what appeared to be “insider knowledge” of the medical fear of 19…they didn’t know and he left his “idiot son” in charge.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

so my household has three magnet-less AP holders. I got a card in the mail yesterday addressed to 'Florida Resident' from Disney Destinations.

The card was to tell me what a great time it is to become a FL RES AP holder; how I need to see everything they have going on for the 50th -- sure, it quotes Pixie Dust prices -- sure, it mentions pass sales may be halted at any time -- sure, they point you to a WEB site (where you will see only Pixie Dust passes) -- Anyhow, they do seem to be pushing passes even though many around here seem to feel they do not want to sell passes --

There’s a strategy…I was reading some material on that today.

They want to sell resident summer and weekday passes. Okay if that is when you want to go I guess
At this time they think they can provide access for those dates, for the other passes they knew they were selling admission to something that they could not provide and would get a class action suit brought against them. All the disclaimers in the world won't cover so they "paused" selling all other classes of passes

Yep

The weekday only passes have always been targeted at retirees who aren’t constrained to weekends, as well as families working in the industry who don’t have traditional M-F work weeks.

Yep times 2

they’re trying to specifically backfill the weekdays and block the weekends out…

but they’re even pretty stupid about that. If they want Tuesday-Thursday full of retirees…then you drop the price of the pass to almost give it away. But that’s just too obvious.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Again...

Even before the pandemic, WDW had a problem with overcrowding at MK. There were carrots and sticks to drive away people from 'the peak times.'

And now, there is a labor shortage. WDW can't handle now the holiday crowds that they had in the before times. So, they clamped down on attendance with the Park Pass reservations system.

People right now cannot buy a ticket on some upcoming holiday dates because WDW is sold out. (MK itself has even more sold out dates, but you can still buy a ticket to get into the other parks.)

Let me repeat this, because it's going to be important for understanding the AP 'pause' -- you cannot buy day tickets because the parks (mostly MK at this point) are SOLD OUT.

Now, for APs: If the parks are sold out, what good does it do anyone to buy an AP when they can't use it because the parks are SOLD OUT? Why would WDW sell an AP to someone and then listen to them complain and demand their money back because they can't use their AP because the parks are SOLD OUT?

There is no conspiracy here. WDW isn't "creating demand to raise prices." That's conspiracy theory time base on nerdrage. Especially when all the *evidence* (and not blind guesswork) points to WDW just simply clamping down on the attendance level of the parks due to their labor shortage.

You all heard of the labor shortage which is happening nearly everywhere and is constantly in the news, right? It's real. It's affecting WDW.

APs aren't magic. They can't get you into a park that's closed because it's full. And APs aren't being singled out. People who buy the day-tickets are finding they can't get into the parks on certain days, because those days are SOLD OUT.

 

[Jrb1979]

Again...

Even before the pandemic, WDW had a problem with overcrowding at MK. There were carrots and sticks to drive away people from 'the peak times.'

And now, there is a labor shortage. WDW can't handle now the holiday crowds that they had in the before times. So, they clamped down on attendance with the Park Pass reservations system.

People right now cannot buy a ticket on some upcoming holiday dates because WDW is sold out. (MK itself has even more sold out dates, but you can still buy a ticket to get into the other parks.)

Let me repeat this, because it's going to be important for understanding the AP 'pause' -- you cannot buy day tickets because the parks (mostly MK at this point) are SOLD OUT.

Now, for APs: If the parks are sold out, what good does it do anyone to buy an AP when they can't use it because the parks are SOLD OUT? Why would WDW sell an AP to someone and then listen to them complain and demand their money back because they can't use their AP because the parks are SOLD OUT?

There is no conspiracy here. WDW isn't "creating demand to raise prices." That's conspiracy theory time base on nerdrage. Especially when all the *evidence* (and not blind guesswork) points to WDW just simply clamping down on the attendance level of the parks due to their labor shortage.

You all heard of the labor shortage which is happening nearly everywhere and is constantly in the news, right? It's real. It's affecting WDW.

APs aren't magic. They can't get you into a park that's closed because it's full. And APs aren't being singled out. People who buy the day-tickets are finding they can't get into the parks on certain days, because those days are SOLD OUT.

Hi Bob.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Hi Bob.

Hi, typical ad hominem.

 

[flynnibus]

APs aren't magic. They can't get you into a park that's closed because it's full. And APs aren't being singled out. People who buy the day-tickets are finding they can't get into the parks on certain days, because those days are SOLD OUT.

It is still a handle disney has never really pulled in the past. Disneyland blackout periods had similar’no point in buying’ periods but disney wouldn’t outright stop sales because of it.

disney knows people buy passes snd activate later… disney also knows there are valud scenarios where guests who were already planning on being there (dvc) who had reasons to wait to buy passes…. Just like disney knows people have valid upgrade scenarios that happen all the time.

the ‘dont sell because there is not availability in the coming weeks’ doesn’t make sense to offset all the grief the cutoff will cause for valid scenarios disney has long supported.

disney is embracing letting customers see scarcity more than ever… something most businesses try to avoid… unless scarcity is part of your sales strategy.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

It is still a handle disney has never really pulled in the past. Disneyland blackout periods had similar’no point in buying’ periods but disney wouldn’t outright stop sales because of it.

disney knows people buy passes snd activate later… disney also knows there are valud scenarios where guests who were already planning on being there (dvc) who had reasons to wait to buy passes…. Just like disney knows people have valid upgrade scenarios that happen all the time.

the ‘dont sell because there is not availability in the coming weeks’ doesn’t make sense to offset all the grief the cutoff will cause for valid scenarios disney has long supported.

disney is embracing letting customers see scarcity more than ever… something most businesses try to avoid… unless scarcity is part of your sales strategy.

I’m still hopeful this is all temporary due to attendance issues, Covid issues, staffing issues, etc.

Hopefully in another year or two things will be back to normal and we’ll all be looking back at this time and the changes as abnormal.

 

[PaulZ]

Again...

Even before the pandemic, WDW had a problem with overcrowding at MK. There were carrots and sticks to drive away people from 'the peak times.'

And now, there is a labor shortage. WDW can't handle now the holiday crowds that they had in the before times. So, they clamped down on attendance with the Park Pass reservations system.

People right now cannot buy a ticket on some upcoming holiday dates because WDW is sold out. (MK itself has even more sold out dates, but you can still buy a ticket to get into the other parks.)

Let me repeat this, because it's going to be important for understanding the AP 'pause' -- you cannot buy day tickets because the parks (mostly MK at this point) are SOLD OUT.

Now, for APs: If the parks are sold out, what good does it do anyone to buy an AP when they can't use it because the parks are SOLD OUT? Why would WDW sell an AP to someone and then listen to them complain and demand their money back because they can't use their AP because the parks are SOLD OUT?

There is no conspiracy here. WDW isn't "creating demand to raise prices." That's conspiracy theory time base on nerdrage. Especially when all the *evidence* (and not blind guesswork) points to WDW just simply clamping down on the attendance level of the parks due to their labor shortage.

You all heard of the labor shortage which is happening nearly everywhere and is constantly in the news, right? It's real. It's affecting WDW.

APs aren't magic. They can't get you into a park that's closed because it's full. And APs aren't being singled out. People who buy the day-tickets are finding they can't get into the parks on certain days, because those days are SOLD OUT.

First, ftr I never called this a conspiracy. I’ve only called this decision and those leading up to it as not even pretending to care about guests anymore.

Second, with regard to not being able to use the AP’s because dates are booked. Ok? I believe people here have pointed out most parks on most days are available during the times most peoples passes could be used. Most aren’t buying the most expensive one with no blackout dates. Further, as someone who’s purchased them in the past and waited a few weeks to use them in the past for the first time, your passes don’t “activate” until you use it the first time. So if you couldn’t use it until January, no harm. You have it active through next January. It isn’t like it starts the day you buy the pass.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Again...

Even before the pandemic, WDW had a problem with overcrowding at MK. There were carrots and sticks to drive away people from 'the peak times.'

And now, there is a labor shortage. WDW can't handle now the holiday crowds that they had in the before times. So, they clamped down on attendance with the Park Pass reservations system.

People right now cannot buy a ticket on some upcoming holiday dates because WDW is sold out. (MK itself has even more sold out dates, but you can still buy a ticket to get into the other parks.)

Let me repeat this, because it's going to be important for understanding the AP 'pause' -- you cannot buy day tickets because the parks (mostly MK at this point) are SOLD OUT.

Now, for APs: If the parks are sold out, what good does it do anyone to buy an AP when they can't use it because the parks are SOLD OUT? Why would WDW sell an AP to someone and then listen to them complain and demand their money back because they can't use their AP because the parks are SOLD OUT?

There is no conspiracy here. WDW isn't "creating demand to raise prices." That's conspiracy theory time base on nerdrage. Especially when all the *evidence* (and not blind guesswork) points to WDW just simply clamping down on the attendance level of the parks due to their labor shortage.

You all heard of the labor shortage which is happening nearly everywhere and is constantly in the news, right? It's real. It's affecting WDW.

APs aren't magic. They can't get you into a park that's closed because it's full. And APs aren't being singled out. People who buy the day-tickets are finding they can't get into the parks on certain days, because those days are SOLD OUT.

Wait…you know the following things:

1. the actual cap numbers?
2. The actual labor allocation, staff level, management directives?
3. The hard sale numbers?

…my point is you can’t rule anything out if you don’t know those things.

there is no inherent reason to trust management. Especially now…does it appear that there judgement has been sound and communication transparent during covid?

just is what it is. Anyone not at least considering that they be playing a Wall Street driven pricing game is naive. It’s at least possible given the record.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

First, ftr I never called this a conspiracy. I’ve only called this decision and those leading up to it as not even pretending to care about guests anymore.

Second, with regard to not being able to use the AP’s because dates are booked. Ok? I believe people here have pointed out most parks on most days are available during the times most peoples passes could be used. Most aren’t buying the most expensive one with no blackout dates. Further, as someone who’s purchased them in the past and waited a few weeks to use them in the past for the first time, your passes don’t “activate” until you use it the first time. So if you couldn’t use it until January, no harm. You have it active through next January. It isn’t like it starts the day you buy the pass.

…oh I bet I’m the “conspirator”…

…but I’m also not at my first rodeo. Chapek appears from all accounts to be a horrific manager. There isn’t much opposition to that. No…wait…Kevin feige vaguely called him “smart” in an article once

…it’s just everyone else that hates the guy…apparently including Iger.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hi, typical ad hominem.

…maybe try not defending them? The sun would rise in the East tomorrow

at a minimum…it really looks like they are completely messing with their most loyal customers during a period of cultural shock.

Very poor taste.

 

[Touchdown]

There could have been work arounds to this:
1. Don’t sell them except as upgrades to tickets already purchased for Nov/Dec
2. Make new passes not able to be activated until Jan 15th
3. Run the parade in MK to boost daily capacity
4. Go back in time and not pause Tron so MK would have higher capacity (not just from Tron but the RR as well
5. Managed your other parks better so people don’t spend as much time in MK, things like having well attended night shows at all your parks, not slow walking live entertainment so people spend more time elsewhere
6. Park Reservations trap people in one park for 5 hours, I know in the before times I typically hopped around 12-1, alleviating midday crowding but now I have to spend another hour in my morning park because I can’t get into my afternoon park yet.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There could have been work arounds to this:
1. Don’t sell them except as upgrades to tickets already purchased for Nov/Dec
2. Make new passes not able to be activated until Jan 15th
3. Run the parade in MK to boost daily capacity
4. Go back in time and not pause Tron so MK would have higher capacity (not just from Tron but the RR as well
5. Managed your other parks better so people don’t spend as much time in MK, things like having well attended night shows at all your parks, not slow walking live entertainment so people spend more time elsewhere
6. Park Reservations trap people in one park for 5 hours, I know in the before times I typically hopped around 12-1, alleviating midday crowding but now I have to spend another hour in my morning park because I can’t get into my afternoon park yet.

I think laying off 2/3 of your staff that is always hanging on by a thread and claim “no other choice” was the big mistake. A tremendous miscalculation. Disney sold almost nothing - except a streaming service in the red - in 2020…but their stock went from $91 in 11/19 to $180 at the end of 2020…because the United States government was under orders not to let its donors “lose” a red penny (there’s a conspiracy theory that is 100% true)…so Disney made a really bad choice. Especially since the international program was on longterm (and still is) lockdown.

the problem with defending Disney with “simple numbers” - which is always used including here with the “magic kingdom was overcrowded 3 years ago” line - is that numbers can be used by the prosecution as well.

 

[Touchdown]

I think laying off 2/3 of your staff that is always hanging on by a thread and claim “no other choice” was the big mistake. A tremendous miscalculation. Disney sold almost nothing - except a streaming service in the red - in 2020…but their stock went from $91 in 11/19 to $180 at the end of 2020…because the United States government was under orders not to let its donors “lose” a red penny (there’s a conspiracy theory that is 100% true)…so Disney made a really bad choice. Especially since the international program was on longterm (and still is) lockdown.

the problem with defending Disney with “simple numbers” - which is always used including here with the “magic kingdom was overcrowded 3 years ago” line - is that numbers can be used by the prosecution as well.

Actually, due to low interest rates provided by the govt the smart business decision would have been to take out loans to keep staff on the books, then you could have returned to normal much quicker. Disney made an absolutely stupid decision and is paying for it now. The airline industry did the same.