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News Walt Disney World theme park ticket price increases go into effect March 12 2019

flynnibus

Premium Member
Please, I am getting tired of reading that a WDW vacation was ever affordable for the middle class.

Well your disagreement doesn't change reality.

Middle class saved up for Disney and did things like stay offsite... It's why Orlando is full of low to mid-class attractions and hotels. If only the rich went to Disney, you wouldn't have this whole eco-system of budget stuff around Disney. Florida vacations were Disney was PART of a trip - not THE trip. Road Trips to FL were common. The advent of cheaper air travel after deregulation EXPANDED the customer base of Central Florida.. but the affordable summer road trip was still very much a thing for most families.

It's only a recent change that Disney is so focused on the 'onsite' guests. Prior, it was mainly the upper class and better off who stayed at the Poly, the Contemp, etc. "rich" people weren't staying at Ft Wilderness... and the bulk of people were staying OFFSITE at much more affordable accomodations.. and doing alot more things than just Disney.

It's why Disney started building the values and moderates and introduced programs like MYW ticketing/pricing... to change the visitor patterns into what people have now. The Disney vacation people think of today... is not the DIsney vacation that existed in the 70s and 80s... and evolved in the 90s.

And even if you reject all that reality... it doesn't change the fact that even the rich today feel FLEECED at Disney prices... regardless of if lower income people can afford it at all.
 

olie64

Well-Known Member
I've only been going since 2015. It's been pretty much crowded every time I go...except, depending on which park you are at and what part of the day, there can be fewer people. One night it rained buckets and we ran onto almost every ride at MK...it was so super cool! So it really all depends on lots of factors. But every trip I've taken, I have stumbled into quieter, less crowded areas.


The best day we ever had at Magic Kingdom was the day a tropical storm went up the coast...We didn't know about it till later. It was raining but it was still really nice.
 

dennis-in-ct

Well-Known Member
The bottom line is a multi day ticket went up 9 dollars per day. So a 5-day park hopper went up by 45.00

When price increases are taken as a one-time instance, it does not look that bad. But when price increases are so frequent, it totals up very quickly. Then step back and look ... and "WOW" ... it is getting crazy.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
Well your disagreement doesn't change reality.

Middle class saved up for Disney and did things like stay offsite... It's why Orlando is full of low to mid-class attractions and hotels. If only the rich went to Disney, you wouldn't have this whole eco-system of budget stuff around Disney. Florida vacations were Disney was PART of a trip - not THE trip. Road Trips to FL were common. The advent of cheaper air travel after deregulation EXPANDED the customer base of Central Florida.. but the affordable summer road trip was still very much a thing for most families.

It's only a recent change that Disney is so focused on the 'onsite' guests. Prior, it was mainly the upper class and better off who stayed at the Poly, the Contemp, etc. "rich" people weren't staying at Ft Wilderness... and the bulk of people were staying OFFSITE at much more affordable accomodations.. and doing alot more things than just Disney.

It's why Disney started building the values and moderates and introduced programs like MYW ticketing/pricing... to change the visitor patterns into what people have now. The Disney vacation people think of today... is not the DIsney vacation that existed in the 70s and 80s... and evolved in the 90s.

And even if you reject all that reality... it doesn't change the fact that even the rich today feel FLEECED at Disney prices... regardless of if lower income people can afford it at all.
People can still stay offsite. In fact if a middleclass family wants a WDW vacation I have a deal for them. 5 days and 4 nights with WDW tickets for 977. All they have to do is sit and watch a Bluegreen Timeshare presentation for 2 hours and say no. They could also choose a Universal option at the same price. If they are really smart they can spend one year at Bluegreen and the next at Westgate.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
People can still stay offsite. In fact if a middleclass family wants a WDW vacation I have a deal for them. 5 days and 4 nights with WDW tickets for 977. All they have to do is sit and watch a Bluegreen Timeshare presentation for 2 hours and say no. They could also choose a Universal option at the same price. If they are really smart they can spend one year at Bluegreen and the next at Westgate.

Staying offsite only diffuses part of Disney's pricing pains for today's visitors. In the past, it was by far more the norm than it is now. And Orlando as we see it today is the proof of that.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
Staying offsite only diffuses part of Disney's pricing pains for today's visitors. In the past, it was by far more the norm than it is now. And Orlando as we see it today is the proof of that.
The 997 includes hotel and themepark tickets. In fact you also get a full kitchen so you can make breakfast in the room and save even more money. Further you can pack a lunch and save even more. 997 for a family of 4 is only 250 per person. To say its unaffordable is crazy.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The 997 includes hotel and themepark tickets. In fact you also get a full kitchen so you can make breakfast in the room and save even more money. Further you can pack a lunch and save even more. 997 for a family of 4 is only 250 per person. To say its unaffordable is crazy.

So you are trying to contradict yourself when you said?

Please, I am getting tired of reading that a WDW vacation was ever affordable for the middle class.
 

DisneyJoe

Well-Known Member
And even if you reject all that reality... it doesn't change the fact that even the rich today feel FLEECED at Disney prices... regardless of if lower income people can afford it at all.
I suppose it depends on definition of rich, what they want, and the value they feel that they are getting and if they feel the Disney magic when they are there.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Yes, some are disappointed and feel fleeced and don't get the Disney Magic, but most do.

Ok, but separate the two topics...

- Their willingness to pay it
vs
- Their satisfaction level with the price charged

The simple criteria of "they still pay it" is not a good indicator of customer satisfaction with pricing... especially as we address audiences that have more disposible income.

Person A may be willing to pay $100 just to make a 5minute problem go away...
Person B may be just as affluent and insist instead the vendor fix the problem and will invest time to do so...
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
Please, I am getting tired of reading that a WDW vacation was ever affordable for the middle class. In 1970 an income of $20,000 for a family was considered a very good income. In fact in the 1980s in expensive NJ the average college educated teacher made less than $11,000 a year. It was Republican Governor Tom Kean that signed the $13,500.00 minimum pay for teachers bill. So please stop this pure garbage that a Disney vacation was affordable, it wasn't.


$20k in 1970 is worth about $125k today.....
 

disneyflush

Well-Known Member
Please, I am getting tired of reading that a WDW vacation was ever affordable for the middle class. In 1970 an income of $20,000 for a family was considered a very good income. In fact in the 1980s in expensive NJ the average college educated teacher made less than $11,000 a year. It was Republican Governor Tom Kean that signed the $13,500.00 minimum pay for teachers bill. So please stop this pure garbage that a Disney vacation was affordable, it wasn't.

No idea what you are trying to prove by citing these numbers. Inflation? 20k in 1970 would be $129k today. Whats the relevance here? The next sentence is about average teacher salary (your numbers are actually incorrect here, the Kean bill made the minimum $18,500, not $13,500, and the average teacher salary was a bit higher at $14,900 instead of $11k but facts) for some reason? A Disney vacation was most definitely affordable for the middle class in years past. Such an odd argument to plant your flag on though.
 

Kingtut

Well-Known Member
The 997 includes hotel and themepark tickets. In fact you also get a full kitchen so you can make breakfast in the room and save even more money. Further you can pack a lunch and save even more. 997 for a family of 4 is only 250 per person. To say its unaffordable is crazy.
They could get even more money for their vacation by standing on World Drive with a sign ( and their sad faced kids) that says "Will wait in standby for money"
 

ThistleMae

Well-Known Member
I'm single and retired on fixed income. Yes, it's getting more costly to go on a Disney Vacation. Would I like it to be less costly...of course I would, then I wouldn't have to be deciding to go a fewer number of days, or stay off site rather than onsite. Or, eating cheaper, so I can go an additional day or two. But for me...and maybe for many other Disney lovers, you figure out where to cut your vacation costs so you can continue to go. Will I be priced out someday...I hope not. I do know many of my Disney loving family members are also making these types of decisions so they can continue to enjoy that Magical vacation. I don't think this is any different than figuring out other ways to budget as everything else goes up in price and income doesn't match those rising costs.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
No idea what you are trying to prove by citing these numbers. Inflation? 20k in 1970 would be $129k today. Whats the relevance here? The next sentence is about average teacher salary (your numbers are actually incorrect here, the Kean bill made the minimum $18,500, not $13,500, and the average teacher salary was a bit higher at $14,900 instead of $11k but facts) for some reason? A Disney vacation was most definitely affordable for the middle class in years past. Such an odd argument to plant your flag on though.
I am not wrong. Both my sisters were teachers in NJ and started in the late 1970s. The other interesting fact that most people no longer think about is that it was in the 1970s that society changed and 2 income families became the norm. The median family income in 1971 was $9,030. The median family income in 2017 was $61,372. That is an increase of 680%. Do you really believe a family of 4 making $9,030 could have afforded a vacation to WDW? Remember clothes cost a much larger percentage of ones income because clothing used to be made in the USA and not China. Food was a higher percentage of income. But taxes were a smaller percentage.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Ok, but separate the two topics...

- Their willingness to pay it
vs
- Their satisfaction level with the price charged

The simple criteria of "they still pay it" is not a good indicator of customer satisfaction with pricing... especially as we address audiences that have more disposible income.

Person A may be willing to pay $100 just to make a 5minute problem go away...
Person B may be just as affluent and insist instead the vendor fix the problem and will invest time to do so...

Your example is too heavily biased by the scenario of "buying your way out of things". Yes, that mindset is very popular these days.. and the source of much contention as well. But I don't think its a very good reference point for the discussion of satisfaection with pricing.
Why? I would think "willingness " to pay would be a great indicator of satisfaction. Seriously? You continuously go to vacation places where you are not satisfied or feel you are getting fleeced? Now I'm not sure about your person A and B. I don't know anyone who would pay 100 bucks, I'm a dvc'er and the ones I know will sell in a heartbeat if they ever think Disney is out of the price range or they stop having a good time especially since the ones I know will get a good amount of their investment back. I own at the Beach club, as I always said the nanosecond I don't think my vacation is worth what I paid, I'm contacting the dvc store

So I do think their satisfaction level has some thing to do with their willingness to pay.
 
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eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I'm single and retired on fixed income. Yes, it's getting more costly to go on a Disney Vacation. Would I like it to be less costly...of course I would, then I wouldn't have to be deciding to go a fewer number of days, or stay off site rather than onsite. Or, eating cheaper, so I can go an additional day or two. But for me...and maybe for many other Disney lovers, you figure out where to cut your vacation costs so you can continue to go. Will I be priced out someday...I hope not. I do know many of my Disney loving family members are also making these types of decisions so they can continue to enjoy that Magical vacation. I don't think this is any different than figuring out other ways to budget as everything else goes up in price and income doesn't match those rising costs.

Thankyou, thankyou, thank you

that's pretty much how normal life works. you have an item, product, vacation destination, you research, get the cost and then either figure out a way to pay for it or you realize that the cost is out of your budget or you can afford it but don't feel like the experience is worth the cost.
This site (and I admit I don't hang out on a lot of fan sites) is the only one I've ever been to where people feel they are owed a affordable vacation.
Does anyone "like" paying higher prices? no but this is one area where folks have many, many choices.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Why? I would think "willingness " to pay would be a great indicator of satisfaction. Seriously? You continuously go to vacation places where you are not satisfied or feel you are getting fleeced?

When there is only one place to get that product... you give up alot of your mobility. Plus, there is the topic of 'how far is too far'.

Price tolerance is not some binary thing. A customer is in a balance all the time about what they like about a product and what they don't like. Just because you buy it doesn't mean there aren't elements you are not happy about. It's a question of do you reach a tipping point to actually make the change.

Think smartphones... is anyone happy to pay $800 for a smartphone vs the $400 they used to pay just a few years back? No.. if people felt they had a real alternative, would they change? Yes.. but today, they pay the $800 not because they feel it's worth it and are happy about it... but because they feel it's the best compromise of what they desire vs what they are willing to tolerate.

Another more relevant example... Parking fees. Just because someone pays the parking fee, does not mean they are ok with it or are satisfied with the service or price... they often are in a captive situation where paying the fee is the lesser of evils and just gets them closer to what they really were after (the venue.. the theme park.. etc).

Or to bring it all the way back to Joe's example... things like tour packages. Do people set off thinking "what I really need is.. a personal assistant to enjoy my vacation" -- No, most do it because they were told this is the best way to avoid all the negatives while getting some positives too. The person with the disposable income and willingness to 'buy their way out of pain' will pay the price to get the end game. "hey it made my kid happy... so what if it cost $3000... saved me from having cranky kids and they got to meet Mickey all by themselves!". It's 'worth it' to them to pay to make the pain go away. They aren't really setting out to spend that kind of money.. they just take the shortest path.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
When there is only one place to get that product... you give up alot of your mobility. Plus, there is the topic of 'how far is too far'.

Price tolerance is not some binary thing. A customer is in a balance all the time about what they like about a product and what they don't like. Just because you buy it doesn't mean there aren't elements you are not happy about. It's a question of do you reach a tipping point to actually make the change.

Think smartphones... is anyone happy to pay $800 for a smartphone vs the $400 they used to pay just a few years back? No.. if people felt they had a real alternative, would they change? Yes.. but today, they pay the $800 not because they feel it's worth it and are happy about it... but because they feel it's the best compromise of what they desire vs what they are willing to tolerate.

Another more relevant example... Parking fees. Just because someone pays the parking fee, does not mean they are ok with it or are satisfied with the service or price... they often are in a captive situation where paying the fee is the lesser of evils and just gets them closer to what they really were after (the venue.. the theme park.. etc).

Or to bring it all the way back to Joe's example... things like tour packages. Do people set off thinking "what I really need is.. a personal assistant to enjoy my vacation" -- No, most do it because they were told this is the best way to avoid all the negatives while getting some positives too. The person with the disposable income and willingness to 'buy their way out of pain' will pay the price to get the end game. "hey it made my kid happy... so what if it cost $3000... saved me from having cranky kids and they got to meet Mickey all by themselves!". It's 'worth it' to them to pay to make the pain go away. They aren't really setting out to spend that kind of money.. they just take the shortest path.

Very true but I think the assumption is that there is only "one place" to get a good vacation is fading. cruises, all inclusives and even major cities are stepping up and have stepped up their game in family fun. Now Disney does have a unique brand that lord knows they market very well but unlike many here I don't think the public is stupid. There are really too many family vacations options that they have to settle.

And we are seeing the same thing with smart phones. Now we have an entire market for people like me who are not paying ridiculous prices for phones or phone plans. I got a samsung G from cricket for 99 bucks. Is it the latest model? heck no but I'm old, all I need is the ability to call and text.

That's why I always say the consumer is in control. I totally, totally agree that satisfaction is not a static, binary thing so many Disney vacationers look at the "overall" price because there are so many ways to cut cost but I do think if the overall feeling was that they were not getting what they paid for or that they were getting "fleeced" then we would/will see a decrease in crowds.

I think it is because they feel they are getting a good vacation that they do pay the prices. If what everyone says is true about how people are charging vacations, are they doing htat and feeling unsatisfied??
 
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