VIDEO - Tom Staggs joins D11 conference to talk MagicBands and MyMagic+

[Tim_4]

You've said that repeatedly, but it's not that simple. If you don't wear a band, you're also subjecting yourself to a lesser experience, according to reports. The idea of just keeping a KTTW card and it's "no harm, no foul" isn't accurate, if the reports are true.

Sure, just like your experience will change if you opt against Park Hopper or stay off property or don't speak English or arrive at the park at noon. Life is full of choices. There's no "minus" of opting out of the band, you're just excluding yourself from some of the "plusses."

 

[MattM]

The WIF issue is not going to be limited to WDW. Already the issue exists with the original B and G spectrums, and makes it unusable in many areas (it only had 3 real RF frequencies do to BW). This was overcome by the newer A and N spectrums of 802.11. But the same issues that B and G had, that took years to happen are happening to the A and N spectrum in less that 2 years. The only way that it can be overcome is that every single person that uses WiFi, will have to have their own specific switched connection, and that is not possible with today's technology and the way the FCC allows RF to be used.

Everything you just said is beyond me haha but you seem to know what you're talking about.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Everyone has a different definition. That's actually my point in the other thread.

What??

You're comparing people being upset that effects that were INITIALLY DESIGNED AND INSTALLED AND EXPERIENCED in an attraction with people being upset about billions being spent on MM+.

That's not apples and oranges... That's apples and football bats.

For your point to make ANY sense, it would have to be people being upset about how much Dinosaur cost to build, or after full roll-out of MM+ with all the features, having a bunch stop working without getting fixed.

I've never seen one person complain about the former... And I can PROMISE you a lot of us will when the latter occurs.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

... Double post

 

[MattM]

Sure, just like your experience will change if you opt against Park Hopper or stay off property or don't speak English or arrive at the park at noon. Life is full of choices. There's no "minus" of opting out of the band, you're just excluding yourself from some of the "plusses."

Good illustration.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Sure, just like your experience will change if you opt against Park Hopper or stay off property or don't speak English or arrive at the park at noon. Life is full of choices. There's no "minus" of opting out of the band, you're just excluding yourself from some of the "plusses."

Ha! You're making me dizzy from that spin.

 

[ddrongowski]

Yes, with an iPhone5.

But the wifi was brutal too, which was more troublesome to me. I mean, that's what they're basing the success of MM+ on... Everyone's ability to be live and online at the same time... And it was HORRIBLE. And that's without them plastering all over the maps and so forth that people should use their wifi, which I'm sure they'll do. I can't imagine how much worse it will be with 80% of the crowd fighting for bandwidth.

I've written in detail about my experience in March on here elsewhere, but it was really frustrating.

This is exactly the problem with WiFi. It is a "shared" media. What does that mean? Let me explain.

When phones came out long ago, they were "shared" lines (called party lines).
Party lines were one phone number shared by a group of people, (it would allow people to split the cost of the then expensive new humanless patch phone system).
But how it worked was if you picked up your phone, and instead of a dial tone you may hear someone else using it (aka someone from the party).
If it was busy you hung up and tried again later, since only one call could be done at a time.
Later on when "switched" technology got cheaper everyone got their only private line.

Your data plan is like "switched" phone systems.
Your WiFi part of you phone, computer, I-whatever is like the "shared" party line system.

So on a "shared" system everyone is trying to use the same line at the same time. It is amazing that it works as well as it has because it is limited. Limited by bandwidth called bits per second or bps. On the B and G WiFi system it is limited to 11 million bits per second. But if 2 people are on it is split in half 5.5 million bits per second. If 11 people are on it they each get 1 million bits per second, This is not exactly technically true of the math but you get the idea. Now A WiFi has 54 million bits per second, put 54 people on it and your back to 1 million bits per second. N has 54 to 600 million bits per second, and that sounds really awesome, but its problem is that you have to have lots and lots of access points (access point is the radio transceiver for WiFi) very close together. Imagine having cell towers every 1000 square feet (can you say eye sore). There is a lot more to it, but that should help folks understand the WiFi dilemma.

 

[Tim_4]

Ha! You're making me dizzy from that spin.

No spin. I'm personally not a fan of the bands either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to feign outrage over Disney's audacity to offer them. If the plus features are "worth it" to me, I'll wear my band. If not, I'll stick the ticket in my wallet. That is all.

 

[dadddio]

What??

You're comparing people being upset that effects that were INITIALLY DESIGNED AND INSTALLED AND EXPERIENCED in an attraction with people being upset about billions being spent on MM+.

That's not apples and oranges... That's apples and football bats.

For your point to make ANY sense, it would have to be people being upset about how much Dinosaur cost to build, or after full roll-out of MM+ with all the features, having a bunch stop working without getting fixed.

I've never seen one person complain about the former... And I can PROMISE you a lot of us will when the latter occurs.

If you reread my post and the one that led up to that one, you will note that I was discussing the option of the princess knowing a child's name versus her not knowing a child's name.

If the thread is about whether or not we should be upset about the huge pile of money that was spent on MM+, then that answer is simple. Unless you are a stockholder, you should not be upset by this. After all, it really is none of your business how someone spends their money. If you are a stockholder, vote your position or sell your stock. Other than that, getting upset because some company made an operational decision that you don't understand but have still decided is bad simply makes no sense to me.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

This is exactly the problem with WiFi. It is a "shared" media. What does that mean? Let me explain.

When phones came out long ago, they were "shared" lines (called party lines).
Party lines were one phone number shared by a group of people, (it would allow people to split the cost of the a then expensive new humanless patch phone system).
But how it worked was if you picked up your phone, and instead of a dial tone you may hear someone else using it (aka someone from the party).
If it was busy you hung up and tried again later, since only one call could be done at a time.
Later on when "switched" technology got cheaper everyone got their only private line.

Your data plan is like "switched" phone systems.
Your WiFi part of you phone, computer, I-whatever is like the "shared" party line system.

So on a "shared" system everyone is trying to use the same line at the same time. It is amazing that it works as well as it has because it is limited. Limited by bandwidth called bits per second or bps. On the B and G WiFi system it is limited to 11 million bits per second. But if 2 people are on it is split in half 5.5 million bits per second. If 11 people are on it they each get 1 million bits per second, This is not exactly technically true of the math but you get the idea. Now A WiFi has 54 million bits per second, put 54 people on it and your back to 1 million bits per second. N has 54 to 600 million bits per second, and that sounds really awesome, but it problem is that you have to have lots and lots of access points (access point is the radio transceiver for WiFi) very close together. Imagine have cell towers every 1000 square feet (can you say eye sore). There is a lot more to it, but that should help.

Good explanation.

 

[Clamman73]

So on a "shared" system everyone is trying to use the same line at the same time. It is amazing that it works as well as it has because it is limited. Limited by bandwidth called bits per second or bps. On the B and G WiFi system it is limited to 11 million bits per second. But if 2 people are on it is split in half 5.5 million bits per second. If 11 people are on it they each get 1 million bits per second, This is not exactly technically true of the math but you get the idea. Now A WiFi has 54 million bits per second, put 54 people on it and your back to 1 million bits per second. N has 54 to 600 million bits per second, and that sounds really awesome, but its problem is that you have to have lots and lots of access points (access point is the radio transceiver for WiFi) very close together. Imagine havin cell towers every 1000 square feet (can you say eye sore). There is a lot more to it, but that should help folks understand the WiFi dilemma.

You think Disney already went ahead and had wireless AC routers put in the Parks???

 

[ddrongowski]

Mkay. So you don't think that every single pre-teen to teenager to tween will be staring at their phone, ON TOP of the people that are actually trying to use their phones for in-park reasons? When's the last time you were at a mall??

It will ABSOLUTELY be 80%. For a vast majority of those in the park, if they know there's free wifi, they're gonna use it. Wait in line for any attraction now. Everyone is staring at their phones ALREADY, and that's with non-existant to horrible wifi service, and spotty cell reception.

Even if they do not use their WiFi device, if it is on it is using bandwidth just for the functional part of the 802.11 standard. Compare it to your modern day TV, even though it is off it is still using some electricity from wall.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

No spin. I'm personally not a fan of the bands either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to feign outrage over Disney's audacity to offer them. If the plus features are "worth it" to me, I'll wear my band. If not, I'll stick the ticket in my wallet. That is all.

If you don't play by their rules, you won't have the same experience as the person next to you that did. Both me and the person next to me could both pay exactly the same for our tickets. We both could have walked through the gates at the same moment. The two of us could be on a completely equal plane. But because he has a band and I don't, my experience will differ from his for the rest of the day. That creates a class system that didn't previously exist, at least not to any great extent. I think it's a slippery slope.

And look. I'm not insanely against these bands. Honestly, I really don't care. My issue with MM+ has always been about FP and entitlements to resort guests and other ways that the "overall" experience of MM+ will create over time. I've said it over and over, but after this program has been in place for a while, it's going to start nickel and diming people to death, and creating an even deeper divide between the "haves" and the "have nots". That's the issue I've got with it all... The bigger picture of where all this is undeniably heading.

 

[ddrongowski]

You think Disney already went ahead and had wireless AC routers put in the Parks???

I know for a fact that 3 years ago I was using the A spectrum WiFi at WDW. They also at the same time offer B and G, but if you just let your device do its "thing", you may be slower on the A spectrum.

Think of it this way.

"A" spectrum 54Mbps = fast in WiFi devices setup, so if "A" is available a device will default to it. But everyone else's device is also doing the same thing by default. So the "B" and "G" spectrums, even though they are slower 11Mbps may not be being used. With that said lets do some math...

"A" spectrum 54Mbps divided my 15 users... each will get 3.6Mbps
"B" or "G" spectrum 11Mbps divided by 2 users, because they shut off "A" spectrum on their devices just to see if it would be faster, will get 5.5Mbps.

So even though "A" spectrum is there, it maybe a worse connection to use.

Oh and they are "Access Points" not "routers". Two totally different things. Routers do not do WiFi. That said most peoples ISP modem (sometimes incorrectly called a router) has a WiFi access point built into it along with a 4 port switch.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

If you reread my post and the one that led up to that one, you will note that I was discussing the option of the princess knowing a child's name versus her not knowing a child's name.

If the thread is about whether or not we should be upset about the huge pile of money that was spent on MM+, then that answer is simple. Unless you are a stockholder, you should not be upset by this. After all, it really is none of your business how someone spends their money. If you are a stockholder, vote your position or sell your stock. Other than that, getting upset because some company made an operational decision that you don't understand but have still decided is bad simply makes no sense to me.

So as a paying customer, I can't be upset knowing they've spent 2 billion (and counting) on a technology whose primary purpose is data mining and a staffing reduction tool while creating a class system for guests in the park, while dozens of locations within their existing parks atrophy and just as many guest areas stand shuttered?

How does that not make sense?

And before you say it... I already know I can quit giving them my money. And by and large, I've done just that. Our 3 or 4 times a year trips (with 10 nights each trip in a Disney resort, plus all that goes along with that) have been cut down to two 5 day trips over the past two years, staying off site.

But just because I've "voted with my wallet" doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion in a forum where it might matter.

 

[Tim_4]

If you don't play by their rules, you won't have the same experience as the person next to you that did. Both me and the person next to me could both pay exactly the same for our tickets. We both could have walked through the gates at the same moment. The two of us could be on a completely equal plane. But because he has a band and I don't, my experience will differ from his for the rest of the day. That creates a class system that didn't previously exist, at least not to any great extent. I think it's a slippery slope.

And look. I'm not insanely against these bands. Honestly, I really don't care. My issue with MM+ has always been about FP and entitlements to resort guests and other ways that the "overall" experience of MM+ will create over time. I've said it over and over, but after this program has been in place for a while, it's going to start nickel and diming people to death, and creating an even deeper divide between the "haves" and the "have nots". That's the issue I've got with it all... The bigger picture of where all this is undeniably heading.

I've heard the argument about a class system before but I'm not buying it with the bands exactly because they don't cost extra. The only reason the person in your scenario isn't having the same experience as his peers is because he didn't feel like wearing one. Not because he's less wealthy or didn't pay a premium or any other "haves versus have nots" arguments.

Also I've never not had fun at a place because someone else is having more fun. Some people can afford Club Level at the Poly. I cannot. Doesn't hurt my feelings.

 

[MattM]

If the thread is about whether or not we should be upset about the huge pile of money that was spent on MM+, then that answer is simple. Unless you are a stockholder, you should not be upset by this. After all, it really is none of your business how someone spends their money. If you are a stockholder, vote your position or sell your stock. Other than that, getting upset because some company made an operational decision that you don't understand but have still decided is bad simply makes no sense to me.

Actually, if it has one of the effects that Disney is aiming for of keeping more people on property for longer periods of time, then shareholders should be happy because they will most likely be spending more money while spending more time on property.

 

[englanddg]

So as a paying customer, I can't be upset knowing they've spent 2 billion (and counting) on a technology whose primary purpose is data mining and a staffing reduction tool while creating a class system for guests in the park, while dozens of locations within their existing parks atrophy and just as many guest areas stand shuttered?

How does that not make sense?

And before you say it... I already know I can quit giving them my money. And by and large, I've done just that. Our 3 or 4 times a year trips (with 10 nights each trip in a Disney resort, plus all that goes along with that) have been cut down to two 5 day trips over the past two years, staying off site.

But just because I've "voted with my wallet" doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion in a forum where it might matter.

It is sortof like investing in fancy new spinning rims for your car when the right windshield wiper doesn't work, the left rear door handle is jammed, and the engine is making puttering noises.

 

[ddrongowski]

It is sortof like investing in fancy new spinning rims for your car when the right windshield wiper doesn't work, the left rear door handle is jammed, and the engine is making puttering noises.

But the paint looks good, and that's what matters......

 

[flynnibus]

I know for a fact that 3 years ago I was using the A spectrum WiFi at WDW. They also at the same time offer B and G, but if you just let your device do its "thing", you may be slower on the A spectrum.

He was talking about 802.11ac - not A. AC is the next standard in draft to replace N.