Very interesting video

[JIMINYCR]

Yeah I think the only stereotype there is "lists written by dudes', ha ha. If I had written a "top of my head" comment on things people waste money on, I probably would have included giving in to their kid's frivolous demands too often / buying them the Nikes they will outgrow in 6 months instead of generic shoes, vacations, accessories, and home decor. I don't even buy all of those things (the first two basically erased the last two from the list, lol,) but that's just what would seem like likely sources of spending to me.

I certainly could have added a looong list of frivolous things people waste their money on but I kept it short. The point was that people who complain they can’t afford Disney can find a way to spend on many other things that they see as more of a priority. So cut those things out and save your money for a trip if that’s what you want to do. Stop saying it’s not affordable when it’s your choice to spend those dollars elsewhere.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I certainly could have added a looong list of frivolous things people waste their money on but I kept it short. The point was that people who complain they can’t afford Disney can find a way to spend on many other things that they see as more of a priority. So cut those things out and save your money for a trip if that’s what you want to do. Stop saying it’s not affordable when it’s your choice to spend those dollars elsewhere.

Let's categorize this into two different fields.

The first one are those who complain because of more important priorities. They can scrap together the money but it would have to come from so other need to do so. So they simplify it by saying they can't afford it. Which is called being fiscally responsible. Hard for me to fault them.

The Second one is for those that are unable to pay their current necessities and have no money at all, in fact they are in a negative income situation and really truly do not have a pot to p*** in, much less a window to throw it out of. These are real problems and they are not so much complaining as feeling sad about it.

There is a difference.

 

[Chi84]

Let's categorize this into two different fields.

The first one are those who complain because of more important priorities. They can scrap together the money but it would have to come from so other need to do so. So they simplify it by saying they can't afford it. Which is called being fiscally responsible. Hard for me to fault them.

The Second one is for those that are unable to pay their current necessities and have no money at all, in fact they are in a negative income situation and really truly do not have a pot to p*** in, much less a window to throw it out of. These are real problems and they are not so much complaining as feeling sad about it.

There is a difference.

Of course that’s true.

But we’re talking about people who visit Disney, so the second field doesn’t come into play.

At least it didn’t until another poster tried to conflate the two.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I certainly could have added a looong list of frivolous things people waste their money on but I kept it short. The point was that people who complain they can’t afford Disney can find a way to spend on many other things that they see as more of a priority. So cut those things out and save your money for a trip if that’s what you want to do. Stop saying it’s not affordable when it’s your choice to spend those dollars elsewhere.

While I did not agree that you were stereotyping people with your list, I also do not agree with your assertion that most people could afford Disney if they gave up a few niceties in their day to day life.

For a family of four staying for about a week, let’s say park tickets are about 3k, value hotel is about 1,500, food is about 2k. That’s 6,500 without adding anything extravagant or high end. It also doesn’t include any souvenirs, stroller rentals, transportation to Orlando, parking, photos, Magic Bands, or unforeseen vacation expenses like buying everyone a poncho.

With that a family would need to save around $550 a month (just under, but let’s round up as I gave a low estimate). Do people have small luxuries? Sure. $550 a month of small luxuries? Doubtful.

I think there’s a significant grey area there where yes, people could afford Disney if they cut out little Billy’s karate class and stuck to mostly low cost groceries and bought used clothing and so on. (I say that’s the grey area because anything beyond that, like skipping meals or not putting money into a retirement account, is more black and white - people shouldn’t be doing that.) Personally I think that’s a questionable trade off though. Prioritize quality of life for a seven day trip, or for the other 358 days of the year?

 

[Tom P.]

With that a family would need to save around $550 a month (just under, but let’s round up as I gave a low estimate). Do people have small luxuries? Sure. $550 a month of small luxuries? Doubtful.

How many people go through the Starbucks drive through every day on their way to work? You could *easily* spend $200 a month just on drinks at Starbucks if you are going five days a week, and that's if you're only ordering one drink and nothing else. Now imagine both the husband and wife work and do that. Now we're up to $400 per month. And a daily Starbucks habit is not exactly an unusual or outlandish thing today.

I think getting to $550 per month in "luxuries" would not be difficult for the average middle class family at all.

Now, I agree with your broader point that sacrificing all the day-to-day quality of life things for a one week trip to Disney might not be a good tradeoff. But I do think you're underestimating how much money people spend on "luxuries," often without even realizing it.

 

[Chi84]

While I did not agree that you were stereotyping people with your list, I also do not agree with your assertion that most people could afford Disney if they gave up a few niceties in their day to day life.

For a family of four staying for about a week, let’s say park tickets are about 3k, value hotel is about 1,500, food is about 2k. That’s 6,500 without adding anything extravagant or high end. It also doesn’t include any souvenirs, stroller rentals, transportation to Orlando, parking, photos, Magic Bands, or unforeseen vacation expenses like buying everyone a poncho.

With that a family would need to save around $550 a month (just under, but let’s round up as I gave a low estimate). Do people have small luxuries? Sure. $550 a month of small luxuries? Doubtful.

I think there’s a significant grey area there where yes, people could afford Disney if they cut out little Billy’s karate class and stuck to mostly low cost groceries and bought used clothing and so on. (I say that’s the grey area because anything beyond that, like skipping meals or not putting money into a retirement account, is more black and white - people shouldn’t be doing that.) Personally I think that’s a questionable trade off though. Prioritize quality of life for a seven day trip, or for the other 358 days of the year?

Did he say “most” people? I think it’s clear most people can’t afford Disney.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Did he say “most” people? I think it’s clear most people can’t afford Disney.

I think that was the implication based on their posts, yes. I appreciate the can-do attitude but given the cost of living these days, I don’t agree with it.

 

[DisneyHead123]

How many people go through the Starbucks drive through every day on their way to work? You could *easily* spend $200 a month just on drinks at Starbucks if you are going five days a week, and that's if you're only ordering one drink and nothing else. Now imagine both the husband and wife work and do that. Now we're up to $400 per month. And a daily Starbucks habit is not exactly an unusual or outlandish thing today.

I think getting to $550 per month in "luxuries" would not be difficult for the average middle class family at all.

Now, I agree with your broader point that sacrificing all the day-to-day quality of life things for a one week trip to Disney might not be a good tradeoff. But I do think you're underestimating how much money people spend on "luxuries," often without even realizing it.

I think buying Starbucks for two people literally every day goes beyond the small indulgences of most people. Unless they’re getting a sugary latte that is essentially breakfast, in which case, they’d have to start buying enough groceries to have breakfast at home, which would offset some of those savings.

I get Starbucks literally like twice a year though, so maybe my understanding of coffee lovers is off. If there really are people doing that, I guess I go back to - a vacation is a few days of your life, the rest of your life is literally every day. If you have to give up the small things that make your everyday life good to vacation for a few days? That’s not a worthwhile trade to my mind.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

I think buying Starbucks for two people literally every day goes beyond the small indulgences of most people. Unless they’re getting a sugary latte that is essentially breakfast, in which case, they’d have to start buying enough groceries to have breakfast at home, which would offset some of those savings.

I get Starbucks literally like twice a year though, so maybe my understanding of coffee lovers is off. If there really are people doing that, I guess I go back to - a vacation is a few days of your life, the rest of your life is literally every day. If you have to give up the small things that make your everyday life good to vacation for a few days? That’s not a worthwhile trade to my mind.

I have a woman who lives across the street that gets a Starbucks coffee delivered EVERYDAY via DoorDash…so yes, it happens…another reason why I don’t drink coffee…

 

[DisneyHead123]

I have a woman who lives across the street that gets a Starbucks coffee delivered EVERYDAY via DoorDash…so yes, it happens…another reason why I don’t drink coffee…

Is there some reason she can't just go to Starbucks? In terms of not being able to spare the time or lack of transportation?

Honestly even if you spent $5 a day at Starbucks you're looking at around $150 a month, which is an indulgence but still not "Disney money". According to Google Doordashing it would be like $15 - 20 though.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Is there some reason she can't just go to Starbucks? In terms of not being able to spare the time or lack of transportation?

Honestly even if you spent $5 a day at Starbucks you're looking at around $150 a month, which is an indulgence but still not "Disney money". According to Google Doordashing it would be like $15 - 20 though.

2…laziness and entitlement

 

[DisneyHead123]

2…laziness and entitlement

Well hey, to each their own, but yeah, in that case I would gladly trade the $20 daily coffee for another Disney trip!

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Well hey, to each their own, but yeah, in that case I would gladly trade the $20 daily coffee for another Disney trip!

I have no quarrel with your position stated in the last 3-4 posts. But I would say they is a reasonably large amount of people in the middle of the economic scale that spend a meaningful amount of money on items like coffee , delivery food, high cost drinks from gas stations, 3-6 streaming accounts, amazon purchases etc , etc etc , etc. ( you fill I the blank)that are fungible toward the cost of a vacation if so desired. Are these Family's in the bottom 30%. ( as far as earnings) NO. But IMHO there is a meaningful amount of people who can shift their speeding to afford a trip to Disney if they wanted.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I have no quarrel with your position stated in the last 3-4 posts. But I would say they is a reasonably large amount of people in the middle of the economic scale that spend a meaningful amount of money on items like coffee , delivery food, high cost drinks from gas stations, 3-6 streaming accounts, amazon purchases etc , etc etc , etc. ( you fill I the blank)that are fungible toward the cost of a vacation if so desired. Are these Family's in the bottom 30%. ( as far as earnings) NO. But IMHO there is a meaningful amount of people who can shift their speeding to afford a trip to Disney if they wanted.

All I can really say about this is that it doesn’t jive with my intuitions, but, without actual data, it’s not fair to conclude things one way or the other.

My thinking is that the fundamentals of life are incredibly expensive right now. The people for whom takeout food and coffee is a make or break issue when it comes to vacation are likely a small swath between “no way we could afford a Disney trip” and “we can easily afford a couple Disney trips a year”. Again, just my intuitions though. Takeout food and coffee, when stacked against cooking a well rounded, nutritious meal at home and brewing your own coffee, should only be costing about $300 extra a month, maybe. Say you cut that by 50% to $150 a month (because otherwise you’re saying that middle class people who want to go to Disney can literally never get Friday night pizza or do a Starbucks run… so let’s say realistically the goal is to cut, not get to absolute zero.) I mean, with $150 savings a month you could maybe do a trip every three years, so it’s something, but not an annual vacation.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

All I can really say about this is that it doesn’t jive with my intuitions, but, without actual data, it’s not fair to conclude things one way or the other.

My thinking is that the fundamentals of life are incredibly expensive right now. The people for whom takeout food and coffee is a make or break issue when it comes to vacation are likely a small swath between “no way we could afford a Disney trip” and “we can easily afford a couple Disney trips a year”. Again, just my intuitions though. Takeout food and coffee, when stacked against cooking a well rounded, nutritious meal at home and brewing your own coffee, should only be costing about $300 extra a month, maybe. Say you cut that by 50% to $150 a month (because otherwise you’re saying that middle class people who want to go to Disney can literally never get Friday night pizza or do a Starbucks run… so let’s say realistically the goal is to cut, not get to absolute zero.) I mean, with $150 savings a month you could maybe do a trip every three years, so it’s something, but not an annual vacation.

You are just counting coffee and delivery food. Re-read my post. I am saying many people in the middle and upper middle have budgets that can be shifted give them choices. people can't do everything, but they can make choices. Not everyone but the top 60% in my opinion can and do every day.

 

[DisneyHead123]

You are just counting coffee and delivery food. Re-read my post. I am saying many people in the middle and upper middle have budgets that can be shifted give them choices. people do everything, but they can make choices. Not everyone but the top 60%bin my opinion can and do every day.

Some of that I’m not sure how to frame. Streaming services, for example, are basically a cable replacement. When I was growing up cable was fairly standard, it wasn’t considered a frivolous extravagance. Amazon purchases could be extras but they could also be groceries.

Again, my intuitions are different, but they’re just that, intuitions. Life is so expensive right now, I find it hard to believe many middle class families are frittering away thousands and thousands on things they could easily cut. I think people have already been belt tightening with inflation, I really doubt most middle class families are just swimming in all this extra money.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Of course that’s true.

But we’re talking about people who visit Disney, so the second field doesn’t come into play.

At least it didn’t until another poster tried to conflate the two.

Yes, I know, however, lets take into account that fact that the second group is growing bigger and bigger in recent times. In my life I have fluctuated between the two but in recent years I have been stuck in the lower scenario due to the joys of aging both physically and financially.

The problem with the second one is there are a lot of new members that were once solid into the first group. That being people that had a little excess (not much) but might be able to scrap together a few more dollars here and there. I suspect that over the years, that group would have been a very large portion of the regulars at WDW. I really think that a whole lot of those people were forced into the second example. I also believe that those were the backbone and reason for the massive success of the park. Disney decided to cater to the wealthy and ignore what was once their core. And it is my opinion is that they may suck tons of cash out of them right now, but they will never be the return guest. They can afford a lot of other things to do that have nothing to do with Disney. Or they can afford to go to the international parks like Toyko, Paris and the other parks in Asia. I feel it might take another year or two, but eventually they will get bored with WDW and find some other adventure.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

How many people go through the Starbucks drive through every day on their way to work? You could *easily* spend $200 a month just on drinks at Starbucks if you are going five days a week, and that's if you're only ordering one drink and nothing else. Now imagine both the husband and wife work and do that. Now we're up to $400 per month. And a daily Starbucks habit is not exactly an unusual or outlandish thing today.

I think getting to $550 per month in "luxuries" would not be difficult for the average middle class family at all.

Now, I agree with your broader point that sacrificing all the day-to-day quality of life things for a one week trip to Disney might not be a good tradeoff. But I do think you're underestimating how much money people spend on "luxuries," often without even realizing it.

This is going to be way off topic, but I can't wrap my head around people spending that much for coffee!!! I make my own and always have. I have family who only drink Starbucks. Can it really cost that much per month for a 5 day a week coffee at Starbucks? That sounds crazy to me.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Agreed!! My oldest DD started making her own because of Starbuck’s prices…
I’m sorta guilty also because my caffeine addiction is Diet Pepsi…I’m good for 2-3 super big gulps /day…I DO buy refills (thus saving almost .50/per soda ) & I get the 7th one free.
Now before you say just buy 2liter bottles or cans when they’re on sale (which is a legitimate argument), cans & bottles are made with Nutra-Sweet & fountain sodas are made with saccharine which tastes completely different. Yup, I’m guilty too, BUT I’m trying to do my part to at least TRY to save some cash…lol

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Yes, I know, however, lets take into account that fact that the second group is growing bigger and bigger in recent times. In my life I have fluctuated between the two but in recent years I have been stuck in the lower scenario due to the joys of aging both physically and financially.

The problem with the second one is there are a lot of new members that were once solid into the first group. That being people that had a little excess (not much) but might be able to scrap together a few more dollars here and there. I suspect that over the years, that group would have been a very large portion of the regulars at WDW. I really think that a whole lot of those people were forced into the second example. I also believe that those were the backbone and reason for the massive success of the park. Disney decided to cater to the wealthy and ignore what was once their core. And it is my opinion is that they may suck tons of cash out of them right now, but they will never be the return guest. They can afford a lot of other things to do that have nothing to do with Disney. Or they can afford to go to the international parks like Toyko, Paris and the other parks in Asia. I feel it might take another year or two, but eventually they will get bored with WDW and find some other adventure.

If what you are describing is true of the modern economic trend, (and for the purposes of this thread i am going to just assume it is) than WDW is absolutely doing the right thing, and maybe the only thing it should be doing in targeting higher earning families. Because the issue with the second group you have and that you say is getting bigger, is that it doesn't matter what WDW offers, and for what cost/price. Those people who don't have a pot to in aren't buying WDW vacations period. There is no cutting prices or increasing offering at any level which make them a viable market. As such from a business standpoint, they don't figure into any planning whatsoever.

And if you are correct in that the first group is shrinking, as people move into the second group, it means WDW shouldn't be targeting/marketing to that group either. What that leaves is targeting customers with higher wealth, and getting them to spend more per visit, even if the repeat visits aren't there because....that is the only market to tap.