Very interesting video

[SteveAZee]

That’s fair. There are a lot of posters who want to discuss memories of Disney’s past.

If it’s to commiserate I understand that a message board is the perfect place.

I do question the notion that current visitors need to be told that the experience they’re getting is not what it used to be.

They can’t go back in time to experience what is no longer there. They can refuse to go but all they’re doing is depriving themselves of what millions of people find to be an excellent vacation just because it used to be better.

Different people like different things. I loved everything about WDW in 2019 but struggled with the crowds. Our last trip in 2024 was much better.

If I go back in time to my first visit, 1973, I'd miss out on nearly every attraction I go to the parks for now. I'd think 2026 is pretty cool.

 

[Chi84]

If I go back in time to my first visit, 1973, I'd miss out on nearly every attraction I go to the parks for now. I'd think 2026 is pretty cool.

I think people undervalue how much more there is to do in WDW than decades ago.

 

[Tom P.]

So the TL;DR version of this thread is that we shouldn't care what the dead founder thought 60 years ago because it's irrelevant, but every guest should be intimately aware of what WDW was like 30 years ago so that they can know how awful it is today. Do I have that right?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

So the TL;DR version of this thread is that we shouldn't care what the dead founder thought 60 years ago because it's irrelevant, but every guest should be intimately aware of what WDW was like 30 years ago so that they can know how awful it is today. Do I have that right?

No. Your post reads more like trolling than a genuine question. Still, I will humor you.

1. A portion of this forum is open-minded, but a few regulars have trouble imagining life from outside their own personal experience.

Saying "everyone could afford a trip to WDW" if they were just willing to give up cable television and their habit of buying lottery tickets, to my ear, has a ring of, "Let them eat cake." It assumes everyone has disposable income, and the ability to travel. (If anyone disagree, then I suggest spending a day volunteering at one's local food pantry, and asking the people there why they don't go to WDW every year.)


2. A small cohort of this forum has developed what has been called an evangelical fandom (of Disney). They so deeply identify as fans of WDW/Disney, that they tend to view criticism of WDW as a personal attack. Ironically, while they claim to love WDW, their posts more often feed forum negativity, instead of praising what they love about WDW.


Your posts in this thread have all been critical, especially towards everyone else. Are you okay?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I still don’t know who or what is being stereotyped.

I do understand that there are a lot of people who will never have the means to visit the Disney parks because all their money goes to necessities. And the number who can afford to visit is decreasing.

But as far as calling someone out for stereotyping?

That is exactly what I meant.
People who can't afford basic necessities can't afford a trip to WDW.

But a good chunk of this country is now regularly fed false propaganda about the nature of poverty, that poverty is the fault of the poor. Everyone could be rich if they just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and gave up all their vices.

The reality is, many Americans are just one emergency away from poverty, but that's scary. It is far more comforting to believe the propaganda.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That's essentially what Iger said YEARS ago.

“The company was willing to sacrifice some theme park attendance in exchange for higher revenue and better guest experience” — Robert Iger in 2016

“In our zeal to grow profits, we may have been a little bit too aggressive about some of our pricing. I think there’s a way to continue to grow that business, but be smarter about how we price so that we maintain that brand value of accessibility.” — Iger in 2023

The problem is that they got higher revenue but DID NOT give a better guest experience. Now a newbie will not know that it is not a better experience so that is what some of us are talking about.

It is correct that we cannot go back in time, but since Disney is allegedly the place were dreams are made, it doesn't do that for all of us these days. I will probably never be able to return due to health and finances, but there are many that go now that are disappointed. Prices went up massively and at the time absolutely nothing was added that was of general appeal and many things were eliminated or became an additional charged experience. And don't kid yourself, the only reason why Disney has kicked up the building of new attractions is because of Universal investing in their future and providing new, better things to see. If Uni would have just gone with what they had before it would have probably been there but not much competition. I raised my children on Disney Parks yet they are not going back. Their parks of choice are now located just north of WDW. One of the grandchildren, soon to be 15 years old has never been any place but Busch Gardens or Dollywood. And they could afford Disney. They had no desire anymore and their children have never asked to go there. How does that bode well for the future of Disney.

Some of us, me included started dreaming of a Disney park experience watching the original Mickey Mouse Club run around Disneyworld as we literally drooled on our Fluffernutter's while watching the show. When I finally got to go and when my children were old enough to remember it, I was 35 years old. I was more excited than than they were because I know, or thought I knew, what was waiting. Do the current kids that can no longer watch the Mickey Mouse Club because it doesn't exist and Fluffernutters because everyone is either allergic to peanuts or are not allowed anything that seems "unhealthy" to pass their lips. That is what drove the "right of passage" requirement. It was the exposure to something that always felt a little out of reach, but I am living proof that it could be done with effort. It takes more then effort now. I takes either a lot of flexible income or Credit Cards that still have a maximum to be reached.

It makes us (or at least me) wonder what will be the incentive for others to go when a second mortgage is required to see maybe 5 things in one day. What will be the point of going over and over, only to the upper class. I know I'm just one person but I spent 10's of thousands of dollars going 50 times that I went to a Disney Park. Is it going to be the same thing if it actually becomes a one and done thing? Which it will be because wealthy people have the revenue to do anything they please and they will soon find other things to spend there money on.

 

[Chi84]

No. Your post reads more like trolling than a genuine question. Still, I will humor you.

1. A portion of this forum is open-minded, but a few regulars have trouble imagining life from outside their own personal experience.

Saying "everyone could afford a trip to WDW" if they were just willing to give up cable television and their habit of buying lottery tickets, to my ear, has a ring of, "Let them eat cake." It assumes everyone has disposable income, and the ability to travel. (If anyone disagree, then I suggest spending a day volunteering at one's local food pantry, and asking the people there why they don't go to WDW every year.)


2. A small cohort of this forum has developed what has been called an evangelical fandom (of Disney). They so deeply identify as fans of WDW/Disney, that they tend to view criticism of WDW as a personal attack. Ironically, while they claim to love WDW, their posts more often feed forum negativity, instead of praising what they love about WDW.


Your posts in this thread have all been critical, especially towards everyone else. Are you okay?

I think you may be reading too much into the post you're referring to. I interpreted it as meaning people with disposable income have choices in how to spend it. Very few can have everything they want; sacrifices have to be made.

People who have no disposable income and an inability to travel are not going to WDW and never have. It was always an expensive place to visit. My family certainly couldn't afford it; my first trip was as a 29-year-old when I could pay for it myself.

Of course, I agree with what you're saying about the propaganda surrounding the causes and conditions of poverty. It's only getting worse (along with the wealth gap) and people seem to be believing it more than ever today.

 

[Ayla]

The Disney defenders don't want to hear this.

I too looked through this thread because the opening video was interesting and raised some good points. It would be interesting if we could discuss the merits of points raised, but perhaps that is not possible.

Alas, Mickeyluv'r is in my screen name!

I think for me, one of the biggest changes is not just the prices going up, but the loss of the little extras WDW used to have, like the golden fastpass we once got. Remember the era when CM's gave out Mickey glitter in MK if you were there at rope drop ? WDW pens? WDW used to do all sorts of unexpected service extras that weren't advertised. That's a big part of what made it so magical.

I recall one time, a child of my extended family lost a set of Mickeyears during the parade near the Main GS office. We stopped by the office just to report them lost, to see if anyone had turned them in. This was back when the hat shop had two Singer sewing machines and they personalized them while you watched with gold thread in cursive. The lost ears said, "first haircut" from the barbershop. the CM disappeared for a few minutes and returned with a replacement pair! That was such a magical moment!

Did you ever meet Chef TJ? He was an AMAZING CM chef. I think he retired during the pandemic, but he made magic many times over for guests. He mostly created off-menu dishes for guests who are vegetarian or had food allergies. Instead of making such guests feel like 'others' he made them feel special. and he always presented the food with a flourish. Just a truly great chef!

IMO, that's what I hoped this thread would discuss.

Chef TJ "retired" due to his stalkers from social media. FB groups/Dis forums made that man's life hell.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

If I go back in time to my first visit, 1973, I'd miss out on nearly every attraction I go to the parks for now. I'd think 2026 is pretty cool.

As a small child I enjoyed the carousel. I still do. WDW's carousel has a beauty that makes it more than just a ride. America's Philadelphia Toboggan Company Carousels (WDW), Dentzel Carousels (Disneyland), and Herschell Carousels are works of art, with individually hand carved animals.

Does everyone know that WDW's carousel dates to 1917, and Disneyland's is a Dentzel that dates to 1922? It amazes me that both rides have been bringing smiles to people's faces for over 100 years. That is the magic of a carousel.

While Epic's constellation Carousel isn't a historic carousel, I love that Universal chose to put a carousel in the center of their newest park. That's a show of respect to the history of amusement/theme parks.

I'd like to draw everyone's attention to a group called the National Amusement Park Historical Association. They are members of IAPPA and work to preserve amusement/theme park history. There are also other groups dedicated to coaster and carousel history.

In the last few years, America has lost a good number of amusement parks. Over the last 20 years, America has lost a great many others. Just as I was sad to see RoA close, I'm also sad that we are about to lose Mythos. I don't think every crappy ride and eatery should be preserved, and I welcome many of the new additions and updates, but there is also value in preserving the best of the past.

Amusement rides are a positive influence on American culture. Every toddler should know the joy of riding a carousel. Affordability helps to make that possible.

 

[SteveAZee]

As a small child I enjoyed the carousel. I still do. WDW's carousel has a beauty that makes it more than just a ride. America's Philadelphia Toboggan Company Carousels (WDW), Dentzel Carousels (Disneyland), and Herschell Carousels are works of art, with individually hand carved animals.

Does everyone know that WDW's carousel dates to 1917, and Disneyland's is a Dentzel that dates to 1922? It amazes me that both rides have been bringing smiles to people's faces for over 100 years. That is the magic of a carousel.

While Epic's constellation Carousel isn't a historic carousel, I love that Universal chose to put a carousel in the center of their newest park. That's a show of respect to the history of amusement/theme parks.

I'd like to draw everyone's attention to a group called the National Amusement Park Historical Association. They are members of IAPPA and work to preserve amusement/theme park history. There are also other groups dedicated to coaster and carousel history.

In the last few years, America has lost a good number of amusement parks. Over the last 20 years, America has lost a great many others. Just as I was sad to see RoA close, I'm also sad that we are about to lose Mythos. I don't think every crappy ride and eatery should be preserved, and I welcome many of the new additions and updates, but there is also value in preserving the best of the past.

Amusement rides are a positive influence on American culture. Every toddler should know the joy of riding a carousel. Affordability helps to make that possible.

There are a few here in Oregon... including one with a familiar looking duck.

Where to Find Enchanting Carousels in Oregon

Several dedicated organizations in Oregon are working to bring back the glory days of classic carousel rides. Here's where to find and ride on colorful, hand-painted animals at spots across the state.

traveloregon.com

 

[Tom P.]

No. Your post reads more like trolling than a genuine question. Still, I will humor you.

1. A portion of this forum is open-minded, but a few regulars have trouble imagining life from outside their own personal experience.

Saying "everyone could afford a trip to WDW" if they were just willing to give up cable television and their habit of buying lottery tickets, to my ear, has a ring of, "Let them eat cake." It assumes everyone has disposable income, and the ability to travel. (If anyone disagree, then I suggest spending a day volunteering at one's local food pantry, and asking the people there why they don't go to WDW every year.)


2. A small cohort of this forum has developed what has been called an evangelical fandom (of Disney). They so deeply identify as fans of WDW/Disney, that they tend to view criticism of WDW as a personal attack. Ironically, while they claim to love WDW, their posts more often feed forum negativity, instead of praising what they love about WDW.


Your posts in this thread have all been critical, especially towards everyone else. Are you okay?

First off, I have been an active member here for 12 years, with over 3,000 posts. I don't troll. Sometimes I use sarcasm and/or humor to make a point. But I don't troll.

Second, with all due respect, I think you are allowing things like political views to cloud your interpretation of what people are saying here. I won't comment on specific political viewpoints given the "no politics" rule, but I think you are seeing things in people's posts that are not there.

No one is suggesting that homeless people or otherwise poor people can vacation at Walt Disney World. The point was in relation to the middle class audience that people keep claiming can no longer visit, insisting that Disney is now only for the rich.

I have pointed out that is a ridiculous notion, since Magic Kingdom alone continues to have 18+ million visitors per year. And it is a truthful fact that was pointed out that people make choices with their money every day and frequently make discretionary purchases that could be curtailed to save for other things. That is not controversial.

Finally, while you are right that there are some people who will defend Disney no matter what, there is also a strong contingent of people on these forums who will be down on Disney no matter what they do and who seem to get angry that there are those of us who still enjoy it.

 

[DisneyHead123]

That is exactly what I meant.
People who can't afford basic necessities can't afford a trip to WDW.

But a good chunk of this country is now regularly fed false propaganda about the nature of poverty, that poverty is the fault of the poor. Everyone could be rich if they just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and gave up all their vices.

The reality is, many Americans are just one emergency away from poverty, but that's scary. It is far more comforting to believe the propaganda.

I agree with your general point although I did find the “stereotyping” comment confusing. Maybe it’s a generational thing. Certain things like betting might have been more associated with being working class in the past, but in the internet era it’s much more ubiquitous.

But yeah, there are many versions of the old “Just stop buying avocado toast!!!” trope.

 

[Tom P.]

But yeah, there are many versions of the old “Just stop buying avocado toast!!!” trope.

I mean, you really should stop buying avocado toast, though...

 

[DisneyHead123]

I mean, you really should stop buying avocado toast, though...

So apologies, because I honestly can’t tell what’s sarcasm and what’s not anymore. If this isn’t sarcasm… ain’t nobody buying a house or funding a a Disney trip by saving $12 a week in avocado toast. I think the general point of that trope / meme / whatever is that people think any small indulgence on the part of those struggling financially is clearly “the issue”, even when often those numbers don’t add up at all.

 

[Ztonyg]

I agree 100 percent! There are many EPIC things to do and see outside of Disney

Check this survey out - Notice who is missing:
View attachment 919944
A lot of folks do not like SeaWorld Orlando, but I happen to like it.....

I'm going to #9 in a couple of weeks.

For $125 I have purchased a yearly pass to all Six Flags parks (including Cedar Point) that includes free parking as well as a free fast pass to any ride of my choosing any day I travel as well as access to a VIP lounge with free snacks. I plan to use this pass to visit Cedar Point, my local Six Flags Water park and Knott's Berry Farm (and maybe also Magic Mountain). The parks aren't anywhere as nice as Disney, but the price can't be beat.

I have a 7-year-old as well as an 8-year-old. Disney has done something that has gotten me to pursue a visit this year. They offered a 2-day child Park Hopper ticket to Disneyland that included LLMP for $166.50. The only stipulation was that I had to visit during the summer. I also then purchased 2 regularly priced adult park hoppers with LLMP. I likely wouldn't have visited Disney without this deal. I also plan to spend a day at Knott's (already included in my pass above) while in Anaheim.

My last Disney trip was a solo trip to WDW last April where I bought a 3-day park hopper with LLMP as well as purchased a 1-day park hopper to Universal/IOA (it was a month before EPIC Universe opened). I'd never be able to afford a 3-day park hopper for my whole family. I also stayed offsite at a La Quinta that offered free breakfast and only cost me approximately $117 a night.

 

[Tom P.]

So apologies, because I honestly can’t tell what’s sarcasm and what’s not anymore. If this isn’t sarcasm… ain’t nobody buying a house or funding a a Disney trip by saving $12 a week in avocado toast. I think the general point of that trope / meme / whatever is that people think any small indulgence on the part of those struggling financially is clearly “the issue”, even when often those numbers don’t add up at all.

It was humor. That's all. My wife actually likes avocado toast.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

As a small child I enjoyed the carousel. I still do. WDW's carousel has a beauty that makes it more than just a ride. America's Philadelphia Toboggan Company Carousels (WDW), Dentzel Carousels (Disneyland), and Herschell Carousels are works of art, with individually hand carved animals.

Does everyone know that WDW's carousel dates to 1917, and Disneyland's is a Dentzel that dates to 1922? It amazes me that both rides have been bringing smiles to people's faces for over 100 years. That is the magic of a carousel.

While Epic's constellation Carousel isn't a historic carousel, I love that Universal chose to put a carousel in the center of their newest park. That's a show of respect to the history of amusement/theme parks.

I'd like to draw everyone's attention to a group called the National Amusement Park Historical Association. They are members of IAPPA and work to preserve amusement/theme park history. There are also other groups dedicated to coaster and carousel history.

In the last few years, America has lost a good number of amusement parks. Over the last 20 years, America has lost a great many others. Just as I was sad to see RoA close, I'm also sad that we are about to lose Mythos. I don't think every crappy ride and eatery should be preserved, and I welcome many of the new additions and updates, but there is also value in preserving the best of the past.

Amusement rides are a positive influence on American culture. Every toddler should know the joy of riding a carousel. Affordability helps to make that possible.

And I rode that carousel (obviously with my parents) as an infant at it’s original home, Olympic Park in Irvington/Maplewood, NJ (my hometown) which is why I ride it every time we go…

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

First off, I have been an active member here for 12 years, with over 3,000 posts. I don't troll. Sometimes I use sarcasm and/or humor to make a point. But I don't troll.

Second, with all due respect, I think you are allowing things like political views to cloud your interpretation of what people are saying here. I won't comment on specific political viewpoints given the "no politics" rule, but I think you are seeing things in people's posts that are not there.

No one is suggesting that homeless people or otherwise poor people can vacation at Walt Disney World. The point was in relation to the middle class audience that people keep claiming can no longer visit, insisting that Disney is now only for the rich.

I have pointed out that is a ridiculous notion, since Magic Kingdom alone continues to have 18+ million visitors per year. And it is a truthful fact that was pointed out that people make choices with their money every day and frequently make discretionary purchases that could be curtailed to save for other things. That is not controversial.

Finally, while you are right that there are some people who will defend Disney no matter what, there is also a strong contingent of people on these forums who will be down on Disney no matter what they do and who seem to get angry that there are those of us who still enjoy it.

If you know me on this forum, then you will know I try hard to follow forum rules. I've said a number of times that a fault of informal written writing is that it is often difficult to decipher tone. A number of times, I've tried to mediate heated discussions myself when there appears to be a misunderstanding of tone. Our forum moderators do an impressive job. The forum rules prohibit sarcasm.

Telling other people how they should spend their money is a topic that comes up fairly often on this forum.

Third, I disagree with your earlier characterization. I regularly visit WDW. I post what I love about WDW, like the GoG attraction. I also said that the Galactic Starcruiser sounded like an utterly unappealing boondoggle as soon as it opened.

I participate in this forum because it has a number of forum members who see both what is good about WDW, and where WDW could improve. I appreciate the time people take to express their opinions, and to support the reasons why they feel as they do. To me, the value is not whether I agree, but how well they present their reasoning. To me, your post read as an attempt to stifle the discussion, but I appreciate your clarification.

I also think that it is fun to imagine what could be: to dream. What some see as criticism, I often see as dreaming. I dream of a better Figment ride, for example. Don't we all see that the ride dedicated to imagination could be much improved?

Alas, I had to laugh at the person who recently said the new Muppets guitar paint job looks like "unicorn vomit. " That a gem! Maybe people are a bit too critical of the new guitar. I suspect some are simply uncomfortable with change. But Disney and Universal both have a habit of trying, then revising. No change is permanent, but change is.

 

[Tom P.]

If you know me on this forum, then you will know I try hard to follow forum rules. I've said a number of times that a fault of informal written writing is that it is often difficult to decipher tone. A number of times, I've tried to mediate heated discussions myself when there appears to be a misunderstanding of tone. Our forum moderators do an impressive job. The forum rules prohibit sarcasm.

Is this true, @wdwmagic? If so, it is legitimately the first I have heard of such a rule. I attempted to search the forum rules for clarification, but could find nothing addressing this particular point.

 

[Br0ckford]

Is this true, @wdwmagic? If so, it is legitimately the first I have heard of such a rule. I attempted to search the forum rules for clarification, but could find nothing addressing this particular point.

Concerning if true. It's my only true emotion.