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Universal's Fantastic Worlds (South Expansion Complex)

JT3000

Well-Known Member
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Its a studios park. You're supposed to see backstage and visual, just like at Disney Studios. You can use IOA, but not the studios for that example.
Don't tell him about the defunct headline attraction that used to purposely take you through backstage areas of DHS. It will ruin his day.
 

David1111

Member
Challenge accepted.


What do I win? Or was I not eligible for a prize because I'm part of the Universal fandom, which you're now attempting to preemptively delegitimize because you know we'll disagree with your position, which is being presented as fact? On the Universal forum, no less. And we're the "fanboys?" For the love of Mickey, take off the blinders.
Dude that's just one cheap ('temporary' although semi-permanent) area. Of course, it looks awful, but you're creating a straw-man argument because this has nothing to do with what we were talking about. There's not a single park, not a single ride that Universal has that has incredible pacing, storytelling, etc.

Keep making straw mans though. Nobody is going to disagree with what you're saying, but it's an entirely different subject. Universal has awful areas like that too. Let's talk about how it would be nice if Universal would build as good as Disney's best for their rides and parks instead of stopping at the middle of the pack. A true fanboy would hold what they like to a high standard. I'll hate on WDW all day compared to Disneyland, Shanghai, or DisneySea for the way it's run, but at least the best of WDW excels while Uni refuses to do that next level. It's also on topic with this discussion because it unfortunately seems that Universal will not go to the next level with their new themepark. It's like Marvel, they do good, but it rarely has that umph of a Dark Knight or the Incredibles (now please don't change the subject to this :) it's just an example lol).

I'm honestly surprised by this reaction. You can like Universal while calling them out at the sametime. Think about it.
 
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David1111

Member
Its a studios park. You're supposed to see backstage and visual, just like at Disney Studios. You can use IOA, but not the studios for that example.
I'd argue that it's the sticking point for anywhere it's used. However, at HWS at least Hollywood & Sunset Boulevard do a lot of things right. It doesn't even look that bad at Uni, I feel Uni's bigger problem is how haphazard the west side of the park is and the east side is at least better themed but more random (MIB, really?).

But why do you think WDS in Paris and HWS are considered Disney's worst parks? It's still cheap and tacky, but HWS is 'built' the best of the three. I'm a huge fan tho of Uni's lineup of rides but again it goes back to what we were talking about that the rides themselves don't reach the same level of a Tot, Everest, etc. Hell, even a SDMT is ridiculously well-themed and has good pacing. It's a short D-ticket with long lines, but for its scale, it does it well, but we're talking about Disney's best rides and Uni's best and how they differ, and how the best rides have a meticulously crafted level of pacing, that create almost the feeling of a film before your eyes. Furthermore, we were also talking about the best parks and the fair comparison would be comparing literally every Disney park except HWS & WDS and they have better themes. Even California Adventure (besides Hollywoodland) has meticulously crafted rides like RSR and the park itself works really well theme wise.

Don't get me started on DisneySea/Disneyland/Shanghai/EPCOT/AK.

I'm not saying these things to trash on Universal. I have been multiple times and have really enjoyed myself, but I hold Universal to the same level as Disney especially now that they are making a third park and that prices are similar. I was really hoping that it would have an overarching theme (mind you, IPs can still be properly added), and rides made in the same vein as films.

See Shanghai's Pirates as an example. The way the siren at the front of the ship appears is like a shot from a superb film. That's only 5% of what makes the scene alone so amazing.
Even ignoring the epic sets, pay attention to the pacing, the EPIC music, etc. Even original rides can do this on the same level (they don't have to be the level of Shanghai's Pirates to do it) like Mystic Manor and Haunted Mansion, or even the storyboarding of Flight of Passage (damn straight perfection).

Again, I'm not saying this to hate on Uni, they are great competition for Disney and are hands down the second best provider of themeparks ON EARTH. But... I really wish they'd not only close the gap completely in themed-design in its entirety but beat them sometimes for their rides and overall park 'theme'. Even if they don't make a properly themed park at least push them to make their rides have that epic storytelling Disney IN ITS BEST has done so well.
 
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Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Challenge accepted.


What do I win? Or was I not eligible for a prize because I'm part of the Universal fandom, which you're now attempting to preemptively delegitimize because you know we'll disagree with your position, which is being presented as fact? On the Universal forum, no less. And we're the "fanboys?" For the love of Mickey, take off the blinders.
Touche'. I always forget that this exists.

Still, Dinorama is the very obviously the odd man out for DAK and WDW overall.
 
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JT3000

Well-Known Member
Dude that's just one cheap ('temporary' although semi-permanent) area. Of course, it looks awful, but you're creating a straw-man argument because this has nothing to do with what we were talking about. There's not a single park, not a single ride that Universal has that has incredible pacing, storytelling, etc.

Keep making straw mans though. Nobody is going to disagree with what you're saying, but it's an entirely different subject. Universal has awful areas like that too. Let's talk about how it would be nice if Universal would build as good as Disney's best for their rides and parks instead of stopping at the middle of the pack. A true fanboy would hold what they like to a high standard. I'll hate on WDW all day compared to Disneyland, Shanghai, or DisneySea for the way it's run, but at least the best of WDW excels while Uni refuses to do that next level. It's also on topic with this discussion because it unfortunately seems that Universal will not go to the next level with their new themepark. It's like Marvel, they do good, but it rarely has that umph of a Dark Knight or the Incredibles (now please don't change the subject to this :) it's just an example lol).

I'm honestly surprised by this reaction. You can like Universal while calling them out at the sametime. Think about it.
Dude, there's nothing remotely temporary about it. It's been there for many years. Cheap, yes. Temporary? Not at all. The straw man is all yours.

I'm not going to even bother responding to the rest of your posts, because despite the half-hearted appeals at impartiality, I can tell you feel so strongly about Disney's superiority and Universal's supposed faults that there's no convincing you otherwise. You even know that they won't "go to the next level with their new park," despite not a single inch of it existing yet. Having not seen even a single page of concept art for that matter. I know the type, and I've already spent far too much time and energy debating with them previously.

Also, while I'm not a moderator, I'd like to remind you that comparisons between park chains are not even the topic of this thread. The topic is that new park we have no concrete details of yet.
 
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David1111

Member
Dude, there's nothing remotely temporary about it. It's been there for many years. Cheap, yes. Temporary? Not at all. The straw man is all yours.

I'm not going to even bother responding to the rest of your posts, because despite the half-hearted appeals at impartiality, I can tell you feel so strongly about Disney's superiority and Universal's supposed faults that there's no convincing you otherwise. You even know that they won't "go to the next level with their new park," despite not a single inch of it existing yet. Having not seen even a single page of concept art for that matter. I know the type, and I've already spent far too much time and energy debating with them previously.

Also, while I'm not a moderator, I'd like to remind you that comparisons between park chains are not even the topic of this thread. The topic is that new park we have no concrete details of yet.
You can be impartial and acknowledge Disney's TOP rides are better than Universal's TOP. You're acting like this is a Disney vs. Universal thing in a way that it's us versus them.

The fact that you cannot come to fathom it shows your bias. Convince me otherwise. Objectively, it's just flat out how it is whether you like it or not. I love Universal, but having gone to Tokyo DisneySea and Universal Studios Japan a couple of months ago just shows an insane disparity in quality of a unified theme and the top attractions. Even though TDL is owned by the Oriental Land Company, it got me thinking that Uni's biggest weakness are these two things.
There are some really strong points though. There's a lot of rides per park that are consistent and most of the time fun. The Potter areas are gorgeous and I really appreciate how friendly the crew members are. Plus, their relentless ambition to build up the parks have brought Orlando overall to a point of record-breaking investment. I count that as a huge win for not only fans of Universal, but Disney, SeaWorld, and really any tourist spots in Florida have to keep up now to bring customers back. I merely mentioned something often overlooked and I was expecting people to want Universal to push themselves more in their weakest two areas. Why not? Comcast doesn't need fanboys defending them in the same vein that Disney doesn't. I enjoy Disney and Universal about the same for different reasons (throughout the world mind you), but Universal really has an opportunity in their new park to deliver what could be a nail in the coffin for WDW, but instead, they seem to be doing more of the same. More of the same to be at a close second especially with Disney's extravagant spending spree. Mind you, they have 4 parks already, severely underinvested, but four. Now that they're putting cash in the parks, that still leaves Universal with three great parks that forget about the 'themeparks are art' for their rides specifically.

It is actually on topic because I was relating it to the new park (based on attractions and overall theme), and based upon all of the information we have received it is highly unlikely that they will not reach the next-tier level in either TOP rides or a park theme.

Tell me one ride that Uni has that compares to Shanghai's Pirates, TRON, Mystic Manor, Tower of Terror, Haunted Mansion, Indiana Jones Adventure, Flight of Passage, Journey to the Center of The Earth, Pooh's Hunny Hunt, and the list still goes on in terms of storytelling, pacing, score, etc. Unfortunately, Universal does not reach that caliber. A ride like Mummy, Spiderman, or FJ are really good, but they don't have the movie writing feel that the others do.
Tell me one park that Uni has that has a unified theme, oh wait... it sadly doesn't exist. This isn't a Disney vs. Uni debate, they do different things and they do them well, but it's time for Universal to give Disney a run for its money for real, and not just what the bloggers online say.

Dinoland sucks ***. It was originally supposed to be temporary but has unfortunately remained. It sucks, but how in the hell does that have anything to do with what was being discussed? It doesn't get rid of the fact that the park has arguably the best simulator on Earth, and it has a consistent, mostly well-implemented theme. It doesn't matter if the park does or doesn't have Dinoland, it's in its own corner and I never step foot in it (besides for the flaws Dinosaur) because there are 4 other lands that are part of the park that are all part of the unifying theme. While you are at it bring up Figment, most of Tomorrowland, the Mexico Ride, etc. Oh but also remember to bring up Woody Woodpecker's Kidzone, and Fast and Furious, Jimmy Fallon, and the remnants of the original park's cost-cutting like (AK originally had), and Universal's bare coasters, but oh one awful part of a land means the ENTIRE park must be dismissed. That is straw man my friend. NOBODY IS SAYING CHESTER AND HESTER'S IS GOOD. Frankly, it has zero to do with the discussion of a parks' theme.

This new park is a grand opportunity for it to happen and based upon what has been leaked and even the details on Universal Studios Beijing it looks like more of the same good but not great or amazing (comparing it to the best out there).
I'm new here, so I don't know if it's just in the board's nature to throwaway logic or just the internet in general.
Sigh. Geez though, don't get so uptight over this. You're wrong, move on. You can still love Uni, I do, I just won't kiss up to certain things, like I won't with Disney's cash grabs of late but that's a totally different topic.

Now, is there any indication Universal will pull a DisneySea or have a Shanghai Pirates (Indiana Jones perhaps?) in their new park?

Yet just you watch, no matter what, Universal is perfect and can do no wrong. I am prepared to have a bunch of disgruntled former Disney fans respond to me, get numerous likes, and dismiss me as nonsensical. Seriously, what on Earth are your guys' fascination with kissing up to the place. The people doing it over on News & Rumors for Disney is nauseating, but at least they admit that Universal gets a lot of things right. You guys can't even admit an obvious fault. Uni gets a couple of things wrong, big deal, accept it. Consider talking about it to get Universal's attention that people demand more but no; they do no wrong. So why should they spend an extra billion on a park to get it done when people aren't demanding the cream of the crop?
 
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JT3000

Well-Known Member
You can be impartial and acknowledge Disney's TOP rides are better than Universal's TOP. The fact that you cannot come to fathom it shows your bias. Convince me otherwise. Objectively, it's just flat out how it is whether you like it or not.
I'm sorry, but we do not live in a world where your subjective opinions are objective fact. But I have much better things to do than try to convince you of this, and I have no doubt you'll find out the hard way elsewhere.

Also, we aren't disgruntled former Disney fans. In fact, I'm going to Disney later this month. You're being dismissed for a whole breadth of other reasons, I just can't be bothered to go through your increasingly vitriolic novels and respond point-for-point.
 
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David1111

Member
I'm sorry, but we do not live in a world where your subjective opinions are objective fact. But I have much better things to do than try to convince you of this, and I have no doubt you'll find out the hard way elsewhere.
Read this and tell me how you can continue saying what you're saying. You are missing the point entirely.
It's not subjective it's objective. La La Land is on a technical level (the means to push storytelling) outstanding. That's objective.
However, liking a film is personal taste. I don't enjoy Transformers films but some people do; those are subjective opinions. That being said, it's not objectively a well-made film, but you can subjectively say I like that film, or I dislike La La Land.

Tell me what Universal ride stacks up to the technical level (storytelling, pacing, soundtrack) with Disney's top STORYTELLING rides? You can't. You can say Spiderman is your favorite ride ever (it's in my top 5 personally), but if we are talking about storytelling, it probably has a hard time getting into the top 15. Not all rides have to do that, but it's a glaring flaw in the resort's premiere dark rides like Gringotts, Kong, and others and sorely needed to hopefully equal or pass Disney in more respects.

When I am talking about the 'TOP' you know that based on my past posts exactly what I mean. Spiderman or FJ cannot stack up to TRON, Shanghai Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Mystic Manor, Splash Mountain, Tot, RSR, Flight of Passage, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Indiana Jones Adventure, etc. in TERMS OF STORYTELLING, WRITING, PACING, THE USE OF A SOUNDTRACK, AND CINEMATIC MOMENTS. Objectively they feel more like well-written and staged art. What's considered Universal's best rides don't crack the list. SDMT even does storytelling better than Universal's best rides. That's different than how much you PERSONALLY ENJOY THEM.

As a successful writer in LA, I understand that the bottom line comes down to the finances, but art needs to be injected too. Yet, behind the spectacle of modern E-tickets, Universal needs to step up its game in the storytelling arena. That hurts no one. I'm still perplexed that you want it to remain this way. Universal has stepped up in terms of their lands' theming, but their rides still lack the art form that Disney introduced to the world which is a problem for their more serious dark rides. It's not that they're bad it's just that they're not trying to be anything other than good in terms of storytelling.

Next time you're at Universal, ask yourself why the Transformers building is onstage like that. Blame it on the Studios/Random IP theme all you want, but it's bad show. Part of it not having a true unifying theme, but even the ride itself does not try storytelling on for size.

You also can objectively say Universal has no overarching theme in their parks. There is none. It's just a bunch of IPs thrown together like HWS. Sure, there was a studio aspect at one time but it still was never done well in that sense. At least with Animal Kingdom Pandora was build to fit very well within the mission statement and the park's theme, so the whole IP debate that people do is nonsense. It has and always will be about theme (not in terms of detail but mission statements my friends) in terms of the park as a whole. You can objectively state that Tokyo DisneySea has the best 'overall theme' ever, but it's subjective as to whether you like DisneySea or Universal or hell even Walt Disney Studios (at least WDS has epic storytelling in Tot).

So why can't you hold Universal to a high standard and start petitioning them to make a ride with theming that enters that next-level, and hope that the new park has a consistent theme?

Good like trying to dismiss this.
 
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David1111

Member
Also, we aren't disgruntled former Disney fans. In fact, I'm going to Disney later this month. You're being dismissed for a whole breadth of other reasons, I just can't be bothered to go through your increasingly vitriolic novels and respond point-for-point.
You're kidding me, right? Weren't you the one that entirely dismissed my very thought out, logical points? Instead of responding and discussing the merits of them, or tell why you disagreed with them you just tossed it out to the curve, created a strawman argument, and ended up threatening me with a moderator.

Great way to greet a new forum member.

And by the way, the way you're kissing up to one of the largest conglomerates on Earth is embarrassing. Challenge them to reach the next level. Ironically I've done work for them, but if it weren't for people pushing companies to get creative, Hollywood, for instance, would be akin to Bollywood. We shouldn't set our standards for theme parks that low.

And by the way, it is on topic. I won't repeat myself again but I was criticizing the new Universal Park for repeating the same flawed tropes as Universal's parks. Instead of casting them to the shadows and thundering over Disney, Universal almost wants itself to not have that magical storytelling that Disney every so often gets right. One can hope.
 
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JT3000

Well-Known Member
You're kidding me, right? Weren't you the one that entirely dismissed my very thought out, logical points? Instead of responding and discussing the merits of them, or tell why you disagreed with them you just tossed it out to the curve, created a strawman argument, and ended up threatening me with a moderator.

Great way to greet a new forum member.
I've dismissed your posts because I've seen this "My opinions are factual!" fanboy rhetoric too many times to care. This isn't my first rodeo, I know someone who can't be reasoned with when I see them. So why bother? The fact that you're putting so much passion into proving how right you are only further proves my suspicion.

And I never said anything to a moderator. I don't even know who the moderators are here. I merely trying getting this thread you've successfully derailed back on track. You won't win points with anyone by playing the victim card.

And by the way, the way you're kissing up to one of the largest conglomerates on Earth is embarrassing.
I do love irony.

And by the way, it is on topic. I won't repeat myself again but I was criticizing the new Universal Park for repeating the same flawed tropes as Universal's parks. Instead of casting them to the shadows and thundering over Disney, Universal almost wants itself to not have that magical storytelling that Disney every so often gets right. One can hope.
You're criticizing a park that doesn't exist and you know nothing about. Congratulations?
 

David1111

Member
I've dismissed your posts because I've seen this "My opinions are factual!" fanboy rhetoric too many times to care. This isn't my first rodeo, I know someone who can't be reasoned with when I see them. So why bother? The fact that you're putting so much passion into proving how right you are only further proves my suspicion.

And I never said anything to a moderator. I don't even know who the moderators are here. I merely trying getting this thread you've successfully derailed back on track. You won't win points with anyone by playing the victim card.



I do love irony.



You're criticizing a park that doesn't exist and you know nothing about. Congratulations?
Just stop.
These are not MY OPINIONS. Stop treating it like that; you are the problem. Show me a single example of a Universal ride using these means. There is tangible evidence to support what I am saying just like you can study cinematography, film editing, writing, and understand what fundamentally makes it good you can see if it was done properly in execution. Storytelling in themed rides is able to be seen, studied, documented, and analyzed. Furthermore, there is tangible evidence in the fact that Universal has also not once had an all-encompassing theme in the vein of Disney's best parks. You literally don't have an argument but keep telling yourself that I'm the fanboy and that I am the stubborn one. You're just wrong; I'm not going to tell you "oh you're right" because that's not how facts work. In an age where you don't even know what is true anymore, it saddens me to see that spread to freakin' theme parks. You don't see it now, but I challenge you to compare some of the rides I mentioned and then come back and actually bring in evidence instead of saying "it doesn't matter what I say because you won't believe it." Prove me wrong with facts as I have done with you.

The reason why I am so engaged in this is I cannot believe how ridiculous theme park fandom is, and how literally you cannot even imagine opening up to the idea that "Hey, Universal needs to up their storytelling game for their rides like they already have for their lands." What gives?
I literally pass by USH 5 days a week and see myself inside the turnstiles once or twice a year. I am a Universal fan, but I am not going to give extreme detail of my perspective of Disney because that is absolutely unnecessary. You can literally like something and criticize it. People on News and Rumors here do that constantly, and I happen to agree with most of it. Universal is NO DIFFERENT. Should we assume that all people legitimately criticizing Disney are Universal Fanboys? Absolutely not.

How do you not see that if Universal ups their game, Disney could actually be its equal? That hurts Disney. There is zero irony.

And we DO know about the park. Good luck tying together Nintendo, Fantastic Beasts, and Dreamworks smhh. Not only that, but there's little to no reason to assume they'd magically start making e-ticket rides with epic storytelling, and if they do, then that would be a good thing would it not? My point stands yet even stronger with that scenario.

I'm excited about the new park and development. I was just hoping it would have extremely high standards which you don't seem to be fond of.
 
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MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Great way to greet a new forum member.
It is when you say crazy stuff like this...

Dude that's just one cheap ('temporary' although semi-permanent) area.
Dinoland was a purposefully-built permanent area of DAK (unlike, say, Camp MickeyMinnie).

Also...

1. Stop expressing opinion as fact.
2. Stop using all caps.
3. Stop calling people "dude."
4. Stop thinking huge walls of text equals cogent arguments.
5. Stop using emotional arguments such as we're supposed to be nice to new people. No. We're not. Not when they act like you do.
 

David1111

Member
It is when you say crazy stuff like this...



Dinoland was a purposefully-built permanent area of DAK (unlike, say, Camp MickeyMinnie).

Also...

1. Stop expressing opinion as fact.
2. Stop using all caps.
3. Stop calling people "dude."
4. Stop thinking huge walls of text equals cogent arguments.
5. Stop using emotional arguments such as we're supposed to be nice to new people. No. We're not. Not when they act like you do.
Tell me one ride that Uni has that uses storytelling elements like The Haunted Mansion, Tower of Terror, or Shanghai's Pirates. A ride's theming is separate than this. Good luck trying, but I'd like to see what you end up with. Tell me one park that has a unified theme.

Dinoland is no different than A Bug's Land or Woody Woodpecker's Kidzone. Not very good, but just filler. I'm not saying Dinoland is good, it sucks, but it just has nothing to do with the discussion, and it WAS supposed to be replaced long ago.

Look at the tension buildup of Tot & JTTCOTE, admire the cinematic shots of Indiana Jones & Shanghai's Pirates, look at their pacing. What those rides include are incredible storyboarding and writing. Listen to Mystic Manor and the Haunted Mansion's score. Most of Disney's rides are not that way but the best typically include them. Seriously, how can you say this is subjective? Universal has really good rides, but they still lack the best of storytelling elements. That's not subjective at all.

These two flaws are Universal's problems. Disney has tons too; putting TRON next to an indoor rollercoaster, putting GOTG in FW, removing GMR at a park low on rides, but they are different than what we're talking about here. Universal has a different set of problems and nobody wants to discuss them for fear as being cast out as a pixie duster.

@Disneyhead'71 If anyone you're the biggest Uni duster on these boards oml. You can call out Disney AND Universal. Prove my statements above wrong. Give facts.

But of course, the response will just include fallacies attacking my character, dismissing facts as 'mere opinions', and claiming 'it's a waste of time,' and the list goes on and on. I'm sure some of you are so into this ideology that you would probably ignore me. Stop attacking literally everything about me except what unpopular proposition I have brought up. Counter the argument with facts. This is not even a discussion, so I would like you guys to start one. I brought it up without being combative at all and was cast off as ridiculous and people refused to address the issue I have raised.

This has literally nothing to do with Disney. I'd just like to see Universal up their attraction storytelling game, and start having overarching park themes. You can say that hey you don't like that, but that's completely different still.

Think critically, folks. This theme park echo chamber for both Disney & Uni is ridiculous.
 
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Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
I would argue that Spider-Man has the proper cinematic pacing that we’re discussing here. Also Kong and a few others.

Introduction - three act structure with the third act being the most exciting part/climax - conclusion.

However, more often Universal does not follow this structure or have any semblance of pacing, and you go full throttle at the beginning of the ride and they never let off the gas until the end. Examples: Forbidden Journey, Gringotts, Transformers, The Simpsons Ride... and well, most of them.

In Forbidden Journey, the climax of the ride (being saved from the dementors and “it’s caving in!!”) is not any more intense or interesting than the events of the beginning of the ride, where you are immediately chased and attacked by a dragon. In Spider-Man, you begin by creeping around corners slowly and end with being whipped through the air.

Unlike, say, a basic roller coaster, cinematic and heavily themed rides should have cinematic pacing, or at the very least, not be on full blast the entire time.
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
Seeing Haunted Mansion cited as an example of great storytelling made my day. A ride that wasn't even supposed to have much of a story originally, and the conspicuous storytelling that was later shoehorned in is now considered by most to be the worst parts of the entire attraction! :facepalm:

But this is coming from the same person who thinks TRON even has storytelling! A roller coaster through darkness and neon special effects. Next we'll hear about how even SeaWorld's coasters have masterful storytelling while Universal's rides just suxxorz.
 
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Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Haunted Mansion doesn't have a story, but it is one of the best examples of great cinematic attraction pacing (although the modern playful queue additions ruin this a little). A first time visitor begins seeing this foreboding structure and has no clue what to expect inside. Will it be scary? Silly? The introduction hints at both, but gives you little information, and leaves you feeling more apprehensive. You board the doom buggy, and start out seeing very little. For more than the first 1/3rd of the ride, you don't actually see a ghostly apparition, only visual and audible evidence of ghosts, while the activity you are seeing increases as you go. The action pauses for a moment for the seance. You are then bombarded with what you've been anticipating, actual visible ghosts, presented on a massive scale in what is still one of the most impressive scenes in any theme park. The action continues to rise until the climax of being plopped right in the middle of a rowdy ghost graveyard party. It isn't until here where it is confirmed that the spooks are playful. You then get a proper goodbye conclusion and epilogue.

People get it wrong when they insist theme park attractions need a dictated story, they totally don't, but solid pacing makes a huge difference in the experience.

I'm also not saying that all attractions should follow a narrative structure either. Flight of Passage doesn't follow one (and it certainly has no story, only background information on what you're doing) but the flight experience has solid pacing by starting out with relatively "mundane" flight movements and visuals. The visuals gradually get more grandiose and the flight maneuvers increase in intensity, until you reach the first "peak". After this moment, everything pauses for a moment for a breather (this is honestly my favorite part of the ride because it's beautiful and I can't think of any other ride that has a moment of reflection like this). You then begin the second half of the flight, with the duration featuring the most impressive and beautiful visuals and intense flight maneuvers.
 

David1111

Member
I would argue that Spider-Man has the proper cinematic pacing that we’re discussing here. Also Kong and a few others.

Introduction - three act structure with the third act being the most exciting part/climax - conclusion.

However, more often Universal does not follow this structure or have any semblance of pacing, and you go full throttle at the beginning of the ride and they never let off the gas until the end. Examples: Forbidden Journey, Gringotts, Transformers, The Simpsons Ride... and well, most of them.

In Forbidden Journey, the climax of the ride (being saved from the dementors and “it’s caving in!!”) is not any more intense or interesting than the events of the beginning of the ride, where you are immediately chased and attacked by a dragon. In Spider-Man, you begin by creeping around corners slowly and end with being whipped through the air.

Unlike, say, a basic roller coaster, cinematic and heavily themed rides should have cinematic pacing, or at the very least, not be on full blast the entire time.
This is a reply I was looking for. One that actually discusses and doesn't just cast the concept off as crazy. Thank you.

Seeing Haunted Mansion cited as an example of great storytelling made my day. A ride that wasn't even supposed to have much of a story originally, and the conspicuous storytelling that was later shoehorned in is now considered by most to be the worst parts of the entire attraction! :facepalm:

But this is coming from the same person who thinks TRON even has storytelling! A roller coaster through darkness and neon special effects. Next we'll hear about how even SeaWorld's coasters have masterful storytelling while Universal's rides just suxxorz.
I wasn't talking about the mediocre story in HM, but how it's framed on a technical level. In a themepark, that is a way of storytelling. It's perfectly paced, bringing in a meticulously crafted 'world' to an audience that builds intrigue and suspicion as each scene unfolds. You legitimately don't know what scene comes next, but every one delivers something unique and brings you along nicely. Every scene is meticulously crafted from the attic (original) to the party. Disney has regressed on a lot of things but that is an entirely separate topic. I think you're viewing this from the wrong angle. Sometimes it's a good idea to watch things differently. Whether it's watching a movie for it's technical details, or a theme park ride. How the shot is frames; how a ride's scene is. What is going on visually and underneath. A skilled painter can tell you a million things about a painting that none of us here could catch!

TRON does not have 'storytelling per say,' but reading my post, I was including everything from pacing to the soundtrack and how that let's the story (in this case a simple one) unfold. TRON has a very good score that feels like it's made for the ride (more work required than just copy and paste). The ride is very balanced and builds tension. Comparing a dark ride like that to a coaster is apples to oranges. A better comparison is the Rip Ride Rocket to TRON, not in theme, but the storytelling. A hybrid dark ride/coaster Everest could be compared to Mummy, arguably the best Universal ride to use cinematic elements. I'm not saying Universal doesn't have it at all, but for however good FJ is, it's only mostly random scenes stringed together like the terrible Ariel ride, without a painterly eye for unfolding a story before your eyes. Not talking about a backstory (although that can be used), but the story you are apart of is the main part, and it requires good writing/pacing to maximize it.

I came on too strong, and I apologize for that, but I was bringing legitimate discussion to the table and was cast off as not. The whole reason I brought this up was that I was concerned for the new park not worrying about it as much as they should, but I hope they do.
Haunted Mansion doesn't have a story, but it is one of the best examples of great cinematic attraction pacing (although the modern playful queue additions ruin this a little). A first time visitor begins seeing this foreboding structure and has no clue what to expect inside. Will it be scary? Silly? The introduction hints at both, but gives you little information, and leaves you feeling more apprehensive. You board the doom buggy, and start out seeing very little. For more than the first 1/3rd of the ride, you don't actually see a ghostly apparition, only visual and audible evidence of ghosts, while the activity you are seeing increases as you go. The action pauses for a moment for the seance. You are then bombarded with what you've been anticipating, actual visible ghosts, presented on a massive scale in what is still one of the most impressive scenes in any theme park. The action continues to rise until the climax of being plopped right in the middle of a rowdy ghost graveyard party. It isn't until here where it is confirmed that the spooks are playful. You then get a proper goodbye conclusion and epilogue.

People get it wrong when they insist theme park attractions need a dictated story, they totally don't, but solid pacing makes a huge difference in the experience.

I'm also not saying that all attractions should follow a narrative structure either. Flight of Passage doesn't follow one (and it certainly has no story, only background information on what you're doing) but the flight experience has solid pacing by starting out with relatively "mundane" flight movements and visuals. The visuals gradually get more grandiose and the flight maneuvers increase in intensity, until you reach the first "peak". After this moment, everything pauses for a moment for a breather (this is honestly my favorite part of the ride because it's beautiful and I can't think of any other ride that has a moment of reflection like this). You then begin the second half of the flight, with the duration featuring the most impressive and beautiful visuals and intense flight maneuvers.
Agreed with all of what you wrote. To comment on the last bit that's a good point. Nobody cares about story on Soarin' or Popeye's because it doesn't really need one. My point was storytelling elements like pacing (and others) help propel a ride further. FoP does a REALLY good job at pacing and has strong direction; it really may be the best example of what proper storyboarding can do for simulators. Compare it to the hodgepodge of Star Tours... But like you said, not all rides need it. Gringotts is probably Uni's best example of a ride that could have been mind-blowing was dogged down because of this problem. Screens aren't even the problem, it just has storytelling issues. I enjoy the ride because it's an E-ticket like I do Test Track, but they have some issues. I was mainly pointing out the best instances of them, and said that Uni doesn't have them as much at the top and would benefit from focusing on that aspect more.
 
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