Universal's Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens Summer 2025

lebeau

Well-Known Member
My point was that if Dis wanted to provide the same level of service they could. Double the fleet and it would be done. Massive or not is not a pass to not provide the same level of service. It only takes viewing the guest as more valuable.

And they run a fleet of boats to another three hotels the same way

Exactly this.

I hear the argument that Disney has a more complicated transportation problem all the time. Acknowledged. Doesn't change the fact that their solution is woefully inadequate. If Universal needs 10 buses and they are running 12 and Disney needs 350 but are only running 325, one is still exceeding the need while the other is falling short.

For what they charge for the on property hotels, Disney can buy and operate more buses.
 

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
Exactly this.

I hear the argument that Disney has a more complicated transportation problem all the time. Acknowledged. Doesn't change the fact that their solution is woefully inadequate. If Universal needs 10 buses and they are running 12 and Disney needs 350 but are only running 325, one is still exceeding the need while the other is falling short.

For what they charge for the on property hotels, Disney can buy and operate more buses.

Disney has bought more buses a few years ago, spending about $20M for 50 of them. They've been adding more dedicated bus lanes all over the place. They've been adding bus-only entrances to the parks. They've been replacing crossroads that have traffic lights with fly-overs. They've added monitors to bus stops and your MDE app to track your bus. They're building the Skyliner which will divert all those buses to other resorts/parks. They built the new resort bus terminal next to MK gate so you can skip the TTC. They built a new bus terminal for DHS. They built a new bus terminal for Disney Springs.
 
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s8film40

Well-Known Member
The funny thing is WDW started with a blank slate and all the land to plan and design whatever they wanted however they wanted. Their transportation problems are their own design they have no one to blame other than themselves. If anyone should “get a pass” it’s Universal who has to come up with a solution within the confines of their situation much of which they have little control over.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Disney has bought more buses a few years ago, spending about $20M for 50 of them. They've been adding more dedicated bus lanes all over the place. They've been adding bus-only entrances to the parks. They've been replacing crossroads with traffic lights with fly-overs. They've added monitors to bus stops and your MDE app to track your bus. They're building the Skyliner which will divert all those buses to other resorts/parks. They built the new resort bus terminal next to MK gate so you can skip the TTC. They built a new bus terminal for DHS. They built a new bus terminal for Disney Springs.
Yeah but forget all that, Universal runs 12 buses (that only have to travel half a mile) instead of 10!!!
 

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
The funny thing is WDW started with a blank slate and all the land to plan and design whatever they wanted however they wanted. Their transportation problems are their own design they have no one to blame other than themselves. If anyone should “get a pass” it’s Universal who has to come up with a solution within the confines of their situation much of which they have little control over.

Not really. The land they have is a patchwork of land OK to build on and land that is horribly awful to build on. They naturally built on the land OK to build on first. The monorail was supposed to solve all transportation problems, but they then found it has its own limitations. That's when buses became widely used.

But then something horrible happened: WDW became too popular and the ever increasing attendance kept outpacing bus capacity. That's why, in my post above, WDW recently bought more buses and is doing everything they can with the roads and infrastructure to make the buses work. And that's including taking some of their load off their hands with the Skyliner.

Oh, and another setback for buses: The ever increasing use of ECVs. Buses were just not made for them. And even the new ones that are, can't deal with them quickly and efficiently.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Not really. The land they have is a patchwork of land OK to build on and land that is horribly awful to build on. They naturally built on the land OK to build on first. The monorail was supposed to solve all transportation problems, but they then found it has its own limitations. That's when buses became widely used.

But then something horrible happened: WDW became too popular and the ever increasing attendance kept outpacing bus capacity. That's why, in my post above, WDW recently bought more buses and is doing everything they can with the roads and infrastructure to make the buses work. And that's including taking some of their load off their hands with the Skyliner.

Oh, and another setback for buses: The ever increasing use of ECVs. Buses were just not made for them. And even the new ones that are, can't deal with them quickly and efficiently.
The ECVs are what causes the majority of bus delays. I think every 20 minutes for arrivals is reasonable considering the size and scope of the place and in general they typically are close to that. They should perhaps consider special buses dedicated strictly to ECVs, perhaps?

I still don't get why we're comparing the current bus situation when WDW's is massive and complex and UOR's is ridiculously small and simple in comparison.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Not really. The land they have is a patchwork of land OK to build on and land that is horribly awful to build on. They naturally built on the land OK to build on first. The monorail was supposed to solve all transportation problems, but they then found it has its own limitations. That's when buses became widely used.

But then something horrible happened: WDW became too popular and the ever increasing attendance kept outpacing bus capacity. That's why, in my post above, WDW recently bought more buses and is doing everything they can with the roads and infrastructure to make the buses work. And that's including taking some of their load off their hands with the Skyliner.

Oh, and another setback for buses: The ever increasing use of ECVs. Buses were just not made for them. And even the new ones that are, can't deal with them quickly and efficiently.
Not really, they could’ve easily built a more contained and contiguous resort, they chose to spread things out. The original plans for Epcot were for it to be built across from the MK. There’s also still plenty of land available for development in the MK area. Even the original plans for the original EPCOT vision for the property had everything in a nice line and one monorail route connecting everything.
 

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
Not really, they could’ve easily built a more contained and contiguous resort, they chose to spread things out. The original plans for Epcot were for it to be built across from the MK. There’s also still plenty of land available for development in the MK area. Even the original plans for the original EPCOT vision for the property had everything in a nice line and one monorail route connecting everything.

No, not really...

 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Let's not gloss over the fact that, as is, Universal's transportation system does not have to cover anywhere even close to the amount of people that Disney does, let alone travel distance. It's real easy to have consistent buses to Cabana Bay when its right down the block.
Yeah but forget all that, Universal runs 12 buses (that only have to travel half a mile) instead of 10!!!
You were the one that tossed Uni's fleet into the mix.....

UoR runs many more than a dozen busses.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Can't they build an underground pipe connecting the two resorts?

358127
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
You were the one that tossed Uni's fleet into the mix.....

UoR runs many more than a dozen busses.
I was originally responding to the knee-jerk "but Disney!" responses generated because someone voiced concerns about potential transportation issues with the new Uni property, which was then met with "why can't Disney's massive and complex bus system work as well as Universal's very simple one?" Why is it so much more difficult to set up a data network for a college campus compared to my home's wifi router?

Why can't we discuss Universal without you guys tripping over yourselves to insert a slam at Disney into every discussion?

How many (on property) buses does UoR operate? I'd be surprised if it was more than three each for Cabana, Aventura, Saphire, and Volcano.
 
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Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
Not really, they could’ve easily built a more contained and contiguous resort, they chose to spread things out. The original plans for Epcot were for it to be built across from the MK. There’s also still plenty of land available for development in the MK area. Even the original plans for the original EPCOT vision for the property had everything in a nice line and one monorail route connecting everything.
Actually the original World Showcase plans called for it to be where the MK parking is. An entire new complex, called The Future World Theme Center was going to be built well south of there which would serve as the entrance to the entire resort more or less. A combination of monorails and people movers would connect World Showcase, the housing for WS "ambassadors", the Theme Center <which consisted of 3 very large buildings> and the Magic Kingdom. The idea was spreading out from the Theme Center would be "pods" of which World Showcase would be the first. As there were more companies than countries interested, the Theme Center and World Showcase became combined to (after a few revisions) become the Epcot Center that opened in 1982.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Disney has bought more buses a few years ago, spending about $20M for 50 of them. They've been adding more dedicated bus lanes all over the place. They've been adding bus-only entrances to the parks. They've been replacing crossroads that have traffic lights with fly-overs. They've added monitors to bus stops and your MDE app to track your bus. They're building the Skyliner which will divert all those buses to other resorts/parks. They built the new resort bus terminal next to MK gate so you can skip the TTC. They built a new bus terminal for DHS. They built a new bus terminal for Disney Springs.

That's good to hear. We got fed up with Disney following out last trip in 2014. Poor transportation was a big part of that decision. We reached our breaking point and five years later have no desire to go back.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Yeah but forget all that, Universal runs 12 buses (that only have to travel half a mile) instead of 10!!!

End of the day, all I care about is the experience. Several Disney trips in a row involved increasingly long waits for increasingly full buses. The EVC situation just kept getting worse and more and more of our vacation was spent either waiting for buses or standing in them. I never sat because there was always someone who needed a seat more than I did and the buses were routinely packed beyond what I considered to be safe much less comfortable. It was unpleasant to say the least.

In the last several years, we have stayed at Cabana Bay, Royal Pacific and Portofino Bay. It's been a completely different experience. Getting to and from the resorts is easy and relaxing. I have never waited more than 10 minutes for a bus at Universal and frequently there was one waiting for us when we got there. At Cabana Bay, we never saw the bus stop without a bus. Often times there were two or three lined up waiting for guests.
 

BubbaQuest

Well-Known Member
Universal runs a simple shuttle service, Disney runs a city sized mass transit network.

Not making excuses, they just aren't comparable. It's asinine to think they are.

But the Disney transportation issue isn't limited to Disney World. I've had the same problems at the DL Toy Story parking lot. All that bus has to do is drive 2 blocks, turn around, and drive back. Many many times I've had to wait for a bus to arrive. Even worse is the number of times I've had to wait only to arrive at the plaza to see 3 busses sitting there doing nothing.

I'm almost willing to overlook that, but the fact they still don't dual load those busses just baffles me.
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
But then something horrible happened: WDW became too popular and the ever increasing attendance kept outpacing bus capacity. That's why, in my post above, WDW recently bought more buses and is doing everything they can with the roads and infrastructure to make the buses work. And that's including taking some of their load off their hands with the Skyliner.

Yes but the Skyliner is at least 10 years too late. I think the tourism downturn after 9/11 didn't help, but they really should have thought more about bus replacement sooner. Once they added all the value resorts it should have been evident that buses won't be able to match demand and another solution should have been considered back then.
 

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