Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens 2025


Well-Known Member
I don’t really see the bottom lines of Disney suffering too much. USF may have justified issues after Epic opens, but overall, I primarily expect market expansion. I would expect the biggest problems post-Epic to be with Hollywood Studios, which definitely makes sense why they would (and should) expedite plans.
What's your reasoning behind DHS being the biggest issue for WDW? Not saying DHS doesn't need expansions or maintenance fixes... but it's the 2nd most popular park at the resort.

DAK is the one that will need help.


Well-Known Member
I am not really sure what you are getting at. This seems to be opening with a pretty good set of attractions.
The last time WDW opened this number of attractions at the same time was 1982.

Both DHS and DAK were highly criticized for their lack of attractions when they first opened.

Let’s be real - the last time Orlando saw this kind of theme park expansion was when Islands of Adventure opened in 1999.


Well-Known Member
What's your reasoning behind DHS being the biggest issue for WDW? Not saying DHS doesn't need expansions or maintenance fixes... but it's the 2nd most popular park at the resort.

DAK is the one that will need help.
Anecdotally, a lot of the people who I know who don’t really care about theme parks (and aren’t families) will visit IoA or get a Universal park hopper for a day or two, and add on a day at Hollywood Studios because it’s the hip, cool park.

If there’s a Venn diagram of type of guest visiting, I would expect the biggest overlap of Disney parks and Universal to be Hollywood Studios.

Universal is seen as “cool” and Hollywood is seen as “cool.”

People disregard Animal Kingdom already as a zoo. The Pandora hype train has died off (Epic will open almost a decade after Pandora). So I don’t have the data, but anecdotally, the people who visit Animal Kingdom are more loyal to the brand/doing a whole Disney trip. Once again, I don’t have the data, but I would be surprised if Animal Kingdom didn’t attract the least amount of 1-off 1-day guests (the kind that visit Universal the most).

Epic will also try to target the Epcot audience, but there’s too much they need to change in terms of food quality and night-entertainment for me to see that as a real threat until it comes to fruition (they also can’t replicate the drinking-around-the-world printing press either).

DHS also being the second highest also means it has the most room to fall.

DAK already needs help (and that will continue until it actually gets that help), but I don’t think Epic will necessarily worsen that need dramatically, whereas DHS (which also needs help) will likely have its needs worsened by Epic.

I’m not fully certain, but that would be my guess, though I could be convinced otherwise.
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Well-Known Member
What's your reasoning behind DHS being the biggest issue for WDW? Not saying DHS doesn't need expansions or maintenance fixes... but it's the 2nd most popular park at the resort.

DAK is the one that will need help.

I suppose you could argue that DHS is the Disney park closest to Universal's offerings, so if that's what you're looking for you might prefer going to the new Epic Universe over going back to DHS to see things you've already seen -- whereas the people who love parks like DAK and EPCOT are probably less enthused about Epic Universe's offerings (especially attraction lineup) in general.

I still think the majority (and probably vast majority) of Disney and Universal guests are only going to one resort or the other on a trip, though.


Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say that. Just nothing on this scale. it is more of they have to start now in order to complete the timeline and rightfully so, it gets the most attention. It begins with this full general hype reveal confirming the lands.

The Parade, night show and Dreamworks area of studios will be marketing soon. They also don't want to clash too much with all the announcements and reveals for HHN that will be here before you know it.

I guess that’s what I mean. Sometime in the Fall (after HHN launched in August) would have made slightly more marketing sense.

I think the holiday season could be pretty soft for them this year as it is, which is fine, it’s a transient issue.


Well-Known Member
If you are going to check out EPIC Universe, and Universal gives you discounted second and third days at their other two parks and a very discounted day at Volcano Bay....

You better believe that many will keep their onsite stays at hotels on Universal property, even if they are the type to keep a day to go check out MK at full price.

Hotel stays are where the biggest ROI is at and why this property is opening with three of them in addition to the hotel expanding Universal has done the last decade.


Well-Known Member
I guess that’s what I mean. Sometime in the Fall (after HHN launched in August) would have made slightly more marketing sense.

I think the holiday season could be pretty soft for them this year as it is, which is fine, it’s a transient issue.

People start booking such big Orlando Vacation plans from far away more than a year in advance. It made sense to start spreading it now.


Well-Known Member
It does need contextualization that Avatar was announced at the start of the partnership and nothing really had been done or known to Imagineering. It was an executive level partnership announcement. Anything announced for this D23 (for real, not blue sky fodder) should be at least 18-24 months further along and also less prone to strong partner oversight slowing it down… for better and worse!

The easier Uni analogy for Avatar is Super Nintendo World. Which frankly was announced 10 years in advance of Epic Universe and actually truly announced for Florida 9 years in advance. Not a criticism of either really, but WDW really could and should be constructing projects within 18 of today… if they want to of course. Projects that probably are going to align with Luigi’s mansion or the Zelda/Pokémon projects.

My point with that photo op is it was Disney's real response to Wizarding World after they realized their previously intended attempt at the potter-swatter wasn't going to cut it and then they didn't actually open anything until almost seven years later.

Too little, too late.*

The Universal-Nintendo comparison isn't accurate because it did not take them 10 years to open something as your post implies. They just didn't start with Orlando and they've always been clear about the major marketing moments promoting the current thing (Japan, Hollowood and now Orlando).

They did say it was coming to all three but it's not like they strung people along about the timeline on that and as everyone likes to say for Disney with the Epcot spine " but COVID happened! 😱 ", right?

Also, that Avatar photo op wasn't just about a partnership for the parks. It was literally depicting a ground breaking which of course, was a flat out lie because they put those shovels away and then continued to do Legend of the Lion King shows back there for years after clearing away the ferns and dirt they stuck there to snap that pic.

Modern Disney has a well documented record of selling the public on trips today with promises of what's to come years down the road, some day and I don't know how but the snake oil has worked.

I feel like if we're lucky, that'll be how they respond, here. At least it'll be a step in the right direction from today where they don't even do us the courtesy of lying about plans to build something new when they show us the pretty artwork.

Not saying all this to toot Universal's horn for them but really, to point out how little Disney has been actually trying.

Is there any point at which Disney's paying guests stop making excuses for them and start expecting better from them?

*as awesome as one of those attractions is and as great as the place-making it really just wasn't nearly enough. Even today's proposed changes to AK are about replacements - not actual needed expansion.
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Premium Member
My son is 8 and 5-8 was fun for height requirements hitting bigger and bigger things and now he is tall enough for any coaster or ride height requirement out there. Have a blast! (side note, my dad used to he he bled blue and white, WE ARE)
April will be our first WDW trip with our son. He's absolutely obsessed with animals so AK will be the highlight. He's tall enough for most everything WDW has to offer, but there could be a fear factor of some things. A couple more years and Universal will be a trip on its own and I can't wait.

Penn State! :)
Just commenting to say that this was the last place I would've expected a We Are! chant.. :D

Thank You!


You're Welcome!


Well-Known Member

But those who say that it's OK if it has two disjointed settings should also give a pass to other parks when they also have disjointed settings in one 'themed land.'

Adventureland should make the head spin of anyone paying attention if they're worried about things being disjointed and I'll never forgive them if they ever screw that land up!*

*unless we're talking about getting rid of Flying carpets. I'll call in sick for that protest.


Park nostalgist
Premium Member
I don’t think they care as much as we think they do. Pretty sure they knew what was coming and what EU was going to look like. Disney will probably announce something for WDW this year at the Expo just enough to satisfy those who think WDW needs something new because of EU.

Disney doesn't care. Period. Under Iger, they truly believe they are invincible in Orlando. If they cared, they would have things already under construction for opening in mid-2025 to early 2026 as a counter.


President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
There was an order to it. But don't take my word for it, how about from the Imagineers? From 'The Imagineering Field Guide to the Magic Kingdom':

View attachment 765925
This is getting off topic, but that is PR tripe. It only works if you keep looking left as you walk down Frontierland and don't look inside past any of the facades as you ignore that a Mississippi Riverboat is constantly with you breaking any sort of geographical or chronological progression for anyone who knows history or geography. "Several different design motifs" is code for "an amalgam of loosely related stuff." Made worse by the addition of Splash.

But, we're getting off topic.

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Looks good! It's not going to sway our Orlando vacation plans (Disney will always come first) but I'm excited to check out something actually new in town next year.

I feel similar, I think WDW will always be our primary reason for visiting Florida, however, it wasn’t many years ago we’d spend all 6 park days of our FL trip at WDW (2 days each at MK and EP), our last trip we spent 4 days at WDW and 2 at Uni, I expect our next trip will be 4/2 again with USF/IOA sharing a day and Epic getting its own day… but HS is at serious risk of being dropped which would make it 3 days at WDW and either 3 at Uni, or 2 at Uni and 1 at Seaworld.

I can’t imagine a FL trip where we don’t spend a day at MK, EP, and AK but the “screen“ park that we used to have no interest in has now cut into our vacation more than I ever dreamed it could, and Seaworld is now on our radar.


Well-Known Member
Seems like 90% IP and most of it IP I could give or take. The Mario Movie was such a heartless fan service-y cash grab that finally made Mario shirts as common as Marvel shirts that the appeal of Nintendoland sank in my own esteem.

But I'll definitely go one day!

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