• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

Unites States National Debt - How Much And What For

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
As I write this post, our national debt stands at roughly $27 trillion dollars. A multitude of current needs and proposals have the potential to significantly impact that debt load.

Covid, economic recovery efforts, outstanding student loans, mortgage forbearances, entitlement programs, even war - just to name a few.

I anticipate that over the next several years our national debt will continue to balloon. Let's discuss why, how much, and how if possible to eventually bring it down.

 

aw14

Well-Known Member

kong1802

Well-Known Member
It was only a matter of time until attention was brought back to the debt........ I kid.

What is interesting is that everyone just adds to it. Is there even a belief that we can bring it down? Does the electorate even really care?

The below table shows that its both parties that add to the debt:

1605797255409.png


As you point out, there is a variety of events that can spur on the spending. W obviously had the war on terror. Obama had the great recession. Reagan believed in supply side economics (just didn't realize the math would get him in the end). FDR had the depression and also war. Trump had corona.

Will either party really do anything about the debt? It seems to be all lip service and a cover for other political reasons.

The question really becomes why should we care about the debt.
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It was only a matter of time until attention was brought back to the debt........ I kid.

What is interesting is that everyone just adds to it. Is there even a belief that we can bring it down? Does the electorate even really care?

The below table shows that its both parties that add to the debt:

View attachment 514154

As you point out, there is a variety of events that can spur on the spending. W obviously had the war on terror. Obama had the great recession. Reagan believed in supply side economics (just didn't realize the math would get him in the end). FDR had the depression and also war. Trump had corona.

Will either party really do anything about the debt? It seems to be all lip service and a cover for other political reasons.

The question really becomes why should we care about the debt.

Not attacking the points you've made but perhaps this thread can be more forward-looking rather than a debate about the past. And there are other threads available to discuss the political aspects.

Otherwise it's bound to consist mostly of "whatabouts".
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
Not attacking the points you've made but perhaps this thread can be more forward-looking rather than a debate about the past.

Otherwise it's bound to consist mostly of "whatabouts".

That's my point. How do we change the narrative so to speak so that people actually care, not just politically care, if that makes any sense?

We've heard about the national debt, people run on the premise to bring it down, but it never happens. There's a disconnect somewhere. How do we fix that?
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That's my point. How do we change the narrative so to speak so that people actually care, not just politically care, if that makes any sense?

We've heard about the national debt, people run on the premise to bring it down, but it never happens. There's a disconnect somewhere. How do we fix that?

How do we change the narrative? Maybe we start by not making the narrative about who's fault it is or which party added more.

The debt is there and it's growing. I don't care which president's face is on the cash in my wallet, I only care where it comes from and where it goes.

How do we bring it down? That's an appropriate topic of discussion here. There are so many things to spend it ON, that's the easy part, maybe we first begin by making sure those expenditures yield optimum results?

Like: Economic recovery
Like: Efforts to eradicate Covid
Like: Elimination of student loans
Like: Promises of free education
Like: Healthcare for all
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
How do we change the narrative? Maybe we start by not making the narrative about who's fault it is or which party added more.

The debt is there and it's growing. I don't care which president's face is on the cash in my wallet, I only care where it comes from and where it goes.

How do we bring it down? That's an appropriate topic of discussion here.

I agree. That’s why I pointed out that both are at fault. I think the narrative needs to focus on what the debt means to the average American. There really isn’t a concerted effort on that front. It’s like a lot of things, we don’t get past the talking points. We’ve got to focus on why it’s important to bring it down and find people who are actually willing to do it. We spend way too much on interest payments.

Question is what do we cut and when?
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I agree. That’s why I pointed out that both are at fault. I think the narrative needs to focus on what the debt means to the average American. There really isn’t a concerted effort on that front. It’s like a lot of things, we don’t get past the talking points. We’ve got to focus on why it’s important to bring it down and find people who are actually willing to do it. We spend way too much on interest payments.

Question is what do we cut and when?

I think it's like a speeding train - it's impossible to move in reverse until it's slowed down. The velocity of national debt has to first decrease. What can be cut and when is largely dependent on where future funding is derived from, as the need may never be eliminated.

For example, health care.
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
So here's where our money went in 2019:

1605798658521.png


The largest chunk is Social Security. It's almost criminal that it's in such bad shape. Without pointing fingers, it needs to be addressed.

Military spending - This is an area where I agreed with Trump, somewhat. Other countries enjoy our fighter jets while using their money to improve their education and healthcare. We need a better balance. We can't carry the world's military.
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
So here's where our money went in 2019:

View attachment 514159

The largest chunk is Social Security. It's almost criminal that it's in such bad shape. Without pointing fingers, it needs to be addressed.

Military spending - This is an area where I agreed with Trump, somewhat. Other countries enjoy our fighter jets while using their money to improve their education and healthcare. We need a better balance. We can't carry the world's military.

From what I've learned about the problems with Social Security, the fixes are relatively simple and effective. For example, raising the contribution cap. That alone goes a long way towards solvency. Yet for some reason it hasn't been raised substantially or even removed.

Military: Agreed. We can start by not being the world's protector.
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
From what I've learned about the problems with Social Security, the fixes are relatively simple and effective. For example, raising the contribution cap. That alone goes a long way towards solvency. Yet for some reason it hasn't been raised substantially or even removed.

Military: Agreed. We can start by not being the world's protector.

And as an electorate we need to become better versed on these issues and start demanding our representatives do our bidding by working on these problems. That's why I ask the question how do we make the average person care. If we don't care as an electorate, there is no way our representatives will do anything. I still remember the "Lock Box" debate between Bush and Gore. That was 20 years ago. I know SS has been discussed since then, but it seems like we should have fixed it by now. It's why I get frustrated with politics. We kick around the same arguments and nothing happens. How do we change that? How do we educate the electorate in a bipartisan fashion? I realize this is straying away from the topic and its obviously more rhetorical as if we knew the answers, we would already be at a better spot.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
I agree. That’s why I pointed out that both are at fault. I think the narrative needs to focus on what the debt means to the average American. There really isn’t a concerted effort on that front. It’s like a lot of things, we don’t get past the talking points. We’ve got to focus on why it’s important to bring it down and find people who are actually willing to do it. We spend way too much on interest payments.

Question is what do we cut and when?
We’re already well past the point of fixing it, it’s already too late. The time to stop it would have been decades ago.

As to your question? You could cut the military to zero, sell every bullet, every aircraft carrier the whole lot and fund the government maybe for a few months.

Add to this the desire for:
“Free” universal Heath Care
“Free” college
“Free” universal pre-K
College loan forgiveness

These are but a few. And we’re going to ask to cut? Don’t see that happening

Ive been asking here and elsewhere just where is this money coming from? Usury I here utter nonsense about “tax the rich and corporations!”

Simply put we have a massive spending problem in the US. We we’re in bad shape prior to Covid and now with the second round of lockdowns approaching?

What we will get? The political partisans and economically illiterate pointing fingers at each other while spending more money we don’t have.
 
Last edited:

Willmark

Well-Known Member
That's why I ask the question how do we make the average person care.
The average person doesn’t care because it’s so remote and impersonal of a problem that they can’t wrap their brain around it. That’s understandable as it’s human nature.

The part that can’t be excused is the simple minded parroting of “taxing the rich will pay for it.”
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Here’s a question. Is a reasonable amount of debt expected for any developed nation? What is reasonable? What isn’t?

I could care less if my country is debt free if that means all social services are now cut and my life in said country is... crap.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
From what I've learned about the problems with Social Security, the fixes are relatively simple and effective. For example, raising the contribution cap. That alone goes a long way towards solvency. Yet for some reason it hasn't been raised substantially or even removed.

Military: Agreed. We can start by not being the world's protector.
I think that helps but I’m not sure. Most people aren’t aware that entitlements are the single biggest thing we spend money on. I bet if you polled the average person they might something like NASA.

As far the military? Exactly why I reject out of hand any admonishments from Europe or Canada for that matter. They have been able to create very generous social programs while hiding behind the US military all the while finger waging about how backward we are for not having Universal Healthcare. Well, of course, being the idiots we are were subsidizing yours!
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
The average person doesn’t care because it’s so remote and impersonal of a problem that they can’t wrap their brain around it. That’s understandable as it’s human nature.

The part that can’t be excused is the simple minded parroting of “taxing the rich will pay for it.”

I think our politicians could do better in working to explain it. For example "If we didn't have to pay 8% on interest alone, here's all the money we would be saving".

The way you feel about "taxing the rich will pay for it" is how I feel about "cut taxes and the wealth will trickle down".
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
Here’s a question. Is a reasonable amount of debt expected for any developed nation? What is reasonable? What isn’t?

I could care less if my country is debt free if that means all social services are now cut and my life in said country is... crap.
Reasonable is relative to the GDP.

The USA has been playing a dangerous game for decades that unlike most political discussions here each party is responsible for. Now with that out of the way.

National Debt isn’t of itself entirely bad. The problem is this right now:
- add more debt by piling on the programs I mentioned.
- more interest in the already ballooning debt.
- no cutting of spending?
- residing taxes? Not a great idea

So as to your last statement? We’re well pay the point of cutting not being an option. Because the stark reality is it has to happen or you’re looking at minimum a global mess. If the US implodes easily half the world goes down with us.
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
I think our politicians could do better in working to explain it. For example "If we didn't have to pay 8% on interest alone, here's all the money we would be saving".

The way you feel about "taxing the rich will pay for it" is how I feel about "cut taxes and the wealth will trickle down".
Neither solution is going to fix the problem. It will do no good to increase taxes on the rich if at the same time you are increasing spending on social programs. And vice versa - lowering taxes without lowering expenditures is not going to do anything to bring down our debt.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
I think our politicians could do better in working to explain it. For example "If we didn't have to pay 8% on interest alone, here's all the money we would be saving".

The way you feel about "taxing the rich will pay for it" is how I feel about "cut taxes and the wealth will trickle down".
No amount of taxing will solve even the current level of spending let alone the Covid spending or the projected goodies the Democrats are hoping to pass.

This isn’t a partisan issues, it’s a cold hard reality issue.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Top Bottom