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Union Recommends Voting Against Disney Contract Proposal
- Thread starter jcraycraft
- Start date
SpaceRacer2003
New Member
Dizknee_Phreek said:Has Disney said that their employees need to manage their money better? Or have they just insinuated that? Either way, how unsympathetic is that?
I did not hear the quotes first hand, but here they are:
:fork: :fork: QUOTE OF THE MONTH: "We're not negotiating now." Michael Eisner, as quoted in the Orlando Sentinel after a worker brought up contract talks and told the Disney CEO, "(Our work during hurricane Charley) shows the dedication that we have to this company, and we'd like to be appreciated as well."
:fork: RUNNER-UP QUOTE OF THE MONTH: "What do you expect, living in a trailer?" Michael Eisner, at Studios cafeteria meeting with Cast Members, after listening to examples of Cast Members' dedication to the company during the hurricane and being given the example of damage done to the home of a Cast Member's father.
SpaceRacer2003
New Member
Disney workers union rejects contract
By Todd Pack | Orlando Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted October 1, 2004, 9:58 PM EDT
Walt Disney World's largest group of unionized workers today rejected the company's latest contract offer despite months of negotiations.
Workers belonging to the Service Trades Council turned down the offer by a vote of 3,659 to 96.
Union leaders had predicted the vote would fail despite Disney's offer of a 4 percent pay raise and a bonus of at least $400 each year of the three-year contract.
A major sticking point in Disney's proposal was the amount employees would have paid toward their health coverage, said Joe Condo, president of the Trades Council.
"It was a major, major issue," Condo said.
In August, workers rejected the company's initial contract by a vote of 4,122 to 15.
Disney had offered a 1 percent raise and a one-time bonus of $500 for employees who had not reached the maximum wage allowed under the current contract.
Condo said talks would resume Oct. 12.
There has never been a strike at Disney.
Disney's three-year contract with the trades council expired May 1. The council represents about 20,000 workers from six local unions in a wide range of jobs, from performers to housekeepers to food and beverage workers.
The Service Trades Council represents The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Local 631; United Food and Commercial Workers, Local 1625; Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees International Union, Locals 737 and 362; Teamsters, Local 385; and Transportation Communications International Union, Local 1908. Todd Pack can be reached at tpack@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5407.
By Todd Pack | Orlando Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted October 1, 2004, 9:58 PM EDT
Walt Disney World's largest group of unionized workers today rejected the company's latest contract offer despite months of negotiations.
Workers belonging to the Service Trades Council turned down the offer by a vote of 3,659 to 96.
Union leaders had predicted the vote would fail despite Disney's offer of a 4 percent pay raise and a bonus of at least $400 each year of the three-year contract.
A major sticking point in Disney's proposal was the amount employees would have paid toward their health coverage, said Joe Condo, president of the Trades Council.
"It was a major, major issue," Condo said.
In August, workers rejected the company's initial contract by a vote of 4,122 to 15.
Disney had offered a 1 percent raise and a one-time bonus of $500 for employees who had not reached the maximum wage allowed under the current contract.
Condo said talks would resume Oct. 12.
There has never been a strike at Disney.
Disney's three-year contract with the trades council expired May 1. The council represents about 20,000 workers from six local unions in a wide range of jobs, from performers to housekeepers to food and beverage workers.
The Service Trades Council represents The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Local 631; United Food and Commercial Workers, Local 1625; Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees International Union, Locals 737 and 362; Teamsters, Local 385; and Transportation Communications International Union, Local 1908. Todd Pack can be reached at tpack@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5407.
BwanaBob
Well-Known Member
Yeah...Eisner makes a crapload. So. Welcome to the world of professional CEO's. Show me a DOW 30 company where the CEO doesn't make a boatload. Better yet... list for me how many of the Fortune 500 make less than $1 mil as basic annual salary (DO NOT take in consideration stock, loans, grants, and the such!...all of which perks that go with the title!)
I LOVE big "D" just as everyone else here does. I've thought about working there. After talking with many of you... some more than others (you know who you are!) I may never consider the thought again. Sad. I will gladly give anyone my stance on this entire situation... but not on this thread. There's too much involved.
Food for thought.
Do teachers get paid enough?
Why is insurance such a pain in the ______?
Why do pro sports make millions more than the Pres of the US?
Why do CEO's loans get forgiven?
Life ain't fair. Being 'mad' at the situation is one thing. UNDERSTANDING the situation (both sides) is completely another. HennieBogan1966 hit on some VERY important points, REGARDLESS of whether WDW seemed fair, or not. Please understand one thing though... you will never..... NEVER... see a 'respectable' deal come from WDW...no matter who's in charge.
Roy can't do it either.
I LOVE big "D" just as everyone else here does. I've thought about working there. After talking with many of you... some more than others (you know who you are!) I may never consider the thought again. Sad. I will gladly give anyone my stance on this entire situation... but not on this thread. There's too much involved.
Food for thought.
Do teachers get paid enough?
Why is insurance such a pain in the ______?
Why do pro sports make millions more than the Pres of the US?
Why do CEO's loans get forgiven?
Life ain't fair. Being 'mad' at the situation is one thing. UNDERSTANDING the situation (both sides) is completely another. HennieBogan1966 hit on some VERY important points, REGARDLESS of whether WDW seemed fair, or not. Please understand one thing though... you will never..... NEVER... see a 'respectable' deal come from WDW...no matter who's in charge.
Roy can't do it either.
Yen_Sid1
New Member
The big part of the problem is most don't care about their pay or benefits. Of course, they would like to have more pay and benefits but they don't want to fight for them. I guess they are happy with what Disney just gives them.
There are 20,000 cast members covered by the Service Trades Council contract but only 3755 (3659+96) voted (that's even less than the first vote). That is only 18% of the workers that voted, so only 18% of the workers cared about their pay and benefits. So Disney sees this as a small minority, so why should they give them a better deal?
There are 20,000 cast members covered by the Service Trades Council contract but only 3755 (3659+96) voted (that's even less than the first vote). That is only 18% of the workers that voted, so only 18% of the workers cared about their pay and benefits. So Disney sees this as a small minority, so why should they give them a better deal?
SpaceRacer2003 said:
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
In Response to PhotoDave and Disneygirl
In the end, it's a business. It's about what the fair market value for a given job is. Disney isn't the only theme park comp. in the area that pays these kinds of wages. Again, if the wages aren't sufficient to live on, then your choice is to do something else for a living. However, if you feel that working for Disney is more important to you, and you accepted the pay rate when you were hired, (which you did), then you can't then blame Disney for not paying you enough. It was your choice to say, "yes", I'll take the job.
I don't disagree that the wages should be higher, as I stated in my previous post, but that's a different issue in a much bigger picture across the country.
Most jobs don't pay what they're worth to companies, but that's life. The way we can change these things is to vote people into office in our states that support raising minimum wage, which will then trickle down to other types of jobs.
As for the quality of service that Disney provides, that is something that is expected from each CM. It's something that you agree to give when you are hired by the company. I know this because my Wife and I both worked for and are working at TDS here in Austin.
My point again about the Union is that, in the end, the only one who benefits in most cases, will be union mgmgt. and Disney. I will tell you from experience that IF the union does successfully negotiate higher wages, it will come with a price tag for union members. I don't discount that the deal that's been brought to the table is insulting, but did any of you expect Disney to come to the table and say "We're here to bend over and give you whatever you want!?" Let's be realistic. Again, if enough people refuse to work for those wages, (i.e. walkout, strike, etc.), then Disney has less leverage. On the other hand, if union mgmt. agrees, on your behalf I might add, to a contract less than what you are looking for, then you're stuck. But in the end, they are going to do something along those lines, so that the next time they come to the table with Disney, they know that Disney will at least be willing to "listen" to demands. If they walk in with threats of a strike, Disney will be much less inclined to listen or negotiate. And here's where it can get tricky. As I experienced in WVA, companies, when threatened, will hire outside workers in a pinch to get the job done. Again, it's about putting butts in the seats. And believe me, they will paint a picture that is very unflattering for those who have "walked out". Hence my problem with unions altogether. If there is no union to which you are beholden, people will be more inclined to set the conditions under which they will work. Sometimes when people here the word union, they believe they are going to be protected from being taken advantage of by the company.
For example, if 6.80 were too low for you, you would demand more. But if Disney says, well that's what YOU'RE union members agreed to, what choice do you have? That's why it is a catch 22 when dealing with a union.
In the end Disney mgmt., and union mgmt. know one thing. IT'S ABOUT MAKING MONEY!!!!
In the end, it's a business. It's about what the fair market value for a given job is. Disney isn't the only theme park comp. in the area that pays these kinds of wages. Again, if the wages aren't sufficient to live on, then your choice is to do something else for a living. However, if you feel that working for Disney is more important to you, and you accepted the pay rate when you were hired, (which you did), then you can't then blame Disney for not paying you enough. It was your choice to say, "yes", I'll take the job.
I don't disagree that the wages should be higher, as I stated in my previous post, but that's a different issue in a much bigger picture across the country.
Most jobs don't pay what they're worth to companies, but that's life. The way we can change these things is to vote people into office in our states that support raising minimum wage, which will then trickle down to other types of jobs.
As for the quality of service that Disney provides, that is something that is expected from each CM. It's something that you agree to give when you are hired by the company. I know this because my Wife and I both worked for and are working at TDS here in Austin.
My point again about the Union is that, in the end, the only one who benefits in most cases, will be union mgmgt. and Disney. I will tell you from experience that IF the union does successfully negotiate higher wages, it will come with a price tag for union members. I don't discount that the deal that's been brought to the table is insulting, but did any of you expect Disney to come to the table and say "We're here to bend over and give you whatever you want!?" Let's be realistic. Again, if enough people refuse to work for those wages, (i.e. walkout, strike, etc.), then Disney has less leverage. On the other hand, if union mgmt. agrees, on your behalf I might add, to a contract less than what you are looking for, then you're stuck. But in the end, they are going to do something along those lines, so that the next time they come to the table with Disney, they know that Disney will at least be willing to "listen" to demands. If they walk in with threats of a strike, Disney will be much less inclined to listen or negotiate. And here's where it can get tricky. As I experienced in WVA, companies, when threatened, will hire outside workers in a pinch to get the job done. Again, it's about putting butts in the seats. And believe me, they will paint a picture that is very unflattering for those who have "walked out". Hence my problem with unions altogether. If there is no union to which you are beholden, people will be more inclined to set the conditions under which they will work. Sometimes when people here the word union, they believe they are going to be protected from being taken advantage of by the company.
For example, if 6.80 were too low for you, you would demand more. But if Disney says, well that's what YOU'RE union members agreed to, what choice do you have? That's why it is a catch 22 when dealing with a union.
In the end Disney mgmt., and union mgmt. know one thing. IT'S ABOUT MAKING MONEY!!!!
10 min. to wdw
Member
I fully support the union as well on this. Walt disney once said something to the effect of disneyland isn't about money. I don't remember the exact quote but Eisner needs to try to live off of what a CM makes for takehome pay for 3 months and I think he would have a new appricaition for every CM out there.
SpaceRacer2003
New Member
In response to the lower turnout, yes these unions represent 20,000 cast, not all of them are union members (I don't have the specific numbers), but membership is on the rise there has been a great jump in those who are now activly taking a part in thier future.
Also, the original August 6th vote was announced on July 16th, giving almost three weeks to get the word out and for people to make sure they could go. Yesterdays vote (October 1st) was announced Sept. 28th, 3 DAYS before the vote.
And third, you must go on your own time, if you are scheduled to work, sorry you can't go unless you find a way out of your shift. It's not like in your 30 minute lunch break at the Magic Kingdom you can change clothes, drive to your voting location, and make it back in time. :brick:
Also, the original August 6th vote was announced on July 16th, giving almost three weeks to get the word out and for people to make sure they could go. Yesterdays vote (October 1st) was announced Sept. 28th, 3 DAYS before the vote.
And third, you must go on your own time, if you are scheduled to work, sorry you can't go unless you find a way out of your shift. It's not like in your 30 minute lunch break at the Magic Kingdom you can change clothes, drive to your voting location, and make it back in time. :brick:
Atta83
Well-Known Member
HennieBogan1966 said:
I know people who worked at Six Flags Astroworld this summer and they made more than min. wage. A sweep techinichion (sweeper or custodial) makes $10.00 an hour. So Disney employees should be making that much as well.
I know you said something about making money, but if you have employees who cant live and work by what you are paying them then the theme park would not be open and it would be going through people left and right. Many people leave jobs due to benifits I know family that is going through a tough time because the father has been pulling alot of sales and he has been with the company for a few years and has not been given a raise or any benifits. It just plain sucks. So right now the mother is pulling in all the benifits for the family.
And Disney employees can live off waht they make, they just dont live a high profile life. They get by on what they can. Some do pretty well while others dont know how to manage their money.
General Grizz
New Member
Any official sources for that second quote would be MUCH appreciated.SpaceRacer2003 said:
Well I myself and my husband are both union members, and we have been very lucky to have great benefits, LIVING wages and the means to afford vacations several times a year, THANKS to our union membership, the state of Indiana is not a right-to-work state.....I think Florida has to look at the legislature level about changing things for all workers, honestly I was really embarrassed to find out that Disney only pays $6.80 per hour for some of the wonderful CM'ers we have encountered, I can't believe they would even be able to smile
"workers are like kindling, when they are apart they are weak, but when put together they are very strong"
"workers are like kindling, when they are apart they are weak, but when put together they are very strong"
niteobsrvr
Well-Known Member
Most of the time I take a more management centered view of things at Disney. And in a way, will do the same here while not totally removing responsibility for Disney wages they pay.
The reality here in central Florida is that things cost more, a lot more for things like housing and gas, than they did 4 years ago when arrived here. When I moved to Orlando in Fall of 2000, you could still purchase a house in a reasonable neighborhood at a reasonable distance form the place you worked for 80 to 90 thousand dollars. Today it is hard to find a development with houses priced under 200. I honestly cannot think of the last time I saw a development sign that said "starting from the 160's" or something like that and still being less than an hour commute away. If you find a house in the area that sells for 150 or so, it is usually on the market for mere days and it is in a neighborhood in which you wouldn't let your kids go out and play by theirselves. For those of you with a handy calculator you can see how much property values have increased in 4 years.
I won't even go into the gasoline thing.
Here is the kicker. Wage rates in Orlando, regardless of who you work for, don't even come close to reflecting these increases in cost of living. Disney along with every other employer in this town has not felt enough pressure yet to find qualified employees to actually raise wages to a living level. We have a huge labor pool here of people who are willing to work two or 3 jobs or live with lots of adult family members in order to make ends meet. However, in my current job, I am starting to see the pressure build. Where as we used to get a stack of hundres of resumes for open positions, we now get 15 or 20 and many of those folks wouldn't pass the pre-employment drug screen.
In a few years, maybe all will be right with Orlando's labor market. But for now, I dont' see any major changes and Disney is already paying at or above the prevailing wage for many of the service industry jobs in this area especially when you figure in benefits. Although, benefits certainly don't pay the rent.
I would like to see Disney step up to the plate as the largest area employer and increase wages to set them apart from everyone else. I would also like to see the park admission, room rates, and food prices increased to meet these higher wages. Afterall, the company has a right to make a certain level of profit every year. Maybe its time the guests see the real cost of a Florida/Disney vacation instead of the depressed wage fantasy version this area has been dealing with for years.
The reality here in central Florida is that things cost more, a lot more for things like housing and gas, than they did 4 years ago when arrived here. When I moved to Orlando in Fall of 2000, you could still purchase a house in a reasonable neighborhood at a reasonable distance form the place you worked for 80 to 90 thousand dollars. Today it is hard to find a development with houses priced under 200. I honestly cannot think of the last time I saw a development sign that said "starting from the 160's" or something like that and still being less than an hour commute away. If you find a house in the area that sells for 150 or so, it is usually on the market for mere days and it is in a neighborhood in which you wouldn't let your kids go out and play by theirselves. For those of you with a handy calculator you can see how much property values have increased in 4 years.
I won't even go into the gasoline thing.
Here is the kicker. Wage rates in Orlando, regardless of who you work for, don't even come close to reflecting these increases in cost of living. Disney along with every other employer in this town has not felt enough pressure yet to find qualified employees to actually raise wages to a living level. We have a huge labor pool here of people who are willing to work two or 3 jobs or live with lots of adult family members in order to make ends meet. However, in my current job, I am starting to see the pressure build. Where as we used to get a stack of hundres of resumes for open positions, we now get 15 or 20 and many of those folks wouldn't pass the pre-employment drug screen.
In a few years, maybe all will be right with Orlando's labor market. But for now, I dont' see any major changes and Disney is already paying at or above the prevailing wage for many of the service industry jobs in this area especially when you figure in benefits. Although, benefits certainly don't pay the rent.
I would like to see Disney step up to the plate as the largest area employer and increase wages to set them apart from everyone else. I would also like to see the park admission, room rates, and food prices increased to meet these higher wages. Afterall, the company has a right to make a certain level of profit every year. Maybe its time the guests see the real cost of a Florida/Disney vacation instead of the depressed wage fantasy version this area has been dealing with for years.
Mary Poppins
Member
niteobsrvr said:
The same thing is happening in WDW Entertainment. Ten years ago auditions for parade performers (who are represented by this union...principal dancers, singers, actors are not.) had to be held in large venues like Valencia Community College. They were held every three months or so. Several thousand people would show up and the entire process would take 10-12 hours. Now there are auditions every week and there are only three to five at each audition. That should tell Disney something.
niteobsrvr
Well-Known Member
Invero said:
It all still comes down to Money. Even work conditions relate to money. Disney is just working at bringing things in line with other employers in the area and preventing folks form getting overtime that shoudln't really be entitled to it.
Most folks don't get overtime until they have completed 40 full hours in a week and thats all that federal wage law requires. For most places at Disney, that isn't going to make for a real change. I can't see them working someone 40 hours in 4 days of a 5 day schedule and then sending them home on the fifth day. WHo do they get to work on that fifth day? Someone on overtime?
Also take the person on the 30 hour bid schedule, How many of them come in everyday asking to extend because they can make just as much money or more than someone who works a 40 hour schedule and thats it.
The downside could be that Disney starts coming up with more and more 30 hour schedules. Then if they need you to work past your scheduled stop time and you volunteer it is still just straight time. In my opinion, that would be a great disservice to the decent cast members.
Health benefits are also just money issues. Many times employees think they have won something if they get lower cost insurance. They also think they have gained something if they get a moderately higher wage rate without thinking that the cost of their health benefits will increase and eat into it.
The reality is business sets a target dollar amount for wages and benefits combined. For example, sake lets say Disneys number for the average employee is 20 bucks an hour. Out of that amount must come the cost of the actual wage, the benefits like health, dental, vision, pension, disability. It also must include the cost of unemployment insurance, workman's comp and other taxes. Yes, I know business can't charge the employee for those latter things but it is still figured in the total wage and benefit amount. Disney also must account for all free admissions and so on for emplyees if my acounting knowledge serves me correctly.
So if you look at all the items that make up that 20 bucks, you can see that you will always fall in between the federal minimum wage and the max amount of $20. The question for the emplyee is how much of a take home wage do I want compared to benefits. A higher take home wage typically means you also pay more out of pocket for healthcare, etc. That could be in the form of higher deductions from your paycheck or less coverage and higher copays at the doctors office.
A company like Disney loves to tout the free benefits they offer like dedicating someone in HR to negotiate reduced fees for cell phones, discounts on shoes and car repair and those types of things. Reason being they can keep wages lower while dangling fringe benefits and it doesnt cost them anything per person.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
So since Disney doesnt want to do right by its workers, does that mean the CMs dont have to do right by the guests?