• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

Trumpcare a rousing success!

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Nah, not really.

Only seven years and the GOP can't make a plan that is inhumane enough for its far right fringe. Just think about that if you support him.

Trump is going to have a great time leading (unless he can take advantage of a terrorist attack, my biggest fear, google "Reichstag fire" since they don't teach history anymore) when he can't control the fringe of his party. And the other party has decided to do unto the GOP as the GOP did unto them and just say NO! to everything.

But it is enjoyable watching him fail at every major thing he promises from repeal and replacing the ACA to making Mexico pay for his wall to banning Muslims from entering the country to creating jobs to using US steel on the pipeline to ... pretty much everything ...
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Advertisement
It it's not Trump's fault:rolleyes: It's all Paul Ryan's fault:rolleyes: He's just the poor victim of Paul Ryan and the House Republicans tying to make him look bad:rolleyes:. Trump never really wanted to tackle healthcare first anyway so he's happy to focus on something easy like tax reform now:rolleyes:

1 more...Mexico is going to pay for the wall...just later:rolleyes:
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
It it's not Trump's fault:rolleyes: It's all Paul Ryan's fault:rolleyes: He's just the poor victim of Paul Ryan and the House Republicans tying to make him look bad:rolleyes:. Trump never really wanted to tackle healthcare first anyway so he's happy to focus on something easy like tax reform now:rolleyes:

1 more...Mexico is going to pay for the wall...just later:rolleyes:
I am glad it went down as it would have just been Obamacare Lite...the Freedom Caucus wanted a true reform and they did as they should and fought against this poor bill. Believe me Obamacare will crumble on its own in a few years on its own and Trump knew that. He wanted to let it die its own death anyways before Paul Rhino tried to rally for a bill. Tax reform should be first and foremost and hopefully we can come together and get meaningful results from this.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I am glad it went down as it would have just been Obamacare Lite...the Freedom Caucus wanted a true reform and they did as they should and fought against this poor bill. Believe me Obamacare will crumble on its own in a few years on its own and Trump knew that. He wanted to let it die its own death anyways before Paul Rhino tried to rally for a bill. Tax reform should be first and foremost and hopefully we can come together and get meaningful results from this.
We can agree to disagree on whether Trump wanted this bill to pass. If he really didn't like it then why not say that when he saw what they were going to vote on? Why not ask Ryan to go back and work on it and bring a better bill to the table? If he didn't like the bill he could even have refused to sign it if/when it passed. So really he had total control. It's easy to spin it that you never cared for the bill anyway after it fails, but for days leading into the vote Trump himself and Spicy and the rest of the PR crew pimped this bill pretty hard. They said on more than one occasion there is no plan B and no alternative...we will get this bill passed. The administration went as far as threatening Republican Congressman who didn't go along. Why go so hard to push for a bill that you really didn't want to pass because you secretly wanted Obamacare to die on its own? Seems like revisionist history to me. Maybe that's in one of the lost chapters of the art of the deal...if all else fails, never take responsibility for a failure, just blame it on someone else;)

I'm really looking forward to see how tax reform goes. Trump is going to face resistance from the same people on some of his tax ideas. Hopefully he learned his lesson and will try to work with all sides and takes his time instead of rushing a lousy bill into a vote without having all the ducks lined up. He also better reach out to Grover Norquist and get his approval. No tax reform bill will pass without Grover's blessing.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
We can agree to disagree on whether Trump wanted this bill to pass. If he really didn't like it then why not say that when he saw what they were going to vote on? Why not ask Ryan to go back and work on it and bring a better bill to the table? If he didn't like the bill he could even have refused to sign it if/when it passed. So really he had total control. It's easy to spin it that you never cared for the bill anyway after it fails, but for days leading into the vote Trump himself and Spicy and the rest of the PR crew pimped this bill pretty hard. They said on more than one occasion there is no plan B and no alternative...we will get this bill passed. The administration went as far as threatening Republican Congressman who didn't go along. Why go so hard to push for a bill that you really didn't want to pass because you secretly wanted Obamacare to die on its own? Seems like revisionist history to me. Maybe that's in one of the lost chapters of the art of the deal...if all else fails, never take responsibility for a failure, just blame it on someone else;)

I'm really looking forward to see how tax reform goes. Trump is going to face resistance from the same people on some of his tax ideas. Hopefully he learned his lesson and will try to work with all sides and takes his time instead of rushing a lousy bill into a vote without having all the ducks lined up. He also better reach out to Grover Norquist and get his approval. No tax reform bill will pass without Grover's blessing.
He went with Paul on this because Paul probably told him he had the votes. He also wanted to please his electorate that wanted a change in the the Healthcare. Every deal a business man makes does not immediately work out for them . People slam trump for his failures but ask any CEO and they will tell you that their failures a a small part of why their success are so successful. He is the newcomer and was trying to make good faith attempt to let his Congress do their job and support it as much as he can. It didn't work out and instead of digging in his heels and dragging it out he's doing the correct business move in tabling it and moving on to the next agenda that may garner more support from both sides.

To anyone that has followed Trump one of the things he is good at is delegation. He truly believes if he puts the best people in the correct role then they should be left to do their role while he oversees.

This post is not praise Trump but to give another perspective

Remember, Congresses job is not to pass Laws and bills all the time. People look at bills not passed as failures when I see it as government working as it should. Enforce and strengthen the laws already in place and act as the counter to the Executive and Judicial Branch. The bills passed in this age have to much pork and special interest that it can do more harm ot the electorate than good
 

Laketravis

Premium Member
I think it was a wise play to proclaim the Dems now own Obamacare, because I only see it getting worse and even it's strongest supporters will eventually agree on portions that need repair. But it also opens the door for the Dems to propose single payer as the solution, the outcome they've always wanted. And that's not a solution, in my opinion.

On to tax reform, which probably should have been tackled first. It's not going to be easy, there are just as many points of contention there if not more, but too many of the current population suffer from recency effect and think low interest rates/low GDP growth is the norm.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
He went with Paul on this because Paul probably told him he had the votes. He also wanted to please his electorate that wanted a change in the the Healthcare.
I agree with this 100%. It also directly contradicts the idea that Trump didn't like the bill and didn't want it to pass. Unless he wanted a bill that he didn't really like to pass which is just dumb.
Every deal a business man makes does not immediately work out for them . People slam trump for his failures but ask any CEO and they will tell you that their failures a a small part of why their success are so successful.
This is true, but being President of the United States and being CEO of a company are not the same thing. Some of the skills necessary to run a successful business are similar, but there are very big differences. I actually think being the CEO of a large public corporation is probably more similar to being President than running a family business. A corporate CEO has to answer to the board of directors/shareholders and has to use a lot more diplomacy to get his goals accomplished. With the kind of business Trump was running he called the shots. It was his way or you were fired. He answered to nobody. When he negotiated with a sub-contractor he was the biggest fish and often could force his way by threatening to pull business away from the opponent. That practice doesn't work as well in politics. I think Trump is having a hard time adjusting to this new reality in dealings both with Congress and with foreign leaders. He wants to just tell people what to do, but in government you often need to compromise a little or at least allow the other side to save face. If you make yourself look strong and belittle your opposition they are going to lose face and they need to worry about being re-elected too. Even if you ultimately get your way you need to allow the other side an opportunity to look like they won too.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
^^^^Agreed and that is why I am holding judgment on how good a President is since he has yet to learn the political ropes....after 2 years that can be answered in full more than likely
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
^^^^Agreed and that is why I am holding judgment on how good a President is since he has yet to learn the political ropes....after 2 years that can be answered in full more than likely
For sure. The people calling his Presidency a failure already, calling him a lame duck or calling for his impeachment are way over the top. It's definitely off to a rough start but he has time to turn things around. I think a good start might be getting rid of some of the advisors who seem to be giving him bad advice every step of the way.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
As an Englishman looking in on this, I find it incredible that the American people voted in someone who has zero political or military experience, never held an elected office, and who's only public achievements are being a reality TV star and a moderately successful businessman. Is there really any surprise that things aren't working out?
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
As an Englishman looking in on this, I find it incredible that the American people voted in someone who has zero political or military experience, never held an elected office, and who's only public achievements are being a reality TV star and a moderately successful businessman. Is there really any surprise that things aren't working out?
You say that like having one dysfunctional branch of government is a bad thing...

66% of the US government is still working. That's a passing grade!

It's an interesting experiment. Once I'm not particularly happy to take a part in, but perhaps this hiccup is what is needed to purge the far sides and bring the whole more to the center.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
As an Englishman looking in on this, I find it incredible that the American people voted in someone who has zero political or military experience, never held an elected office, and who's only public achievements are being a reality TV star and a moderately successful businessman. Is there really any surprise that things aren't working out?
All due respect, it's been 2 freakin months!!!!!!!!!! When you created this site it was not the well oiled machine it is today. i said the same thing about Obama's first few months. For Oprah Winfrey, her first two months as a president would also be chaotic and rough because the ruthless Political world is a lot for an outsider to adjust to. In two months Trump has shaved over 400 billion dollars off the debt and to some people that would be seen as a tremendous success.

Some would say the Brexit vote re-energized Trumps electorate...in my circles it certainly did energize people to get out and push against a gov't they felt were not working for them.

America elected a Movie Star to a president over 3 decades ago and he became a two term Heroic figure that both parties name drop often.

Trump was not the best choice as the Non Politician to come in and turn Washington upside down to get right side up. But he is the one we have and like it or not. Americans are tired of the fake rhetoric politicians that care more about getting re-elected than doing what is asked of them by the people.

Just my Opinion :)
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
But by his own words, he was going to have healthcare done on day 1.

It's easy to shout these promises at conventions and one liners on Twitter, but as he's finding out, doing it isn't so easy.
And Obama said he would close down Gitmo....

I know people don't like his bravado and pompous exterior but if we are be honest and not contradictory, he should be given the same grace period we give every other new president

Im glad he is finding out it wont be easy as that is the learning curve. I am also glad he is using the business like "tag it and bag" it approach to failed agendas. Move on swiftly to another endeavor and come back to that idea at a later time.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
America elected a Movie Star to a president over 3 decades ago and he became a two term Heroic figure that both parties name drop often.
Ronald Reagan served 8 years as the governor of CA before he ran for President. He was a movie star, but he had some experience governing and also some experience working with unions on political issues even during his time in Hollywood.

I agree that it's early in for Trump and too soon to declare this "experiment" a complete failure, but some of the fears people had about Trump's lack of experience and judgement seem to be coming true. The biggest difference between Trump and Reagan or Obama (who was relatively less experienced than most Presidential candidates) is that the other 2 guys surrounded themselves with experienced cabinet members and advisors that could help them. A wise man recognizes his weaknesses and brings in others to help, a fool thinks he knows it all and surrounds himself with other fools who will only be yes men and never disagrees with the boss.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
^^^^ Agreed and I was egregious in forgetting Reagan Government experience.

I'm gonna make a bold statement....Democrats are the best Politicians on the planet! That is not a compliment.....they are good at colluding around the President and the parties agenda whether they agree or not. They are smarter than Republicans in that they keep their eye on the pride regardless of personal disdain. Power is the name of the game and they know how to use it at their advantage. Obama didn't have to surround himself with yes men because he had a yes party

Republicansupplies however have many factions and are rooted in their individual ideas. Their platform is generally acceptable but they are poor at explaining their message. They do it well state wise (while there are far more Republican governors, even in Blue States) but Federally they are in it for their own agenda and therefore are at odds with each other.

As a card carrying Libertarian I understand there will never be a President I fully support but I am more comforted by individual think call it Divergence, than group think
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
^^^^ Agreed and I was egregious in forgetting Reagan Government experience.

I'm gonna make a bold statement....Democrats are the best Politicians on the planet! That is not a compliment.....they are good at colluding around the President and the parties agenda whether they agree or not. They are smarter than Republicans in that they keep their eye on the pride regardless of personal disdain. Power is the name of the game and they know how to use it at their advantage. Obama didn't have to surround himself with yes men because he had a yes party

Republicansupplies however have many factions and are rooted in their individual ideas. Their platform is generally acceptable but they are poor at explaining their message. They do it well state wise (while there are far more Republican governors, even in Blue States) but Federally they are in it for their own agenda and therefore are at odds with each other.

As a card carrying Libertarian I understand there will never be a President I fully support but I am more comforted by individual think call it Divergence, than group think
I think both parties have some dissention among the ranks. There were some far left Democrats who felt Obamacare didn't go far enough and wanted more of a government controlled program. I also think it's easier to be unified when you are the minority party. It's easier to block progress or critique the controlling party than come up with your own legislation. Obamacare passed without a single Republican vote. They were United then in its opposition.

That being said I'm more talking about picking key advisors like Steve Bannon and his own daughter and son in law. I'm sure he likes those people, but none of them have any experience governing anything either. Since Trump has no governing experience he would be better served bringing in people who can guide him through the process of actually governing and the ways of Washington. Instead he brings in a newspaper head who backed him during the campaign. I think he's learning the hard way that just because you are President doesn't mean you can make up all the rules.
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
As an Englishman looking in on this, I find it incredible that the American people voted in someone who has zero political or military experience, never held an elected office, and who's only public achievements are being a reality TV star and a moderately successful businessman. Is there really any surprise that things aren't working out?
Just to play Devil's Advocate, you could say the same about President Obama - except for the TV part. He was only in the Senate for a couple of years, so not a lot more real political experience- unless you count community organizer. I think he was just as naive about how things work in DC. And, despite what the Right says, IMO he didn't destroy the country.
 

Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
Just to play Devil's Advocate, you could say the same about President Obama - except for the TV part. He was only in the Senate for a couple of years, so not a lot more real political experience- unless you count community organizer. I think he was just as naive about how things work in DC. And, despite what the Right says, IMO he didn't destroy the country.
Don't forget Illinois state senator for roughly 8 years.

Though state government doesn't exactly equal national government, it still counts for some experience.
 
Top Bottom