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Toy Story 4 SPOILER Discussion

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
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Woody leaves the gang to go rogue with Bo Peep after donating an organ.

Told you it was spoilers.
 

DonaldDoleWhip

Well-Known Member
Had a feeling going into it that Woody would say goodbye to the group, as Tim Allen had said his final scene with Hanks was an emotional one. It also would've been pretty cynical and depressing for Woody to stick with Bonnie and fade into oblivion again - now that would've been dark.

That said, when the moment finally came, it almost felt uplifting: a positive development for Woody for the first time in years. I think it closed out Woody's story nicely, freeing him from the shackles of a purpose long since fulfilled, but the goodbyes felt slightly rushed to me. In comparison, the endings of TS3 and Inside Out perfectly encapsulated the bittersweetness of their protagonist's journey.

Still a good watch with beautiful animation, plenty of humor, and heart. It didn't move me to tears like TS3, but it's still a worthwhile conclusion to an incredible franchise.
 
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DonaldDoleWhip

Well-Known Member
(Moving from the general thread just in case)
I'm sure it will be polarizing, but the ending just didn't do it for me. It isn't that I'm 100% opposed to Woody leaving the gang to start a new chapter of his life. I actually thought it was surprisingly honest of the movie to acknowledge that Andy was irreplaceable to Woody; he obviously cared for Bonnie, but his relationship with her would never compare because his attachment to Andy is so strong. It does undermine the TS3 ending thematically for me (TS3 seemed to emphasize the importance of moving on, while TS4 basically suggests Woody will never have another relationship w/ a child as fulfilling as what he had with Andy), but I'm willing to overlook that because it plays into Woody's character arc nicely.
The problem (at least for me) is that the execution fell SO flat. How do you make a movie where the big emotional twist has Woody closing the door on his current owner and closest friends...and then barely feature any of those characters in the movie, let alone his relationships with them? I understand the logic in spotlighting Bo, Woody's "future," but equal attention should have been given to his "past" - Buzz (who was a comedic footnote in this movie), and Jessie and the rest of the legacy supports who were barely given speaking lines. Why are we supposed to care about Woody saying goodbye to his friends when the movie itself so obviously doesn't?
Yes. We all knew the film was leading to a major parting of ways, but I didn't really feel for anyone as it happened. Woody seemed happy, Bo seemed happy, and the rest of the gang could've used more screen time to really drive home the moment's significance.
 

Aaronardo

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Bleh.

The movie tried to make Gabby Gabby and the dummies creepy, and did a good job, but then just dropped that factor altogether for the rest of the movie. We're supposed to feel for that character who not 5 minutes before performed unnecessary surgery on the main character, stealing his innards for her own gain. Very underdeveloped. Just like the climax of the movie. Woody goes through the exact same arc as he did in Toy Story 2 except he makes the opposite decision this time around, and it's also not as built-up or developed so we don't really feel that emotion when he finally makes that decision. The other toys get so little screentime it's hard to care about what they think, and Buzz is so poorly-written I'm almost glad they only gave him about thirty seconds to say goodbye to his life partner.

Felt like three different drafts of the script arguing with each other the entire runtime. I guess we should've expected that after Lasseter got booted off this movie that was literally based on one of his own life experiences. Animation was beautiful, but that's a given. It's Pixar, guys. Humor was alright, some of it landed, some of it was the exact same joke told three times in succession. Duke KaBoom was the best part of the movie imo. Even though he adds nothing to the plot, he's hilarious and Keanu Reeves brings so much energy to the role. I liked that Tin Toy was in the movie.

Overall, some good laughs and excellent visuals, but without a well-executed story the movie has no backbone.
 

NateD1226

Well-Known Member
This movie was absolutely amazing! I loved every second of it. I did tear up during the end of the movie. I think it would be the same or even better than TS3
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
Nope, nope, nope. Woody and Buzz go together: you do not separate them. Okay, had to get that off my chest first.

Walking into the movie, I was nervous. I always had the fear that is was going to be a cash grab. I ADORE the trilogy of Toy Story 1-3. I would argue it is a perfect trilogy. It ended in such a beautiful way and it just did not need furthering. Maybe cute little side stories, but nothing more. And a few minutes in, I realized my fears were right- the beginning plodded along quite slowly and by half way through the movie our original gang of Rex, Potato Heads, Slinky, Ham, Bullseye (were the aliens even in this film?) were pushed to the side (even TS3 newly introduced characters like Dolly, Pricklepants, Trixie, and Buttercup were not really in this movie). No, this was a movie about Forkie, who is less obnoxious that the trailers made him out to be, Bo Peep, and cast of new characters- who were not bad, just not needed. Which leads me to questions:

Was this movie about selling new toys? Yuuuuuup. But, I was in love with the originals.
Was TS4 meant to be a soft reboot? Maybe, because that is what we got.

I liked the setting of the antique store, thought the carnival was an inspired backdrop, and thought Gabby Gabbie and the dummies had an interesting arc (albeit a little organ donor-ish) and I thought- okay, this movie is not awful. I laughed a few times and it was inoffensive, even if not needed.

And then the ending arrived. Nope, nope, nope. Woody does not abandon his owner- this is not who he is. I get it that Andy was his "true" owner, but it just goes against everything Woody stands for as a character. He exists to bring a child joy, not to makeout with some ninja-esque Bo Peep (don't even get me started on how Bo Peep was not the same character at all as the Bo Peep we met in TS1 and TS2). You just do not separate Woody and Buzz.

Until the ending, I was willing to forgive them for the obvious cash grab. Now that I have finished the whole movie I am going to pretend it never happened and that Woody and Buzz are still on Bonnie's porch while Woody waves to Andy. That was art, and this was....an opportunity to sell toys.

I am so disappointed.....
 

Tony Perkis

Well-Known Member
Meh.

Had some fun moments.

But it undercuts the emotional impact of 3 and doesn’t justify its existence as a continuation of the characters’ stories.

It had a lot of wonderful individual moments, and I loved the Kay and Peele duo, but it was otherwise frivolous.

The only time I teared up was in the opening credits, when they briefly showed the Bonnie/Andy scene.

They should have left this series alone.
 
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BrianLo

Well-Known Member
A fantastic true character arc for Woody.

People have an extremely hard time letting ideals and nostalgia go. Just ask our generation or basically anyone on this forum. Even if Woody left Andy at the end of Toy Story 3, he really was still a character in pursuit of a replacement. This was a true acceptance that his purpose was fulfilled and he himself could move on satisfied.

We'll note Bonnie basically never even 'sees' or interacts with Woody the entirety of the film.

There is a lot to learn from Woody about how to truly grow as a person without letting the past shackle you down.

I actually feel this was in the end a conclusion that needed to be told, but now Toy Story can be put to rest. Do some fun shorts if you want, but the story is complete.
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
Thought about it some more- a few more reasons why I didn't like it:

1. Toy Story 3 left you with a sense of calm where it seemed like the toys would be in good hands with Bonnie- like she understood them. Now, it has been what, three months, and Woody has been regulated to the closet? This does not bode well for Buzz and the rest of the gang. Bonnie cared more about a spork than she did these characters that we love. I don't want to think about their future with her.

2. The tone- watching Bonnie be terrified at Kindergarten and cry throughout the movie or watching Woody wallow in self-depression for the whole beginning- not an enjoyable watch.

3. Also, and please do not hate me on this, but while I love me some strong women and female empowerment, I hate when it is at the expense of men or even male characters in a movie. Especially ones seen by little kids. Watch the movie again- how many times does Woody save Bo Peep? None. She helps him when he is falling, she saves his from the dolls at the end, she helps him on to high shelves, she comes up with the plan and even ridicules Woody's plan with Duke Kaboom. Who saves the day in the RV? Jessie with the nail in the tire. And at the end, who becomes sherriff- Jessie?

What does Woody do besides follow Bo Peep around? One scene she even yells at him "I am in charge- you follow me!" What does Buzz do, besides run around like an idiot, doubting his abilities as he listens to his "inner voice".

It just seems like another movie that says "girls are smarter and better than boys so they have all the good ideas". And yes, I realize people are trying to right the wrong of centuries of male empowerment, but if we are to advance as a society, let's boost up women for their strength and intelligence while also accepting the strength and intelligence of men too. It does not, and should not be, either/or.

Rant over...
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
Thought about it some more- a few more reasons why I didn't like it:

1. Toy Story 3 left you with a sense of calm where it seemed like the toys would be in good hands with Bonnie- like she understood them. Now, it has been what, three months, and Woody has been regulated to the closet? This does not bode well for Buzz and the rest of the gang. Bonnie cared more about a spork than she did these characters that we love. I don't want to think about their future with her.

2. The tone- watching Bonnie be terrified at Kindergarten and cry throughout the movie or watching Woody wallow in self-depression for the whole beginning- not an enjoyable watch.

3. Also, and please do not hate me on this, but while I love me some strong women and female empowerment, I hate when it is at the expense of men or even male characters in a movie. Especially ones seen by little kids. Watch the movie again- how many times does Woody save Bo Peep? None. She helps him when he is falling, she saves his from the dolls at the end, she helps him on to high shelves, she comes up with the plan and even ridicules Woody's plan with Duke Kaboom. Who saves the day in the RV? Jessie with the nail in the tire. And at the end, who becomes sherriff- Jessie?

What does Woody do besides follow Bo Peep around? One scene she even yells at him "I am in charge- you follow me!" What does Buzz do, besides run around like an idiot, doubting his abilities as he listens to his "inner voice".

It just seems like another movie that says "girls are smarter and better than boys so they have all the good ideas". And yes, I realize people are trying to right the wrong of centuries of male empowerment, but if we are to advance as a society, let's boost up women for their strength and intelligence while also accepting the strength and intelligence of men too. It does not, and should not be, either/or.

Rant over...
And yet Woody led the charge to save the RC Racer. Bo along with the others, helped. And Woody saved Bonnie from being lonely by helping to make and continually save Forky. And in the antique shop and the fair grounds, they were in Bo's domain, so, of course she should take lead. And in Bonnie's bedroom, she chose another toy as her favorite, so, of course, that toy should take charge.

And Woody saved Gabby 's loneliness at heroic sacrifice. And Buzz also took charge to try to find and save Woody.

I have no idea why you blinded yourself to all the times a male character had agency just because there was also a strong female lead.
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
And yet Woody led the charge to save the RC Racer. Bo along with the others, helped. And Woody saved Bonnie from being lonely by helping to make and continually save Forky. And in the antique shop and the fair grounds, they were in Bo's domain, so, of course she should take lead. And in Bonnie's bedroom, she chose another toy as her favorite, so, of course, that toy should take charge.

And Woody saved Gabby 's loneliness at heroic sacrifice. And Buzz also took charge to try to find and save Woody.

I have no idea why you blinded yourself to all the times a male character had agency just because there was also a strong female lead.
Yeah, you make some great points. I think the moments where Buzz ran around like an idiot and Bo could do no wrong stood out more to me for some reason. But Woody certainly does take the lead more than I remembered....
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I had a feeling she would be a tad Mary Sue-ish based on her new character design...
:rolleyes:Yeah, Ninja Bo Peep, truly what the world needs now . If she were a Jedi she'd learn the Force in twenty seconds flat because I AM WOMAN blah blah blah. 😴 Yep that was a turnoff to me right away, and the things I've heard about the film since has led me to cancel my plans to see it.

A friend of mine did, and is livid about the ending. Also said that overall it isn't much fun. So yeah, pass.

The film isn't underperforming as such, but its opening weekend is below even Disney's estimates, and it tends to be conservative - it figured $140 million, and the flick is coming in at $123 million. I'd bet a cookie that this is the last film in the franchise. So if Disney is concerned about aged IP and wants to replace it with new - well Toy Story is already old, so what's the logic in replacing Country Bears with it? Seems like a shallow-brained knee-jerk decision, but hey, this is Iger's company now...
 
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MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Original Poster
Yeah, Ninja Bo Peep, truly what the world needs now . If she were a Jedi she'd learn the Force in twenty seconds flat because I AM WOMAN blah blah blah. 😴 Yep that was a turnoff to me right away, and the things I've heard about the film since has led me to cancel my plans to see it.
Oh. Critiquing the film without seeing it.

Nice.
 
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