Tokyo Disneyland Resort Expansion

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Nonja

Active Member
The waltz-dancing final scene looks empty. They should have Animatronics of Maurice and other characters (idk, the Closet for example) so it doesn't feel that poor.

Everything else is amazing. Although a pre-show scene with the "Belle" song would be welcomed.
 
yensidtlaw1969

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
britain said:
So I find it to be a new inventive form of theater first, ride second. Granted, we aren't feeling the spinning and the tipping by watching the video. That would definitely influence a legitimate in-person review.
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I have long felt that the success of Disneyland as an experiment was that it is secretly theatre and not cinema. Part of the stumbling of the company today is that they misunderstand Disney Parks to be foundationally a cinematic experience - that the concept was the park being Walt Disney's walkable, liveable, in-person answer to Hollywood. In truth, I think the park was Walt Disney's walkable, liveable, in-person answer to Broadway, whether he knew it or not. That Music drives so much of the enterprise speaks to this - that the world seems to be bursting with song is much more a theatrical convention than a cinematic one. This too is part of why people get so fed up with "screenz" - because they are not Theatre, they are Cinema crammed in where it doesn't belong. It feels cheap on Broadway too when they replace scenic elements with scenic images on LED panels. You feel cheated of the tangible reality that is at the core of what you came to experience.

It's Theatre built out to it's eventual, seemingly unachievable end - the sets are fully enveloping, the environs fully explorable and populated with characters who can interact with you and never break character. This is not the endgame of film - 360 degree sets do not make a film more immersive and generally do not serve production, and even if they did the screen still separates us as the audience in a way that once broken brings us instead into the world of Theatre.

Tell me Pirates isn't simply a fully custom Broadway Theater filled with stage sets, a repertory cast, and seats that instead propel you through the action as all the performed and designed elements conspire to meditate on a theme. Film doesn't move this way - you have to keep the story going. How forced does it feel when a ride tries to move us along with a linear story as it unfolds? Wheras, Theatre is much more an experiential medium. You're entering a space to encounter people and objects that can offer a story but also immutably offer an experience.

That's half the draw of going to the theater, the shared experience you partake in with the cast and the rest of the audience. Pirates of the Caribbean is practically a concept musical that paints in shades of piratical being and ephemera conspiring to no direct plot-based end, instead proposing merely "consider this; take it all in and be entertained". The Haunted Mansion gives you almost no names for any of the ghosts within the context of the ride itself, and none outside the Ghost Host make any recurring appearances like a film would need - and yet by the end you walk out loving more than a few of the characters you've encountered.

Live-action Film generally calls for a level of Cinematic Realness - Animation is not beholden to this, and neither is Theatre. Putting those two together in space is a natural and exciting conclusion. No one ever laments that the architectual stylings of It's A Small World aren't realistic enough - that they aren't is one of their great successes. Theatre is an expressionistic medium. I would say, at it's best, so too is Disneyland. Adventures Thru Inner Space would never, ever pass the bar for Cinematic Realness, and yet it's murky theatricality still haunts to this day. That such theatricality strikes guests as an asset and not a liability is telling.

Another gift of Theater not as present in Film is the magic of Illusion vs Illustration. A movie can show you something happening that doesn't appear to be possible, and sometimes very convincingly, but ultimately the gulf between reality and film is wide enough to account for these efforts - you know it's a trick, but it's rare that its means of accomplishment are truly inconceivable. This has only grown to be more true in the advent of CGI, and certainly there are some great film tricks - Walt Disney gave us more than a few of the greats. But there's something that happens when you see something impossible happen in the space that you're sharing in - you still know it's a trick, but that you've been successfully tricked despite the removal of the gap film gives you makes the air crackle and your heart flutter. It's much, much tricker to fool the eye in person than it is on screen, and there's a primal joy we feel when it happens that film doesn't tickle. Theatre is built on tickling that nerve, as is Disneyland.

I do think that's why Walt dove so deep into this venture - it offered the chance to do things Film simply could not, but are inherent in Theatre. Part of the joy of Theatre is that it's different every night - Disneyland offers that joy. It is re-shapeable like Theatre - you simply re-rehearse (or re-program) the Actors to accommodate the change of script. Or you start rehearsing a new play entirely. Film is locked in once it's in the can. Which I've been meaning to remind George Lucas.

I bring this up to say that I think part of what's interesting about this new Beauty and the Beast attraction is that it does happen to sort of walk this line in a new way, though I'd still argue the impluses of the designers are still a little too cinematic for their own good. That they give you the space to experience essentially full musical numbers in-situ and choreograph your vehicle is very Theatrical. That they realize these events in a modified "photorealistic" environment and with pretty rigorous fidelity to the source material in music, scenery, and progression of plot points (if not the pacing of them) errs on the Cinematic side. I would have loved to see them break through that wall - the Beast's Transformation appears to do that BEAUTIFULLY, but do we really then need to turn and see LCD screens of the Beast's Castle transforming outside? Build a diorama outside the window and projection map it - at least THEN it's Theatre.

Hopefully they'll figure this out and get back on board - I really think that's one of the foundational differences between the first generation and the current generation. They were Filmmakers by trade, but they were creating a new form of Theatre.
 
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PerceptiveCoot

Member
yensidtlaw1969 said:
Pirates of the Caribbean is practically a concept musical that paints in shades of piratical being and ephemera conspiring to no direct plot-based end, instead proposing merely "consider this; take it all in and be entertained".
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This is probably the best summation of what was great about the older rides. I think this is why I sometimes end up liking the queues of modern rides better than the rides themselves. There's a much more concerted effort in queues to not direct your attention to specific elements.
 
Brer Oswald

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
Meh. It looks okay. Technically impressive. Although I’m not a huge fan of the “dance around the room” type dark rides you see with these trackless rides. At least with Pooh’s Hunny Hunt, you have the beautiful forest you explore, a Tigger segment, and then your Heffalump dance room. Same thing with Mickey. Some adventurous show scenes, and one dance room.

But the animatronics look incredible.
 
BayouShack

BayouShack

Well-Known Member
It feels like they took the Beauty and the Beast AA show intended for DLP and turned it into a ride through attraction. Agree that it’s a theatrical experience. Also agree that it feels like one of those giant EPCOT rides of old. I’m also reminded of the Carousel of Progress.

It feels very unique, and hard to compare to a regular dark ride. The most “dark ride-y”part, between “There’s Something There” and the Ballroom, feels like it was included out of necessity to get you from before to after the transformation.

I want to like it, and I’d need to ride it in person to judge it.

It is very ambitious.

To me, it feels like the Carousel of Progress more than anything.

Also... the fact that this ride is just one piece of a Wizarding World of Harry Potter style land themed to Beauty and the Beast is so crazy to me. I get that people are surprised that there is no “Belle” or “Gaston” songs, but those movements are covered in the village before the castle.

You have to move through the entire land for the full experience. From Belle’s Cottage, to the village, to Gaston’s Tavern, through the woods and past the carriage that the Beast tosses Maurice into, across the foggy ravine into the castle. I couldn’t resist watching the video, but I did hold off on the queue and preshow. But I do know there are more animatronics there.

My point is, the entire land comprises one cohesive experience. The ride through only covers a small portion of the film.
 
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ThemeParkTraveller

ThemeParkTraveller

Well-Known Member
While undoubtedly a next-generation E-ticket dark ride, it does feel very different from all the other trackless attractions so far. I'm sure it will grow on me once I ride it in person, but I also share all the criticisms brought up by other posters. The pacing seems off, spending too long in certain scenes (Something There) while whizzing by others (the Mob Song and final battle). This contributes to certain rooms feeling too vast and barren. Whereas a traditional dark ride would have you in and out of each scene usually well under 30 seconds, guests spend close to 2 minutes on average in the major show scenes here. There isn't enough eye candy or other details to take in given how long the vehicles stay in each room.

However, I do have to give them credit for actually making guests feel like they are participants in each of the musical numbers rather than just observers. That unique selling point may just offset some of the faults I have just watching the video. In any case, the bar is still set very high for the rest of the attractions to follow in Fantasy Springs.
 
Markiewong

Markiewong

Well-Known Member
britain said:
Seems like all the Japanese’ rave reviews of Pooh’s Hunny Hunt and the ‘dancing’ during Hephalumps scene had a big influence on this attraction.

But even Pooh dispatches you out and brings you in one pot at a time. RotR two at a time, and Mystic Manor / MMRR four at a time. Beast does four also, but the pacing... it’s not bad, but it’s not what we’re expecting.
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They actually dispatch six vehicles with each one sitting 10 people. It really is a hybrid of a theater show and darkride and I find it interesting that the Japanese chose for this kind of darkride versus ROTR. Both very storytelling heavy attractions, but with a different cultural flavour.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
It's frustrating that non-Disney properties like Avatar, Marvel and Star Wars all get rides with original narratives in their worlds, but for in house content it's mostly book reports. As if an experiential ride through the Beast's castle would not be interesting enough (I disagree).

Contrast this with Magic Lamp Theater at DisneySea next door. That's a show that builds on the Aladdin movie instead of repeating it.
 
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lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
The biggest compliment you can give the ride is that it's vastly superior to the one it replaced, but the Speedway set the bar low.
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In a way that it replaced the Speedway is knock against it for me. Not because the Speedway was lost but because part Tomorrowland was lost for more Fantasyland while even more Fantasyland is being glommed onto Tokyo DisneySEA.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
In a way that it replaced the Speedway is knock against it for me. Not because the Speedway was lost but because part Tomorrowland was lost for more Fantasyland while even more Fantasyland is being glommed onto Tokyo DisneySEA.
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Tomorrowland isn't "Disney" enough anymore. That's why it needs Monsters Inc., Stitch, Buzz Lightyear etc. :rolleyes:
 
gerarar

gerarar

Premium Member
Something people seem to be missing about the “Something There” segment is that there might actually be a holding loop happening at the end. If you watch it back, Belle stops singing around 11:13, in which instrumental music plays. The teacups stop moving also and just pivot/seesaw in place. Once they resume moving around 11:47, the singing picks up with the other characters.

Therefore, this all happened because of an unloading issue which triggered said holding loop. ROTR has plenty of them integrated throughout each scene, MMRR too. Almost 30+ seconds were used up here of just plain instrumental music in between singing/transitioning, just to keep the teacups in place momentarily.

11:13 holding loop starts
11:47 holding loop stops, vehicles resume moving and music gets a big brash and singing resumes
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
It's frustrating that non-Disney properties like Avatar, Marvel and Star Wars all get rides with original narratives in their worlds, but for in house content it's mostly book reports. As if an experiential ride through the Beast's castle would not be interesting enough (I disagree).

Contrast this with Magic Lamp Theater at DisneySea next door. That's a show that builds on the Aladdin movie instead of repeating it.
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I think most (most, not all) classic Disney animated movies do not have worlds built to explore beyond the confines of the movie itself. Their worlds are created and exist solely to tell the specific story of the movie; there's really nothing else to them. They have no depth. That's very much not the case for any of the other three properties you mentioned.

Not that that's surprising, of course. They're mainly fairy tales, and that's inherent to the story format.
 

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