Tokyo Disneyland Resort Expansion

[sedati]

It does seem a bit redundant to have almost identically themed attractions in both parks, but I have a feeling that Peter Pan's Flight won't survive the next phase of expansions at TDL. After the Beauty and the Beast area opens, there will be a very stark contrast between that elaborately themed section and the old Fantasyland (specifically the cheap carnival tent facades). The renovation of this entire area was initially planned for this upcoming phase but has been postponed until further notice. When that does eventually happen, I can see them removing all traces of Peter Pan from Fantasyland (not including it's a small world).

Hopefully, they’ll fit in that Alice ride that had been proposed.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Hopefully, they’ll fit in that Alice ride that had been proposed.

i wish we had some specifics of what that Alice area / attraction would have been.

The most deserving film for a modern trackless dark ride

 

[Jose]

Which other IPs do they have in mind for the New Fantasyland?

 

[PiratesMansion]

Why is everyone assuming the imminent demise of Peter Pan's Flight?

WDW has a Nemo ride and show AND a Little Mermaid ride and show. Disneyland has a Little Mermaid ride, features the characters and songs in parades and fireworks, and until recently had a restaurant dedicated to her. But shows, restaurants, and spectaculars are different, you say! Fair enough. Universal Orlando has two elaborate Harry Potter attractions in two different parks without them being terribly redundant. Until very recently, the Lion King had two shows in two different parks simultaneously, and at one point, there were THREE shows in three parks!

Kilimanjaro Safaris did not lead to the demise of the superficially similar Jungle Cruise.

Likewise, I'd be shocked if Disneyland really and truly closed Star Tours and never did Hyperspace Mountain ever again just because Galaxy's Edge opens. Yeah, they said it's temporary. Red Rose Tavern, Mickey's Birthdayland, and the Little Mermaid show were all supposed to be temporary, yet they remain. Past precedent indicates it is fairly likely they'll stick around.

In addition, they JUST spent the money a few years ago to refresh it fairly significantly. I'd bet good money that it's not going anywhere.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Why is everyone assuming the imminent demise of Peter Pan's Flight?

People are just going by the short description they gave of the ride. It sounds like it’ll be a very similar premise to PPF.

Of course, this might not be the case, and we could end up with 2 completely different rides at the 2 parks.

But knowing Tokyo, i can see them taking this opportunity to finally give Peter Pan a modern ride with better capacity, longer duration and better effects in TDS, while using PPF building for something else unique to their resort.

(Every resort should be so lucky)

 

[jaxonp]

In TDR we trust.

 

[Jose]

In TDR we trust.

AMEN

 

[BrianLo]

Why is everyone assuming the imminent demise of Peter Pan's Flight?

WDW has a Nemo ride and show AND a Little Mermaid ride and show. Disneyland has a Little Mermaid ride, features the characters and songs in parades and fireworks, and until recently had a restaurant dedicated to her. But shows, restaurants, and spectaculars are different, you say! Fair enough. Universal Orlando has two elaborate Harry Potter attractions in two different parks without them being terribly redundant. Until very recently, the Lion King had two shows in two different parks simultaneously, and at one point, there were THREE shows in three parks!

Kilimanjaro Safaris did not lead to the demise of the superficially similar Jungle Cruise.

Likewise, I'd be shocked if Disneyland really and truly closed Star Tours and never did Hyperspace Mountain ever again just because Galaxy's Edge opens. Yeah, they said it's temporary. Red Rose Tavern, Mickey's Birthdayland, and the Little Mermaid show were all supposed to be temporary, yet they remain. Past precedent indicates it is fairly likely they'll stick around.

In addition, they JUST spent the money a few years ago to refresh it fairly significantly. I'd bet good money that it's not going anywhere.

I don’t know how great those examples are. Most of them are shows with a ride or something like Potter that very obviously was designed to be a whole package with even an inter park transport to link them.

From a fantasyland context something like snow whites scary adventure immediately gave way to SDMT. An actual better example for you of two rides that are sort of redundant co-existing are Buzz Astro Blasters and Toy Story (Midway) Mania.

Of course it could easily stay until the end of time, we don’t know. I think the thought process is that this gives them the ability to remove it if they want to. Which wouldn’t even likely be until after they open this expansion so I really don’t think ‘we spent a bunch of money refurbing this ten years ago’ will factor by that stage. Sort of like Star Tours, we expect eventually it is going to go. Eventually being the Tomorrowland refurb date for DL between now and who the heck knows.

 

[brb1006]

In TDR we trust.

This needs to become a thing on this site.

 

[britain]

Why is everyone assuming the imminent demise of Peter Pan's Flight?

WDW has a Nemo ride and show AND a Little Mermaid ride and show. Disneyland has a Little Mermaid ride, features the characters and songs in parades and fireworks, and until recently had a restaurant dedicated to her. But shows, restaurants, and spectaculars are different, you say! Fair enough. Universal Orlando has two elaborate Harry Potter attractions in two different parks without them being terribly redundant. Until very recently, the Lion King had two shows in two different parks simultaneously, and at one point, there were THREE shows in three parks!

Kilimanjaro Safaris did not lead to the demise of the superficially similar Jungle Cruise.

Likewise, I'd be shocked if Disneyland really and truly closed Star Tours and never did Hyperspace Mountain ever again just because Galaxy's Edge opens. Yeah, they said it's temporary. Red Rose Tavern, Mickey's Birthdayland, and the Little Mermaid show were all supposed to be temporary, yet they remain. Past precedent indicates it is fairly likely they'll stick around.

In addition, they JUST spent the money a few years ago to refresh it fairly significantly. I'd bet good money that it's not going anywhere.

If there's enough differentiation then sure, PPF will probably stay. I don't think the new land would accommodate any 'flying over London' storyline, so that looks to be PPF exclusive.

Having said all that, after the new Neverland is open, 5 or 10 years down the line, IF there's some new fantasy IP that would work well in PPF's spot, I could see them justify replacing it.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Having said all that, after the new Neverland is open, 5 or 10 years down the line, IF there's some new fantasy IP that would work well in PPF's spot, I could see them justify replacing it.

Given the popularity of Alice in Wonderland in Japan, I expect that will be the IP of choice for the next phase of Fantasyland. The original expansion plans even officially announced an Alice mini-land that would open together with the Beauty and the Beast mini-land. But those plans hinged on the relocation of it's a small world to Tomorrowland so that Alice could take its newly cleared space. This never ended up happening as they chose merely to refurbish the attraction instead of rebuilding it in another location.

There really isn't any expansion space left in the existing Fantasyland without knocking out some of the classic opening day attractions, but I don't think Japan is particularly sentimental towards these relics anyways. Outside the original Disneyland, I don't feel it would be sacrilegious to replace the Walt-era attractions with more modern renditions.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

I haven't been following the construction progress too closely, but does anybody know whether Soarin' at TDS will have 2 or 3 theaters (from the size of the completed show building so far)? Their 2-tracked Toy Story Mania was woefully unequipped to deal with the massive crowds when it first opened, resulting in waits of up to 6.5+ hours and Fastpass running out within 30 minutes of park opening.

 

[Robbiem]

Is there enough room in the PPF building for a modern quality dark ride or would it be too small for what people expect? I’d be fine with Pan, snow white and the shops and restaurants in that part of the park to be replaced with one quality dark ride, ideally either a modern version of alice or snow white with Tokyo quality. Id also be happy with Pinnoccio and philamagic going if it means we get a new modern dark ride in their place. If these were high quality attractive on the scale of pooh or the new beauty and the beast ride you would have an absolutely amazing fantasyland

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Is there enough room in the PPF building for a modern quality dark ride or would it be too small for what people expect? I’d be fine with Pan, snow white and the shops and restaurants in that part of the park to be replaced with one quality dark ride, ideally either a modern version of alice or snow white with Tokyo quality. Id also be happy with Pinnoccio and philamagic going if it means we get a new modern dark ride in their place. If these were high quality attractive on the scale of pooh or the new beauty and the beast ride you would have an absolutely amazing fantasyland

For comparison, Pooh's Hunny Hunt has a show building about the same size (or slightly bigger) as the combined space of both Peter Pan's Flight and Snow White's Adventures. But there is also the extended queue and necessary placemaking around the attraction to consider since the classic dark rides are very barebones in this regard. I would fully support the trade you described, which would solidly place TDL in the running for best Fantasyland (it already will be attractions-wise but is lacking cohesion and charm in several areas).

 

[jaxonp]

For comparison, Pooh's Hunny Hunt has a show building about the same size (or slightly bigger) as the combined space of both Peter Pan's Flight and Snow White's Adventures. But there is also the extended queue and necessary placemaking around the attraction to consider since the classic dark rides are very barebones in this regard. I would fully support the trade you described, which would solidly place TDL in the running for best Fantasyland (it already will be attractions-wise but is lacking cohesion and charm in several areas).

The look of FL Needs work... it might be the worst looking of the castle parks or close to Shanghai’s IMO. TDL color concrete is so awful.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

The look of FL Needs work... it might be the worst looking of the castle parks or close to Shanghai’s IMO. TDL color concrete is so awful.

I wholeheartedly agree, and this goes for some of the other lands at TDL too like Adventureland, Tomorrowland, and Westernland. They all look barren and monotonous with the same colored concrete running through the entire land. They really need to mix it up with different themed pavement, preferably several styles of pavement per land. The Beauty and the Beast area is huge step in the right direction. They just need to apply that level of theming to the rest of the land in a future renovation.

 

[jaxonp]

I wholeheartedly agree, and this goes for some of the other lands at TDL too like Adventureland, Tomorrowland, and Westernland. They all look barren and monotonous with the same colored concrete running through the entire land. They really need to mix it up with different themed pavement, preferably several styles of pavement per land. The Beauty and the Beast area is huge step in the right direction. They just need to apply that level of theming to the rest of the land in a future renovation.

TDS doesn’t have this issue but DL does. It’s like they ran out of money for the concrete work. I’m sure they’ll get around to it one day.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

TDS doesn’t have this issue but DL does. It’s like they ran out of money for the concrete work. I’m sure they’ll get around to it one day.

I noticed the newer lands at TDL like Critter Country and Toontown also don't have this issue, as both feature themed pavement. It appears to be a decision made during the initial design and construction of TDL. I read they were very concerned about capacity and guest flow (this being the first Disney park outside the U.S.), and I guess using that smooth concrete to pave the whole park was seen as the safest option (zero tripping hazard and easy to maintain).

 

[DDLand]

@WDW1974 once described the then massive expanse of land that would become Star Wars Land and the new Rivers of America as a "tumor" growing on the back of the park. There can be no more succinct description of this new "port."

But before I talk about my feelings about this project, I want to talk about Tokyo Disney Sea...

By the early 1990s EPCOT Center had launched and been built out to its fullest. It was a success and paved the way for thousands of hotel rooms, new gated attractions, and putting Orlando on the map.

But it wasn't perfect.

In its development, it radically departed from its predecessors Disneyland and Magic Kingdom. It was a complete rethink of what a theme park could be. Like any radical rethink of an existing entity or product, sometimes there will be misses. But for the most part, EPCOT Center was a triumph. But Imagineering wasn't finished yet. Many of the younger stars of the EPCOT Center project were wanting their own shot at new parks. Ultimately, 4 radical new parks were proposed. Disney's Wild Animal Kingdom, Disney Sea, Disney's America, and Westcot. These parks were going to be the merging of the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center concepts. Taking the edutainment ideas and blending them with much more immersive environments and stories. Instead of a pavilion celebrating a country, they would simply take you straight into the country. It would be more about feelings and story, and little less about straight science and history, but they would still carry the purposeful education mission at their cores.

Only one of those parks made it out of the development inferno; the newly renamed Disney's Animal Kingdom opened in 1998 (though that park would suffer for nearly 20 years because of the chronic lack of investment at its beginning). Luckily something magical happened. The Oriental Land Company decided to trade in their lackluster "Studio Park," for a more ambitious concept. Off they went with Tokyo Disney Sea. An undisputed hit from day one, it carried the same educational boldness as EPCOT Center with more of a story conscious Magic Kingdom style delivery to major success. Up until a few years ago, things had been smooth sailing (hah), but recently it has become apparent that expansion is necessary. Tokyo Disney SEA was built with Expansion in mind. With two ride spots in the New York section of the park (one for Tower of Terror and another for a dark ride taking you into a high speed chase between gangsters and the police [think Mr Toad's Wild Ride Sans the the Toad]), a plot between Lost River Delta (which would become Raging Spirits and Jasmine's Flying Carpets), a spot in Mediterranean Harbor (Soarin'- Coming Soon!), and a spot for a whole new Port between Port Discovery and Lost River Delta (Scandinavia!).

But now with many of the Expansion Pads already utilized, Disney is pushing outward:

Behold the "tumor!"

Tokyo Disney Sea has core themes. Themes are not decorations. For example, you cannot theme a place to Toy Story. You cannot theme something to the jungle. You cannot theme a land to Tangled, Frozen, and Peter Pan. Themes are the core messages that an artistic expression is trying to convey. A theme of Toy Story the movie is the power of friendship. The toys are not a theme, but instead a story device to get the theme across to the audience. A theme of the Jurassic Movie Franchise (hahahahaha) is nature's ability to overcome hurdles and overpower the plans of man. Isla Nublar is not a theme, but a setting. A place where the characters have a chance to communicate that theme to the audience.

Themes of Tokyo Disney Sea are not New York, Italy, Mysterious Island, or Arabian Coast. Here's a few:

1) Man's Curiosity and Drive to Explore the Seas- Fortress Explorations, Submarines, Sinbad, and the Little Mermaid areas capture this theme.

2) The Seas connect people for good and for bad- The beautiful transition from Mediterranean Harbor to American Waterfront encapsulates this perfectly. You can feel the DNA of Italy seeping into the City, and see the natural progression of things. One of my favorite details is a billboard for Zamboni Brother's Products in America, a nod to the restaurant just a short distance away. This underscores the fact that they likely immigrated to America and have started a new life! What a small but genius detail. Once again Sinbad reminds us of this truth. Oh, and let us not forget Tower of Terror and Indiana Jones's conflicts. In each case American Explorers seek out objects of great importance to native cultures, and in turn are punished. Sometimes it might be best to leave things be!

3) The Seas are a way of life and development for many cultures- American Waterfront, Mediterranean Harbor, Arabian Coast.

4) Man's attempts to explore and tame nature will almost always end up poorly...- Journey to the Center of the Earth, Submarines, Storm Rider

5) Talking Toys... That travesty.

We'll stick with the first four. Those themes are powerful and educational. They empower the guest to think and learn. They also opened the door for some of the most unique and exciting attractions ever to exist.

But this Port isn't about any of those themes. Instead we have a magical spring popping up out of the ground and causing a whole bunch of random Disney Franchises to come into existence (you can learn more about this magical story in the ground floor gift shop of the Hotel!). Let's get this out of the way. The story is terrible. They should have owned the fact they were doing this, instead of trying to make some convoluted backstory. Very ham handed of them, and it frankly just sounds stupid. It also doesn't match any of the themes of the park. The closest might be the Peter Pan Attraction and land. It also doesn't match the more serious and educational tone of the park. More than powerful themes, painstaking recreations of actual places in the past were brought to the park so guests could really know what it was like to go to a Spanish Fortress. Really learn about New York life. Go to Italy. Etc. It might sound idealistic, but that's what the park creators were doing! This is the next EPCOT Center, and 20 years later OLC is watering it down. What a shame.

Can we also talk about this Hotel...

Welcome to Las Vegas! Or perhaps more suitably Macao. Everyone who though Coronado Springs was bad... Ha, that's nothing. Welcome to the ugly hotel that doesn't tell any story next to one of the best executed theme parks in the world. It's a horror. This is the same park with MiraCosta for crying out loud! The visual intrusion into the various parts of the lands will cheapen the experience of the average park goer. It's unfair to the 99% of guests not staying inside the hotel. Also, did I mention it's UGLY?

Now it's not all bad. I'm sure the lands will be well executed and the rides amazing. OLC knows what DISNEY is (hint, it ain't Star Wars and Marvel or any flashy acquisition Bob is looking at next). They happened to pick three of my favorite Disney Animated Movies (I know I know, Frozen is over rated blah blah blah). Seeing a land without budget compromises is going to be awesome!

But imagine what the Imagineers could have done without the constraints of existing franchises. Imagine the Sinbads, Journey to the Center of the Earths, and Tower of Terrors we just lost for movie recap rides. What a terrible shame. This park is crumbling.

I'm looking forward to visiting, but I wish this didn't have to be soulless and themeless. Also, I'm not staying at that hotel anytime soon...

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

The MiraCosta is a masterpiece of Imagineering, but WDI hasn't designed a beautiful and thematically congruent hotel facade since the HKDL Hotel in 2005. Looking at Disney hotels built over the past decade, they all seem boring and blocky to me (with only the roofs being adequately themed). I understand they're going for a fantasy palace look here, but hopefully a more thematically appropriate design is chosen in the end.