The Redhead is changing....

freediverdude

Well-Known Member
It's time to close this ride.
I actually agree. If they're just going to eliminate the scenes one by one until the attraction is just a cheesy toddler ride, they might as well just close it, and possibly build a whole new one that is focused only on the movies.

Next they'll change the dunking scene because it's torture, then the drunk scene because that's not a good role model, then the balancing with the boat scene because they don't want kids to try that at home, etc. If you want to get rid of it, just get rid of it. Pirates did things that wouldn't be acceptable today, that's just the way it was. Having a redhead in a fancy dress doing the auction for physical items likely goes against what would have been the norm for a pirate, so this is actually changing history. I would rather they just closed it if they feel it isnt acceptable to show anymore.
 

Sonic Sunglasses

Well-Known Member
There used to be consequences. Now we just pass Jack Sparrow toasting piracy and it's many shiny rewards and if the grotto in Paris is being changed to having living un-dead Pirates then the morality tale in place over there goes out the window.
You keep going on about consequences. What consequences would you have shown to educate impressionable young minds? The beheading of Blackbeard? Molten gold being poured down L'Ollonais' throat? Bartholomew Roberts being eviscerated by a cannonball? William Kidd kicking and twitching his last gasps at the end of a rope? Better yet, rotting away in a gibbet? Roc Brasiliano becoming Roc Barbecue? Or just let the kiddies have a bit of fun, knowing they'll be distracted by the first shiny thing they see next?

I'd rather they come out of the ride inquisitive, wanting to learn about the era. Not dissuaded. Trust me, there are plenty of authors like myself ready to teach them about how brutal the life of a pirate could be. I don't pull punches, ever.
 
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tirian

Well-Known Member
Oh no, I get it. The scene is "funny" because a fat woman, a woman with buck teeth, and a others who are outside the conventional 1960s ideas of desirability and suitability for marriage are pleased to find themselves abducted and sold as sex slaves because at least this will mean they can finally be in a relationship with a man, any man. Adding to the hilarity is the fact that the pirates who have gathered to buy these women as chattel still aren't interested in the fat one because she's too fat. So fat, in fact, that the auctioneer points out that she is in fact "corn-fed," like a cow.
It's a good thing you're here to explain why everyone should have the same opinion as you.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
You keep going on about consequences. What consequences would you have shown to educate impressionable young minds? The beheading of Blackbeard? Molten gold being poured down L'Ollonais' throat? Bartholomew Roberts being eviscerated by a cannonball? William Kidd kicking and twitching his last gasps at the end of a rope? Better yet, rotting away in a gibbet? Roc Brasiliano becoming Roc Barbecue? Or just let the kiddies have a bit of fun, knowing they'll be distracted by the first shiny thing they see next?

I'd rather they come out of the ride inquisitive, wanting to learn about the era. Not dissuaded. Trust me, there are plenty of authors like myself ready to teach them about how brutal the life of a pirate could be. I don't pull punches, ever.
Between 1997 and 2006 in the Disneyland Version and in the original Paris version you actually saw what ultimately became of the pirates. The scene at Disneyland in 2006 was removed to make room for "Great Moments with Mr. Sparrow." and the DLP version is supposedly changing the pirates in the grotto from actually dead to living dead. I do think there is something morally objectionable about how the public perception of pirates has gone from villains to anti-heroes and I think that is one of the primary reasons this change is happening.
 

Sonic Sunglasses

Well-Known Member
Between 1997 and 2006 in the Disneyland Version and in the original Paris version you actually saw what ultimately became of the pirates. The scene at Disneyland in 2006 was removed to make room for "Great Moments with Mr. Sparrow." and the DLP version is supposedly changing the pirates in the grotto from actually dead to living dead. I do think there is something morally objectionable about how the public perception of pirates has gone from villains to anti-heroes and I think that is one of the primary reasons this change is happening.
I hate to break it to you, but pirates have been romanticised by Western civilisation for over 400 years. Disney is but one of many in a very, very long line of entities making hay off it. You'll have to try harder.
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
I very much will agree its a well known ride. I had family who visited MK for the first time last year and its the first thing they wanted to ride. I never said it wasn't well know, I just said I personally do not find it to be iconic. If you're going to engage with me, learn to read. Otherwise you're just a poster bereft of thought.
I definitely consider it iconic. Really surprised to see someone question that. Especially since the reason behind it coming to WDW was because guests called for it. They expected it to be there and it wasn't. It's a Disney Parks classic.

What would you consider an iconic attraction just for reference? Want to see where you are coming from
 

Sonic Sunglasses

Well-Known Member
There was NO gender equality in the time of pirates.
Mary Read and Anne Bonny. They fought tooth and nail while the men lay drunk. Anne Bonny's last words to Jack Rackham? "Had you fought like a man, you need not be hang'd like a dog."
Ching Shih. She worked her way up from being a prostitute to become the most powerful pirate in history, commanding over three hundred pirate ships and nearly forty-thousand men.
Grace O'Malley, the Pirate Queen of Ireland and chieftain of the Ó Máille clan. Hero of the Nine Years War, commander of an entire fleet of pirate ships that brought shipping in and around England to its knees.

Yeah. Not one scrap of gender equality to be found. Try again.
 
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kevlightyear

Well-Known Member
It's well over 600 posts and we've seen everyone's opinions about rape, human trafficking, violence etc. but I still can't figure out why pirates are holding a "Loot Auction" when they could just go out and steal it.
Here's my thought...
Maybe the pirates have no use for grandfather clocks and such, all they need is money/gold. So, to have a little more fun, they're forcing the townspeople to turn over their stuff, then auction it back to them? Ya know, a "We could take all this stuff if we wanted to, but we're going to do you a favor and sell it back to you" kind of thing. Maybe?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Actually, I disagree with this being "well thought out." It sounds more like a desperate attempt to "fix" this scene and make it more socially acceptable. Walt was all about IMPROVING things, not change for the sake of change. Also, I disagree with your first paragraph, they could preserve this scene and continue to maintain/upgrade the show elements. For example, the auctioneer could be replaced/upgraded to an A100 AA and still keep the same script, but become more visually impressive - THAT would be more consistent with Walt's ideas. Ultimately, Walt was about pushing the envelope and finding a new way to WOW his audience.
The Auctioneer at Disneyland has long served as a test-bed for new animatronic technology, continuously being updated over the years.

Also again - removal of the scene aside, the new scene is monumentally stupid and adds nothing to the ride. Sklar's comments would have a lot more weight if the addition wasn't so poorly thought out.
This is the same Marty Sklar who said Al Lutz was a liar and “it’s a small world” was not being changed.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
It's well over 600 posts and we've seen everyone's opinions about rape, human trafficking, violence etc. but I still can't figure out why pirates are holding a "Loot Auction" when they could just go out and steal it.
Same as with the brides- some pirates got to the "good stuff" before the others and are now trying to offload some of the choice treasure to other pirates before destroying the town.
 
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