The Park Formerly Known as Disney's Hollywood Studios? Yep ...

[doctornick]

DHS should strive to be good before it is great. Great would require $3-3.5 billion of reworking, 6-7 more high-caliber rides, updates everywhere, cohesive lands, etc.

I agree. DHS at this point needs to progress to the point where it is "good" -- a solid compliment to the other parks at WDW -- before worrying about being "great". It needs a lot of work to even get to a point where it is acceptable.

IMHO, DAK -- while arguably suffering from the same "lack of attractions" issue as DHS -- is much closer to being "great" because the overall theming and cohesiveness of the park is top notch. Its real issue is simply that he needs more stuff to do. But because of that, you make DAK a "complete" park for far less money than DHS needs. They are supposedly spending about $700-800M on Pandora and Rivers of Light and general improvements like lighting (and maybe moving FOTLK). If they spent another $500-700M or so beyond that on a few more rides, then it could achieve the "great" level that we'd all want.

 

[LouP]

Food for thought... going back to the drawing board, if the imagineers were going for "the Hollywood that never was" why did they choose the replicate an already existing theater. Why not build an entirely new art deco old timey Hollywood theater and then make it a Disney original. Get me an imagineer circa 1985!!!!!

This is all about an Imagineering technique known as "heightened reality." According to Imagineer Alex Wright in "The Imagineering Field Guide to Disneyland," heightened reality is

"a design technique used to invoke feelings of nostalgia while taking some license with history. Heightened reality is a staple of the Imagineering toolbox, giving us the artistic license to play more directly with our Guest's emotional attachments to certain memories and design details rather than maintaining a strict adherence to absolute authenticity in those details."​

Take Care,

Lou Prosperi

 

[CentralFLlife]

I think we are being pretty generous with the E ticket moniker, is FearFall really an E ticket?

 

[danlb_2000]

I would also think that RSR would be redundant with Test Track just a boat ride away

So do you think building Pirates of the Caribbean in MK was redundant since they already had Small World?

 

[misterID]

TDO won't be giving us anything. They have no say either way.

I don't see more than 3 D/E tickets with this expansion, but its possible they go E-ticket for SW and 2 Ds for Pixar.

I have a feeling the Pixar expansion could be pretty significant. I don't see a RSR ride, even a scaled down version, being a D dark ride. I would be shocked if it was. And I would think it would be open way before any SWL ride so an E ride to pimp to the media is needed between those expansions. A monsters D makes sense. But yeah, I agree with the three ride estimate. That TRONcoaster sounds like it's going to be very cool... if it shows up as a rethemed SW ride... that wouldn't hurt my feelings.

 

[mahnamahna101]

I think we are being pretty generous with the E ticket moniker, is FearFall really an E ticket?

I said D/E ticket.

11 vs. 8 (9 if Pixar gets a second major new attraction). But that also doesn't include potential additions to IOA beyond Kong (which will happen at their current pace).

 

[WeLComeHomE OKW]

Take a pill, dude. I've also been criticizing UNI a lot (too many screen-based attractions, not enough family dark rides) and praised Disney for targeting families and their focus on building up AK and DHS. Saying I don't think SWL is going to be a mega expansion everyone is blueskying in their heads isn't exactly spitting in Mickey's eye.

You were comparing Apples to Oranges with TOT and JP, and JP isn't UNIs biggest attraction...I actually praised TOT. It's nice to think SWL will compete with Spiderman and HP... The thing is, UNI has already moved on from those rides. And if you're trying to compete, or catch up, with a competitors ride that's already a decade old... well, that says a lot, doesn't it?

Yes there is A LOT of secret stuff going on at UNI. Yes, Disney seems to be investing (finally) in the two parks that need it most. That's great news. And exciting. Trying to paint me in a negative light because I'm not wearing my Mickey jammies (they're HULK jammies, which is sort of Disney Jammies, right?) is beyond childish... unless you are a kid... then I regret taking your post serious enough to respond. I'm not getting into a "my dad can beat up your dad" argument about "my park is better than your park." I'm rooting for BOTH parks.

I'm not painting you in a negative light. At all. I'm pointing to how your bias was present in your language. I'm not a kid, and your insisting that I need to "take a pill", that i'm "beyond childish", that I'm a "kid". Merely suggests the opposite. I'm sure you're rooting for Disney too, but, even in this post, you're siding with Universal and that's FINE. But, it still speaks volumes about where your arguments are coming from. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but, in this discussion, I'm simply pointing out the obvious.

"well, that says a lot, doesn't it?" exactly.

 

[WeLComeHomE OKW]

IOA
Spider-Man
Hulk
Dr. Doom's Fearfall
Popeye
Dudley Do-Right
Kong
JPRA
FJ
Dragon Challenge
Cat in the Hat

DHS (after the makeover)
GMR
Star Tours
Star Wars E-ticket (unknown)
TSMM
Pixar D/E-ticket (unknown)
ToT
RnRC


I did not include anything rumored. Flat rides, shows, walkthroughs and play areas also are not included.

IOA will have 10 D/E-tickets by 2016. DHS may have 7 by 2020. IOA also isn't finished adding things - there's the plot next to Cat, Lost Continent as a whole, Toon Lagoon's front area, Trikes plot and the underutilized Discovery Center... not saying Disney isn't doing something good. But unless this DHS makeover adds 3 more D/E tickets, it is not equal with IOA.

Quantity is all fine and good. But, when amusement park coasters that are lightly themed like Hulk, Dr Doom's fearfall, and Dragon Challenge, I ain't complaining too much. I have a six flags 30 minutes away. They're fun-no doubt, but, if I wanted that stuff in DHS, I'd be rooting for Disney to bring in Toy Story Playland. Then they'd have at least 3 more rides that match the theming of IoA coasters and we'd just need a couple more mediocre attractions on top of that to compete with cat in the hat/hippogriff/popeye.

 

[LeRaposa]

Still 8 to 11. But IOA is planning to add a nighttime show at some point in the near future (probably alongside Kong's opening) which could be comparable to Fantasmic in a light sense.

DHS needs 7-9 more rides/attractions than there already is.


Cars dark ride - D
Monsters Inc. door coaster - D
Star Wars dark ride using Twister ride system - E

I could live with that as long as GMR gets some love, the BAH is gone and a couple smaller attractions are added as well.



I was using D/E to indicate high-caliber/high theming. IOA is overall a high-quality experience. DHS may become a good park after the makeover, but by then, IOA will have added Kong and I don't see Uni Creative leaving IOA empty-handed until the 2020s.

DHS should strive to be good before it is great. Great would require $3-3.5 billion of reworking, 6-7 more high-caliber rides, updates everywhere, cohesive lands, etc.

Not to mention the fact that by the time DHS has its expansion completed, IOA will have overtaken in attendance. IOA's attendance has been growing rapidly in the past few years. In all likelihood it will be more popular than both Animal Kingdom and DHS in just a few years. It even has a shot at overtaking Epcot. Disney's got a huge problem on their hands. If they're not willing to compete with Universal than they are really quite stupid. I don't understand why it takes Disney so long to build just one ride when Universal is building far more at a much faster rate.

 

[WeLComeHomE OKW]

Well, I don't think - unless you have some insider knowledge that we don't, because every expert I know says it's all up in the air - that we know what the "point" of Star Wars land will be. We don't even know exactly where it will be inside the park or what it would cover. We can make educated guesses - but again, since apparently Disney hasn't even decided yet, it's all still speculation.

That said, I don't disagree that on the west coast, Disney has seen some great stuff. They get little updates all the time to things. Their rides are better kept and simply get more attention. That's why they get my dollars most of the time these days.

That's totally separate than WDW. They are run by different folks, separate budgets, etc. The place where we get an E-ticket once or twice a decade (and even they are often chopped up - Everest). The place where prices and restrictions on how you visit are rising to epic levels, but so little of note has been added and what has been added has been lackluster. And certainly nothing ambitious. So two different beasts, none of my comments are about California, it's all about Florida and how it's been nickel and dimed into the ground.

Nothing from Avatar-land or a possible Star Wars land is going to open for at least three years. When they do have a project, like New Fantasyland (which I believe was needed and a good thing), they take five years to build things when Universal goes from groundbreaking to opening day in a year on attractions and does them with quality.

New Fantasyland was sorely needed - I was a defender of it, even though it took my favorite ride (SWSA - my solace is that the superior version still runs in Disneyland). We had the last place Fantasyland before - it was pathetic. There was nothing to it but a few tin roof rides. I didn't realize this until I went to Disneyland for the first time, then started to look at Fantasylands around the world - we were dead last at the flagship themepark. It desperately needed depth and placemaking. However, it being a construction zone for half a decade to add a restaurant, two new D-tickets, and landscaping was ridiculous. All for financial reasons, not because it was just really hard to do that rockwork.

I'll be optimistic when we have concrete plans and stuff starts going vertical. Until then, as I said, for all we know Star Wars land could be an overpriced restaurant, a Millenium Falcon replica - with a pin stand under it, and a spinner ride with some cheesy gimmick. Do I hope for more? Do I pray for more? Of course. But judging at how Disney is already dragging their feet on it (supposedly waiting to see about Episode VII reaction - when all signs point that it's going to be the film of the decade). And Avatar land - well, someday, when they finish it, as it's still years away - let's hope in spite of picking a turd of a license they come up with some great attractions. I'm more excited about the rumored boat ride than the rumored Soarin 2.0 - but, I guess, at least hopefully the park will finally be open past 5 or 6PM so our tickets have a bit more value (by the hour, AK is the most expensive park - but it offers the least).

I'm reminded of a Carrie Fisher-ism - she defines herself as an "enthusiastic agnostic". That's how I feel here - I can't believe in it because I can't see any clear evidence of it but I would welcome it if it can somehow be proven to me, which, again, will be when stuff starts to go vertical and we aren't waiting until 2020 for it all to open.

Recent developments haven't done much to further any hope - while I am just fine with Frozen going into where it is, and I'm fine with a small ride personally (I like C/D ticket dark rides, we need more of them - though it's a shame we keep trading them 1:1 like we did with SWSA), it certainly doesn't raise hopes that they are putting in a permanent ride based on a film that between grosses and home video and re-releases and album sales and all the assorted merchandising is going to net them a couple billion eventually, that they are doing a 70M refurb vs. building an E-ticket attraction.

I respect this, for sure. I suppose I have some faith that Disney will treat this park re-do with respect and I see John Lasseter's involvement (him visiting the park and getting involved which is featured in that news story from this website) as a positive sign that this project is being taken seriously, and that the right hand's are involved.

I'm not as sold that Universal is as good as everyone says it is now. I went there in August, but it still feels very much in the middle of transition (moving from old stuff to new stuff), which is certainly a step up from DHS (Which feels incomplete, mismanaged, ill-conceived post-opening theming mismatches). The harry potter lands are something to behold, a world treasure for theme parks.

I think the fun is only just beginning, and in 4 years, the competition between Universal and Disney will seem better than ever.

Hey, Disney bought out Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm...why can't they buy out Comcast's construction company? hehe

 

[jharvey]

IOA
Spider-Man
Hulk
Dr. Doom's Fearfall
Popeye
Dudley Do-Right
Kong
JPRA
FJ
Dragon Challenge
Cat in the Hat

DHS (after the makeover)
GMR
Star Tours
Star Wars E-ticket (unknown)
TSMM
Pixar D/E-ticket (unknown)
ToT
RnRC


I did not include anything rumored. Flat rides, shows, walkthroughs and play areas also are not included.

IOA will have 10 D/E-tickets by 2016. DHS may have 7 by 2020. IOA also isn't finished adding things - there's the plot next to Cat, Lost Continent as a whole, Toon Lagoon's front area, Trikes plot and the underutilized Discovery Center... not saying Disney isn't doing something good. But unless this DHS makeover adds 3 more D/E tickets, it is not equal with IOA.

That is if you assume 1 + 1=2. Cat in the Hat or Dudley Do-Right or Popeye is not a 1 for 1 with Star Wars or an expanded Pixar footprint anymore than the 1927 Yankees are worse than a beer league team because the beer league team gets to take the field with 10 players.

 

[misterID]

I'm not painting you in a negative light. At all. I'm pointing to how your bias was present in your language. I'm not a kid, and your insisting that I need to "take a pill", that i'm "beyond childish", that I'm a "kid". Merely suggests the opposite. I'm sure you're rooting for Disney too, but, even in this post, you're siding with Universal and that's FINE. But, it still speaks volumes about where your arguments are coming from. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but, in this discussion, I'm simply pointing out the obvious.

"well, that says a lot, doesn't it?" exactly.

Thank you for the insightful study of my language and the subversive meaning behind it. Since it isn't so obvious, apparently, let me make it easy for you: I'm not siding with anyone, I'm pointing out a fact. My argument is coming from what exactly? I'm a UNI plant? I'm what exactly... what is it that you had to pull up the old Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with that"? If I was a UNI fanboy I wouldn't waste my time here, I'd be on OU... I'm rooting for WDW but I don't sugarcoat my feelings or criticisms. If there's any cynicism in my posts in regards to how WDW works I assure you it doesn't come from rooting against them, or for UNI, it is well deserved and from my own experience and my opinions that a far from biased... if anything, I'm biased for WDW but hold them to the standard they created. When you're catching up to a competitors ride that is a decade old, which is what you're saying they're doing now, then yeah, it does say a lot ... and why I said what I did.

 

[Kman101]

I know Toy Story Playland (not confirmed 100% by anyone as far as I can tell at this point) is not everyone's idea of a great addition, and it's not mine either, but I think DHA/DHS needs those types of rides to absorb some of the crowds. It's a smart addition, IMO, though I'd rather have Bugs Land, but again, I think these types of rides are needed. And if it does come, at least it sounds like we're getting other things and not JUST that. If it was just the Playland and TSMM expansion, then yeah, I'd understand the severe dislike for it supposedly coming. And with TSMM expansion into the next soundstage over, it sort of makes sense to expand on Toy Story by adding the land right next to it where the Backlot queue is (just an assumption on my part).

 

[mahnamahna101]

Quantity is all fine and good. But, when amusement park coasters that are lightly themed like Hulk, Dr Doom's fearfall, and Dragon Challenge, I ain't complaining too much. I have a six flags 30 minutes away. They're fun-no doubt, but, if I wanted that stuff in DHS, I'd be rooting for Disney to bring in Toy Story Playland. Then they'd have at least 3 more rides that match the theming of IoA coasters and we'd just need a couple more mediocre attractions on top of that to compete with cat in the hat/hippogriff/popeye.

That statement makes no sense... TSPL is a couple of kiddie carnival rides. Hulk, Fearfall and Dragon Challenge already surpass their quality with their queues. The ride experiences are all vastly superior to RC Racers or Slinky's Zig-Zag Spin.

And Popeye's got higher quality theming than everything at DHS except ToT. Cat's also leaps and bounds ahead of TSMM in terms of entertainment value.

Hulk takes up minimal space and gives the park some kinetic energy. It's truly a Universal-style weenie. Add some LED lights to the trains and clean up the track... I have no problem with it.

Fearfall should be replaced with something more akin to ToT - an indoor ride experience featuring the Fantastic Four. I'd even enclose Storm Force and add some SFXs. That would make both significantly less carnival-esque.

Dragon Challenge is a waste of space at this point considering they don't duel anymore and the queue has been neutered by the HP theming. I'm all for removing it and putting a Forbidden Forest expansion here:

1. Everest-caliber coaster themed to the Triwizard Tournament (51" height requirement)
2. Ford Anglia suspended dark ride (all-ages)
3. Shrieking Shack walkthrough/show experience (Poseidon's Fury meets Alien Encounter - almost like a mini HHN yearround attraction)
4. Quidditch stunt show
5. expanded Hippogriff family coaster (38" height requirement)

DHS has ToT - only 1 truly great, well-themed high-caliber attraction. Star Tours has a bland facade. RnRC leaves much to be desired in actual ride experience. GMR needs some updates. TSMM is just a couple Wii screens where you shoot at targets, with a wasted queue and Potato Head AA. IOA has Spidey, Popeye (it's one of the best themed and entertaining water rides in the nation), JPRA, FJ, HE, and soon to be Kong. 6 truly great, well-themed high caliber attractions.

You think RSR-lite, a Door coaster and TSPL will make DHS surpass IOA? Keep dreaming...

Not to mention the fact that by the time DHS has its expansion completed, IOA will have overtaken in attendance. IOA's attendance has been growing rapidly in the past few years. In all likelihood it will be more popular than both Animal Kingdom and DHS in just a few years. It even has a shot at overtaking Epcot. Disney's got a huge problem on their hands. If they're not willing to compete with Universal than they are really quite stupid. I don't understand why it takes Disney so long to build just one ride when Universal is building far more at a much faster rate.

I imagine something like this for an attendance increase

2014
USF - 8.2 million
IOA - 8.5 million

2015
USF - 8.9 million
IOA - 9.0 million

2016
USF - 9.2 million
IOA - 9.4 million

2017
USF - 9.6 million
IOA - 9.7 million

2018
USF - 9.8 million
IOA - 10.0 million

2019
USF - 10.1 million
IOA - 10.4 million

2019 is about when a DHS makeover might be finished or close to finished. I expect attendance to decline if Indy, LMA, Backlot Tour, B&TB, Mermaid, American Idol, and Legend of Sparrow are all supposed to be closed by early 2015. Seriously, what are people going to do in that park for more than 2-3 hrs? If you have FP+, TSMM's taken care of. ToT and RnRC are 60 min waits. Muppets and GMR both take an hour combined. Star Tours 20-30 minutes. Every major attraction in 3 hrs. Attendance can't be sustained by "Frozen Summer of Fun" forever.

That is if you assume 1 + 1=2. Cat in the Hat or Dudley Do-Right or Popeye is not a 1 for 1 with Star Wars or an expanded Pixar footprint anymore than the 1927 Yankees are worse than a beer league team because the beer league team gets to take the field with 10 players.

Popeye is up there with Splash Mountain for best water ride in the world... already know RSR-lite and the Monsters Inc door coaster won't compare. It's also about equal with whatever speedbike concept Disney uses for the Star Wars E-ticket.

The only way SWL would surpass Popeye, Dudley and Cat (all three of them) is if there's a family dark ride, lavishly-themed indoor coaster, Milennium Falcon walkthrough, X-Wing spinners, expanded Jedi Training Academy, updated facade for Star Tours, Ewok play area, Jabba's Palace and Mos Eisley Cantina. I don't imagine even half of that will come.

TSMM and Fantasmic aren't 1 for 1 with hardly anything at IOA except maybe Fearfall or Cat. And Star Tours II pales in comparison to Simpsons Ride, DM - Minion Mayhem,. Spidey and Transformers (all better simulator attractions).

So IOA still has the edge... and it's still growing. Dudley will probably be replaced by a lavish E-ticket once the TL rights expire in 2019. JP has been rumored to get a family coaster in recent years (D-ticket). Seuss will get something new eventually. LC was rumored to be replaced by Wonka (including an E-ticket Glass Elevator ride and a D-ticket family boat ride). A dark ride could fit in the front area of TL. A nighttime show is in the works for IOA. DHS is getting 3 D/E tickets at maximum, and that's without budget cuts or finalized plans. IOA will have 11 D/E-tickets in less than two years. Potentially will reach 13-14 over the next decade. DHS will take 15-20 years to approach IOA's theming and attraction quality. USF just as long.

 

[GoofGoof]

DHS needs 7-9 more rides/attractions than there already is.

Cars dark ride - D
Monsters Inc. door coaster - D
Star Wars dark ride using Twister ride system - E

I could live with that as long as GMR gets some love, the BAH is gone and a couple smaller attractions are added as well.

I have a feeling the Pixar expansion could be pretty significant. I don't see a RSR ride, even a scaled down version, being a D dark ride. I would be shocked if it was. And I would think it would be open way before any SWL ride so an E ride to pimp to the media is needed between those expansions. A monsters D makes sense. But yeah, I agree with the three ride estimate. That TRONcoaster sounds like it's going to be very cool... if it shows up as a rethemed SW ride... that wouldn't hurt my feelings.

I think it would make a lot of sense to have a dark ride for both Cars and Monsters. Cars, Toy Story and Monsters are the 3 big franchises for Pixar in terms of both box office sales and more importantly merchandise. I think the Pixar expansion could split Pixar place into 3 to 4 mini-lands based on Pixar movies.

1. We already have TSMM and I would expect one or two small scale Toy Story additions (not an exact clone of the Playland from Paris).
2. The Monsters section could include a dark ride, a meet and greet area, shopping/restaurant and maybe a smaller flat ride.
3. The Cars "mini-land" could include a clone of Mater plus a Cars dark ride (not full clone of RSR) plus some version of the shops and restaurants.
4. The 4th area could be HISTK re-themed to Bugs or some other minor area with maybe a kids play zone. They could really use some water play too since it gets so hot in FL. Kinda like Casey's in MK.

By not spending the whole Pixar budget on an elaborate E-ticket they could end up really filling out the park. If they went with this plan they would be adding 2 new D tickets plus up to 4 C/B tickets and a kid's play area. That's 7 new attractions. Plus a true E-ticket for SW and possibly a spinner type ride. That gets you to 7 to 9 new rides. Not more than 3 new E/D tickets, but exactly what the park needs... volume of rides.

 

[Bairstow]

lightly themed like Hulk, Dr Doom's fearfall, and Dragon Challenge

I take issue with all of this.

 

[1023]

From the research I did, Avatar land looks to have a 500 million dollar budget (And Rivers of Light is their new night time show). I highly doubt Rivers of Light has a 300 million dollar budget.

Where did you read that?

_______
EDIT: Might I add that Avatarland is a huge area that will encompass multiple attractions and entertainment options, let alone the highest tech stuff Disney has ever done (paraphrasing what James Cameron said) That whole project is costing 500 million (Again, on the google search I just did). This would just be replicating one ride out of a land that cost the same amount. Still totally feasible.

World of Color came in @ $75,000,000 .

*1023*

 

[BigBlu2k7]

Buena Vista Studios would be a cool name.

I like that except if they were still using the studios.

 

[WeLComeHomE OKW]

I take issue with all of this.

The rides themselves are mostly just coasters or other things you find in amusement parks. The freefall ride system comes right out of six flags with not much enhancements. These queues look good, but, for most of Hulks queue it's mostly green walls green lighting and old tv screens. The ride itself is just a green track with zero story, just a roller coaster.

The Harry Potter queue theming looks great. Doesn't change the fact that the coaster doesn't feel much more special than the stuff coming out of Six Flags.

I think thrill should definitely be a part of theme parks, but, I think the point of theme parks is to be immersive and craft unique story telling experiences. Story seems to be tacked on in every ride I mentioned, as a filler for a standard thrill ride. Everest, Space Mountain, Big Thunder, Splash, and Rockin' Roller Coaster all feel like cohesive experiences with a unique personality that tells it's story loud and proud.

That being said, I still tremendously enjoy those rides because they're fun. It doesn't mean I have to like everything about them though. And, in terms of comparing Disney's thrill rides, their knack for theming rides won the day.

You have to remember that Universal's big push into crazy set dressing and immersive theming began after Hulk, Freefall, and Dragon Challenge. And, that's fine. But, a lot of DHS content can use the same excuse and I don't think Disney would have to do much or spend much money to achieve the same level of attraction. I would prefer fewer and stronger full packages.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The rides themselves are mostly just coasters or other things you find in amusement parks. The freefall ride system comes right out of six flags with not much enhancements. These queues look good, but, for most of Hulks queue it's mostly green walls green lighting and old tv screens. The ride itself is just a green track with zero story, just a roller coaster.

The Harry Potter queue theming looks great. Doesn't change the fact that the coaster doesn't feel much more special than the stuff coming out of Six Flags.

I think thrill should definitely be a part of theme parks, but, I think the point of theme parks is to be immersive and craft unique story telling experiences. Story seems to be tacked on in every ride I mentioned, as a filler for a standard thrill ride. Everest, Space Mountain, Big Thunder, Splash, and Rockin' Roller Coaster all feel like cohesive experiences with a unique personality that tells it's story loud and proud.

Six Flags actually bought a copy of Rock 'n Rollercoaster...