The Effects of Corporate Tax Rate cut at Disney World (No political talk allowed)

davis_unoxx

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I would like to start this thread by saying NO political comments are allowed, all that should be discussed is how you think more money kept in Disney's hands will effect operations at Disney World. This is not important just because Disney will have more money in the bank, but also Bob Iger said this, "We pay a Federal tax rate that is above 30% and pay $3 billion in Federal taxes year. The U.S. is not competitive with the rest of the world." While the corporate tax cut rate has not gone into effect, after last night's vote it is surely going to be passed. Remember no political talk! Just discuss how this while positively effect the company to reinvest more. I for one believe much more will be spent in the domestic parks which is desperately needed. Thank you all to who reply to this thread appropriately! I'm a 16 year old boy, if I can discuss a topic appropriately, I truly hope you can too!

Happy Holidays!

-Davis
 

Notes from Neverland

Well-Known Member
It's worth noting the tax bill hasn't been approved yet. In fact, there's actually two different bills in play - one in the House and one in the Senate. For that reason, it may be a bit premature to discuss how Disney would react.

Personally, I don't foresee any tax changes leading to any visible or tangible changes in the parks.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
It's worth noting the tax bill hasn't been approved yet. In fact, there's actually two different bills in play - one in the House and one in the Senate. For that reason, it may be a bit premature to discuss how Disney would react.

Personally, I don't foresee any tax changes leading to any visible or tangible changes in the parks.

Both bills though lower the corporate tax rate from 35% to 20%. Yes it will result in greater net profit. I suspect some of that will go back to the shareholders in the way of dividends or buybacks. But I suspect some will be used for future investments into the parks. Id like to see it go to more upkeep / maintenance that seems to be lacking.
 

davis_unoxx

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Both bills though lower the corporate tax rate from 35% to 20%. Yes it will result in greater net profit. I suspect some of that will go back to the shareholders in the way of dividends or buybacks. But I suspect some will be used for future investments into the parks. Id like to see it go to more upkeep / maintenance that seems to be lacking.
Totally agree with you! A lot of extra money will now be kept in their pockets, let's hope they put it to good use!
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Totally agree with you! A lot of extra money will now be kept in their pockets, let's hope they put it to good use!
Has not worked that way in the past. This company has plenty of cash. If they had the will they could raise parks spending. Tax rate has no effect on this.
People point to Apple and the overseas money. They claim if that money could be brought back for a 15% reduction in taxes Apple would spend billions in the US, hire more people, build assembly plants etc. Fact is Apple has billions here that they could spend on all that if they cared to. They don't so they haven't. Careful what kool-aid you drink.
 

JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
Sure companies can have plenty of cash on hand but that doesnt mean it must be used only for the benefit of the consumer. Thats the way businesses work, some gets put into improvements, some gets funneled to stockholders ( who take the unknown risk investing their money) , some gets stashed away for future needs. It will mean more available funds which could be used in a variety of ways. Disney has been spending money for improvements, some here and some internationally. With more funds becoming available to them hopefully there will be decisions to hire more, improve in maintaining the parks, and expand more USA parks, where they were hesitant to do before.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Taxes are a cost of doing business just as the cost is materials, labor and regulations.

Businesses will migrate to wherever the total.cost of doing business is cheapest.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I will start with a disclosure that I am fine with lowering the corporate income tax rates. Repatriation of profits is a viable argument. That said...expecting it to directly correlate into capital investments, hiring or increased employee pay or benefits...is unlikely.

Corporate Income Taxes are paid post expenses. Meaning, if the company makes 1 million, but spends 999,999 in operating expenses, licensing, capital expenditures (read...new facilities/equipment), etc...they only pay taxes on $1.

Granted, I'm grossly oversimplifying this. But, it is merely to clearly and plainly illustrate the point. The reason a company doesn't just operate without a profit margin, be they private or public, is pressure from investors. Investors only make their monies through realization of profit. The immediate impact of lowering the corporate tax rates will be putting money into their pockets. The net result would bolster stock performance and dividends.

Now, that sounds terrible (to some) because...rich fat cats, and all that. But, it really isn't. A large percentage of investments are held through funds that are relied upon by millions upon millions of people, not just the "top one percent". Retirement funds, for example. These are called Institutional Holdings. Disney's DIS stock (NASDAQ), after a quick check, is ~63% held by these sort of investors. The dividends of these stocks are then distributed amongst their clients, in the case of investment groups and banks, and/or to stabilize cash reserves, in the case of insurance companies.

The largest institutional holder for DIS, for example, is Vanguard Group. Vanguard specializes in all sorts of financial planning for individuals and institutions, one of which, for example, being Duke University's Retirement Fund through Vanguards Target Retirement Fund. Another large holder of DIS stock is State Farm Mutual Auto Insurance Group.

These are just two examples, amongst the ~1200 Institutional Holders of DIS stock, but I think it illustrates enough for me to point out that it isn't all just going to the "rich"...Not by a long shot.

So, that is the immediate economic impact. Bolstering of the stock market.

Now, from there, one of a two things can happen.

1) The company decides to continue the higher dividend payouts, and leave operating expenses as is.
2) The company decides to keep their dividend percentages the same as before, and increase operating expenses

Honestly, #1 is far more likely.

But, that doesn't mean that the further impact, repatriation of funds, doesn't have an effect on the real wages of employees or future capital investments. It just, very likely, won't be direct.

I'll explain how.

Currently companies, once they reach a certain size, spend a lot of time and money keeping revenues isolated away from the US, using subsidiaries, etc. They do this to avoid the higher US taxes. So, you can't simply set up a company in, say, Ireland, and then funnel money through it. That would be tax evasion, that would be illegal. But, you can set up some sort of business unit that produces something of value, for the consumer or the company, and then redirect income through it.

This employes people there, and monies are kept in local banks and investment firms, etc...which is then reinvested (by those local banks) in the local economy there, and the employee salaries spent to bolster that local economy.

And, that is what they do.

The incentive to do this, though, lay strictly to please the investor. A savings in tax can lead to a increase in dividends and stock value. And, to a CEO, that is their primary goal. To create value for the investors. Note...not the consumers. The investors.

So, the argument is...if US based corporations are presented with the option to pay the same (or lower) rate of tax without having to jump through international means, they will, potentially, keep the funds in the US, and expand those business units here.

If they do so, this leads to an indirect impact on the US economy as a whole. The increased dividends go to US based investment and financial institutions and insurance companies. These funds have a direct impact on US local markets, through loans, insurance rates, etc. And, these, have a direct, but distributed, impact on the US based economy. And, the wages, if paid to US employees, are spent largely within our economy, or deposited in local banks which, in turn, invest locally. When the funds are kept overseas, they do not.

As I said at the beginning...not direct. But, indirect.

Critics are not wrong to say this is "trickle down"...that is exactly, when grossly oversimplified, what it is. The question is...does it work?
 
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coasterphil

Well-Known Member
It won’t have an impact. Disney (like just about every other public company) is worried about operating margins, which has nothing to do with taxation. You will continue to see the same cuts even if they don’t have to pay a dime in taxes, because why give back operating expenses just because the tax bill is lower. Take both and the shareholders get even more benefit.

Executives/Management are judged on operating results, they aren’t going to be given a free pass to spend or slack off on cost control just because the government has decided to give businesses a boost.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
The government letting profitable businesses keep more of their profits to spend on things the business deems worthy is a good thing. It will depend on the business owners to determine what they should spend more of their own profits on.

If a business has a need for physical investment and expansion of a piece of property it owns, like WDW, then the business will spend it on that if it decides that's the best use of its earned profits. But I doubt that once Disney is paying 30% less in corporate taxes it will decide "Let's spend the extra money on that secret E Ticket at Disney World we cancelled two years ago!"

Instead, the tax savings Disney will receive along with all other private businesses, will be spread across a wide range of financial goals; stock buybacks, financial investments, employee costs, physical upkeep or expansion of facilities, etc.
 
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capsshield

Active Member
Most taxes are paid by the consumer as a pass through expense, however taxes on earnings are paid through the corporations profits, if there are any, or by the shareholders on their earned income. You can not pass through this type of tax to the consumer because profits and losses are extremely unpredictable and change monthly. A small business can be up $50,000 one month and down $20,000 3 months later. A business can do things that change that cash flow every day all year long.

The proposals set forth by congress and the Senate would free up pure earned profit for these companies to spend as they see fit. A reduction of 35% in taxes to a 20% tax rate is close to a 43% rate reduction. If Disney Made $3 billion in profit and paid $1 billion in taxes and then under the changes paid $600 million in taxes the following year, they would have $400 million to reinvest or pay out. Hopefully they do both. $4 Billion over a 10 year period of extra profit is a massive amount of capital. It can buy a huge improvement to existing parks or buy a company like Marvel or Lucas film that generates even more massive amounts of cash. It will be a good thing.
 

coasterphil

Well-Known Member
If a business has a need for physical investment and expansion of a piece of property it owns, like WDW, then the business will spend it on that if it decides that's the best use of its earned profits. But I doubt that once Disney is paying 30% less in corporate taxes it will decide "Let's spend the extra money on that secret E Ticket at Disney World we cancelled two years ago!"

Instead, the tax savings Disney will receive along with all other private businesses, will be spread across a wide range of financial goals; stock buybacks, financial investments, employee costs, physical upkeep or expansion of facilities, etc.

Right, because ROI analysis doesn’t stop just because you got a tax break. Just as before, Disney will determine what use of their cash/capital is going to do most to increase value for shareholders. You’re basically hoping that Disney has so much cash after this that they can’t possibly spend it all on the items at the top of their list, which to this point seems to have been more geared towards juicing the current stock price vs long term growth (This is my opinion, some will argue otherwise).

If spending 10B on dividends and buybacks results in more return than 5B in buybacks and 5B in new attractions, you aren’t getting the new attractions. That’s obviously a grossly simplified way of looking at it, but having more capital doesn’t change the basic way of thinking about where to use it. It (in theory) allows a company to work farther down the list of proposed uses, assuming they have more projects able to return their minimum desired ROI than they have cash on hand currently.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
I will start with a disclosure that I am fine with lowering the corporate income tax rates. Repatriation of profits is a viable argument. That said...expecting it to directly correlate into capital investments, hiring or increased employee pay or benefits...is unlikely.

Corporate Income Taxes are paid post expenses. Meaning, if the company makes 1 million, but spends 999,999 in operating expenses, licensing, capital expenditures (read...new facilities/equipment), etc...they only pay taxes on $1.

Granted, I'm grossly oversimplifying this. But, it is merely to clearly and plainly illustrate the point. The reason a company doesn't just operate without a profit margin, be they private or public, is pressure from investors. Investors only make their monies through realization of profit. The immediate impact of lowering the corporate tax rates will be putting money into their pockets. The net result would bolster stock performance and dividends.

Now, that sounds terrible (to some) because...rich fat cats, and all that. But, it really isn't. A large percentage of investments are held through funds that are relied upon by millions upon millions of people, not just the "top one percent". Retirement funds, for example. These are called Institutional Holdings. Disney's DIS stock (NASDAQ), after a quick check, is ~63% held by these sort of investors. The dividends of these stocks are then distributed amongst their clients, in the case of investment groups and banks, and/or to stabilize cash reserves, in the case of insurance companies.

The largest institutional holder for DIS, for example, is Vanguard Group. Vanguard specializes in all sorts of financial planning for individuals and institutions, one of which, for example, being Duke University's Retirement Fund through Vanguards Target Retirement Fund. Another large holder of DIS stock is State Farm Mutual Auto Insurance Group.

These are just two examples, amongst the ~1200 Institutional Holders of DIS stock, but I think it illustrates enough for me to point out that it isn't all just going to the "rich"...Not by a long shot.

So, that is the immediate economic impact. Bolstering of the stock market.

Now, from there, one of a two things can happen.

1) The company decides to continue the higher dividend payouts, and leave operating expenses as is.
2) The company decides to keep their dividend percentages the same as before, and increase operating expenses

Honestly, #1 is far more likely.

But, that doesn't mean that the further impact, repatriation of funds, doesn't have an effect on the real wages of employees or future capital investments. It just, very likely, won't be direct.

I'll explain how.

Currently companies, once they reach a certain size, spend a lot of time and money keeping revenues isolated away from the US, using subsidiaries, etc. They do this to avoid the higher US taxes. So, you can't simply set up a company in, say, Ireland, and then funnel money through it. That would be tax evasion, that would be illegal. But, you can set up some sort of business unit that produces something of value, for the consumer or the company, and then redirect income through it.

This employes people there, and monies are kept in local banks and investment firms, etc...which is then reinvested (by those local banks) in the local economy there, and the employee salaries spent to bolster that local economy.

And, that is what they do.

The incentive to do this, though, lay strictly to please the investor. A savings in tax can lead to a increase in dividends and stock value. And, to a CEO, that is their primary goal. To create value for the investors. Note...not the consumers. The investors.

So, the argument is...if US based corporations are presented with the option to pay the same (or lower) rate of tax without having to jump through international means, they will, potentially, keep the funds in the US, and expand those business units here.

If they do so, this leads to an indirect impact on the US economy as a whole. The increased dividends go to US based investment and financial institutions and insurance companies. These funds have a direct impact on US local markets, through loans, insurance rates, etc. And, these, have a direct, but distributed, impact on the US based economy. And, the wages, if paid to US employees, are spent largely within our economy, or deposited in local banks which, in turn, invest locally. When the funds are kept overseas, they do not.

As I said at the beginning...not direct. But, indirect.

Critics are not wrong to say this is "trickle down"...that is exactly, when grossly oversimplified, what it is. The question is...does it work?

The one thing you are missing here is that there is a ceiling to dividends/buybacks, after which the stock will actually not increase, but rather decline. This is because part of what drives the market is the expectation of future growth. The market likes dividends and buybacks, but if they don't see investment into the future (especially when high dividends are being handed out), the price will fall.

How does that relate to taxes? It means that, while the rate cut is likely to cause any increase in dividends and buybacks, I suspect that it will only be a portion of the difference. Couple that with repatriation and I suspect we will see some increased investment as opposed to what would have been done absent of the law.
 

rioriz

Well-Known Member
I'm being sincere, unlike the HoP thread this has nothing to do with a particular Disney or attraction news or rumor...and as said before, tis a bit premature
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
I will start with a disclosure that I am fine with lowering the corporate income tax rates. Repatriation of profits is a viable argument. That said...expecting it to directly correlate into capital investments, hiring or increased employee pay or benefits...is unlikely.

Corporate Income Taxes are paid post expenses. Meaning, if the company makes 1 million, but spends 999,999 in operating expenses, licensing, capital expenditures (read...new facilities/equipment), etc...they only pay taxes on $1.

Granted, I'm grossly oversimplifying this. But, it is merely to clearly and plainly illustrate the point. The reason a company doesn't just operate without a profit margin, be they private or public, is pressure from investors. Investors only make their monies through realization of profit. The immediate impact of lowering the corporate tax rates will be putting money into their pockets. The net result would bolster stock performance and dividends.

Now, that sounds terrible (to some) because...rich fat cats, and all that. But, it really isn't. A large percentage of investments are held through funds that are relied upon by millions upon millions of people, not just the "top one percent". Retirement funds, for example. These are called Institutional Holdings. Disney's DIS stock (NASDAQ), after a quick check, is ~63% held by these sort of investors. The dividends of these stocks are then distributed amongst their clients, in the case of investment groups and banks, and/or to stabilize cash reserves, in the case of insurance companies.

The largest institutional holder for DIS, for example, is Vanguard Group. Vanguard specializes in all sorts of financial planning for individuals and institutions, one of which, for example, being Duke University's Retirement Fund through Vanguards Target Retirement Fund. Another large holder of DIS stock is State Farm Mutual Auto Insurance Group.

These are just two examples, amongst the ~1200 Institutional Holders of DIS stock, but I think it illustrates enough for me to point out that it isn't all just going to the "rich"...Not by a long shot.

So, that is the immediate economic impact. Bolstering of the stock market.

Now, from there, one of a two things can happen.

1) The company decides to continue the higher dividend payouts, and leave operating expenses as is.
2) The company decides to keep their dividend percentages the same as before, and increase operating expenses

Honestly, #1 is far more likely.

But, that doesn't mean that the further impact, repatriation of funds, doesn't have an effect on the real wages of employees or future capital investments. It just, very likely, won't be direct.

I'll explain how.

Currently companies, once they reach a certain size, spend a lot of time and money keeping revenues isolated away from the US, using subsidiaries, etc. They do this to avoid the higher US taxes. So, you can't simply set up a company in, say, Ireland, and then funnel money through it. That would be tax evasion, that would be illegal. But, you can set up some sort of business unit that produces something of value, for the consumer or the company, and then redirect income through it.

This employes people there, and monies are kept in local banks and investment firms, etc...which is then reinvested (by those local banks) in the local economy there, and the employee salaries spent to bolster that local economy.

And, that is what they do.

The incentive to do this, though, lay strictly to please the investor. A savings in tax can lead to a increase in dividends and stock value. And, to a CEO, that is their primary goal. To create value for the investors. Note...not the consumers. The investors.

So, the argument is...if US based corporations are presented with the option to pay the same (or lower) rate of tax without having to jump through international means, they will, potentially, keep the funds in the US, and expand those business units here.

If they do so, this leads to an indirect impact on the US economy as a whole. The increased dividends go to US based investment and financial institutions and insurance companies. These funds have a direct impact on US local markets, through loans, insurance rates, etc. And, these, have a direct, but distributed, impact on the US based economy. And, the wages, if paid to US employees, are spent largely within our economy, or deposited in local banks which, in turn, invest locally. When the funds are kept overseas, they do not.

As I said at the beginning...not direct. But, indirect.

Critics are not wrong to say this is "trickle down"...that is exactly, when grossly oversimplified, what it is. The question is...does it work?

Very good explanation. Well said.
 

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