the "economics of Disney " right now..

MagicRat

Well-Known Member
i honestly believe that disney is reaping the reward of NO ONE BEING ABLE TO GO ANYWHERE FOR A YEAR.. and after that the crap is gonna hit the fan... I think that these crowds are just people WHO NEED TO GO SOMEWHERE AND WE GO THERE NOW>. and after that we are going to evaluate the cost.. and the return benefits..

and after this year.. if the virus has subsided , people are going to reevaluate just how much has been lost, at Disney world, and how it is NO LONGER WALT'S disney world.. and then shareholders may be in for a big surprise..

heck right now I am crawling on my belly begging to go to the Previous Disney world.. JUST BECAUSE I HAVEN"T BEEN ANY WHERE IN TWO PLUS YEARS.. NO WHERE.. Heck I can count the times that I have been in my Local Walmart on TWO HANDS.. easily. and that's for the past two plus years.. in the past we could go to Walmart three times in a week.. have not been in Target ONCE in close to 3 years.. BESTBUY ONE TIME.. Heck I have been to the Doctor more then all of that..

No Bob Cheapskake is reaping the benefits people who are desperate .. We need to GO SOME WHERE>> please LETS GO SOME WHERE.. that's the current economics of WDW..
Original poster, I hope for you times get good again. Disney may have changed since you have gone, I haven’t been back since the pandemic started either. You do you, my family has avoided the public as much as possible too. When you chose to come back out do it on your terms! Stay positive!
 

SteveAZee

Premium Member
I'm shocked that nobody ever mentions just... Ya know... World population increase. For every 10,000 people... How many of those people are planning a trip to Disney World?... I've often thought about this.

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Probably around 7.9 billion in 2022.... That's a lot of people.

Even the United States alone is crazy. We're at 334,805,269 people in 2022... And the USA population goes up 1.5-ish million people each year. Out of 1 million people, again, how many people are planning a vacation to WDW? It is no wonder prices keep going up and the parks still fill up. It is actually insane when you think about it by the numbers. Disney will ALWAYS have an audience SOMEWHERE at this rate.
For me, it's a question of the population growth of people who have enough discretionary income to take a vacation to Disney. It seems like median household income (adjusted for inflation) has remained around $60K for decades. We also know that WDW has increased prices much faster than inflation, so is the population growth of the US higher than the rate of Disney increases minus the rate of inflation?
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
I'm shocked that nobody ever mentions just... Ya know... World population increase. For every 10,000 people... How many of those people are planning a trip to Disney World?... I've often thought about this.

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Probably around 7.9 billion in 2022.... That's a lot of people.

Even the United States alone is crazy. We're at 334,805,269 people in 2022... And the USA population goes up 1.5-ish million people each year. Out of 1 million people, again, how many people are planning a vacation to WDW? It is no wonder prices keep going up and the parks still fill up. It is actually insane when you think about it by the numbers. Disney will ALWAYS have an audience SOMEWHERE at this rate.
Distribution of wealth is *wildly* unequal within this population however. A trip to Disney is a level of decadence that the vast, vast majority of the world can’t afford. If you look at the statistics global wealth inequality is extremely troubling, but that’s another big topic and somewhat tangential here (another interesting note - if Google is correct, global population is projected to plummet in everywhere except South Africa over the next several decades.)

I do think that international travel has increased the number of would-be Disney goers by a lot in the past few decades. Also US wealth inequality - it seems to me that the lower middle and “middle middle” class in the US is shrinking while the upper middle class is growing (anecdotally I would say the exception there being immigrant communities, where you might find more of the old “blue collar neighborhood” dynamic - but probably only for the first generation, as new immigrants get established in the US.) And this group of people LOVE vacations in a way that was perhaps not expected. The new zeitgeist is “I value experience, not things” - again, a dynamic that was perhaps not easily predictable even 20 or 30 years ago, when “things” were collected and handed down and considered much more valuable. Now you have a lot of dollars looking for “an experience”, and not enough experiences available. (Just my two cents, anyways.)
 

JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
What’s crazy is you can get…
SeaWorld season passes that include Aquatica
Legoland passes with water park and Merlin attractions
Universal annual pass
Zoo pass
Aquarium pass
Gatorland pass
Museum pass
Six Flags Pass
Carowinds pass

For less than Disney season pass. It’s nuts.
Exactly. There are many options people can choose to take... if they are willing to bypass FL or pass on having a Disney type experience. If you can convince the kids that the trip you are going on can be just as fun filled without Mickey, Minnie and the rest of the Disney gang and settling for a HM or coaster or other attraction that may be different. Ive had many a trip to other parks and had enjoyable times. But in the back of my mind Ive always thought... This isnt Dis and cant help but make a comparison. If a family cant be happy with what Dis is now, and justify the cost there are viable options.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Disney is a great destination, has been, and will continue to be.

But there's no denying that its value has declined and has gotten expensive while guests have received less AND the difficulty of planning has increased.

Everyone has a "threshold" for how much they are willing to spend on a visit to WDW/Universal/Orlando.

I would much rather travel to Tokyo, spend a week in Japan, visit Tokyo Disneyland and drop $5K before I ever consider dropping $5K for a trip to WDW. I just can't justify spending $5K at WDW... and I love theme parks.

My gripe against Starcruiser isn't that its expensive, but for that same amount you can get an (arguably) better value on a 7+ night cruise/trip to Europe, etc.
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Nobody has to buy into the $700 deluxe, or the $20pp ILL for RotR, or spend $6k on the Starcruiser, or fork over cash for a VIP Tour. I am far from a Disney apologist. And yes, I recognize that Disney is making a cash grab. But the following still apply:

  • Visiting a resort ( or resort hopping) is free.
  • Disney Springs is free
  • Disney Transportation is free (at least up until this point it is)
  • There are tons of value/moderate properties within 5 miles of Disney property that charge far less. There are even some located within the gates that will provide good value.
  • There are tons of reasonably priced food options within 5 miles of Disney property. There are many located within the gates that will provide good value.
  • Outside of the ticket cost to enter a park - you are not forced to spend any money at Disney.
  • You control the duration of your visit
The economics of Disney doesn't concern me as much as the micromanagement of a Disney vacation. I'm on vacation damnit - I don't want a schedule. I went on vacation to get away from schedules.
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
I don't think people care nearly as much as the microcosm of this board thinks they do. For some that can still afford to go, they will probably shell out the money without without thinking much about it. Or they will complain about it on this board and then still choose to shell out the money regardless. A few will decide to drop out of the rat race and Disney will not miss them. For others, it's a once and done trip that they will budget for, bring their kids for, and then walk away. This won't really affect that for them other than possibly staying at a cheaper hotel, or staying off property rather than on. Others will just decide to go somewhere else. And Disney won't care either way. It has been 50 years.

In the long run, this might affect people buying into DVC, or centering their entire family around Disney vacations. Maybe the next generation won't be as into it anymore as we are. But that's still a decade away.

The average person isn't nearly as emotionally invested in this as we, the people on this board, are. They won't lose any sleep over choosing not to go to Disney world in the future, and honestly Disney world won't lose any sleep not having them. Does it mean a little John or Susan microwave not knowing the reality of a Disney trip, maybe. But if they don't know what they're missing, I doubt they're crying to their parents about it every night. If they care that much when they get older they can pay for it themselves.

The park might have changed from what Walt originally envisioned, but it is almost 3/4 of a century old. It would have to change to stay relevant. And it is also a publicly traded company, which means really it lost its heart a long time ago.

This really isn't just a Disney thing. Outside of the more affluent neighborhoods, even before this world pandemic, how many of your children's friends took a week long summer vacation every year? How many of your coworkers would take 2 weeks off a year to go somewhere with their family? The 50's family idea of an annual family vacation is starting to die out. Or at least it seems to be in my area because I'm about the only person in my building that seems to still go on a vacation every year. My kids are the only ones of their friends that go on a vacation every year. Even before this, families started losing the ability to go on family vacations a long time ago. This is not a nail in a coffin. It's another increment down a slope that's been building for a long time.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
I don't think people care nearly as much as the microcosm of this board thinks they do. For some that can still afford to go, they will probably shell out the money without without thinking much about it.
Of course they don't. People like us have a much, MUCH, greater attachment to the parks. As quality and value have plummeted, attendance has exploded. Will there be a tipping point? Maybe. But that is of little concern to Disney at this point.
The park might have changed from what Walt originally envisioned, but it is almost 3/4 of a century old. It would have to change to stay relevant.
I don't think anyone thinks the parks should never change to stay relevant. Change has to happen especially in a theme park setting. What doesn't have to change is dedication to quality. And that is the root of most people's problems with Disney. Quality standards have dropped to incredible lows. From maintenance, to theming, value, to ride and guest experience. I have no issues with change, as long as the replacement is as good or better than what was there before. Unfortunately all most of us, or at least myself, can say is that we are paying A LOT more for a vastly inferior experience than what we had before.
 

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
Oh I hear ya…

I was an annual for 10+ years…then went to more of an every 18-2 year thing…now it’s been 3 and isn’t really burning a whole in the soul. I’d get it if offered probably before other plans next year and after…but I’m not gonna beg for it.

And in recent years…almost did the universal pass but we were hesitant that we’d like it (had been about 18 years for me). Did a long weekend and loved it. The AB platinum is on the radar now. I love those parks even if they aren’t 100% comparable…

People will say: “there’s 10 people to take you’re place! Magic! Magic! Magic!”

Nice to think that in a vacuum but not really…

…The twenty+ years of overpriced Disney drinks and restaurants…the wedding bills…the timeshare…half of days Christmas on my third floor?

Ten people waiting, you say??
Wait, you haven't been to WDW in 3+years with no plans to return, and your most recent 2 visits were 2018 and 2016?

Did I just read that correctly?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I'm shocked that nobody ever mentions just... Ya know... World population increase. For every 10,000 people... How many of those people are planning a trip to Disney World?... I've often thought about this.

View attachment 624659
View attachment 624660View attachment 624661View attachment 624662View attachment 624663
Probably around 7.9 billion in 2022.... That's a lot of people.

Even the United States alone is crazy. We're at 334,805,269 people in 2022... And the USA population goes up 1.5-ish million people each year. Out of 1 million people, again, how many people are planning a vacation to WDW? It is no wonder prices keep going up and the parks still fill up. It is actually insane when you think about it by the numbers. Disney will ALWAYS have an audience SOMEWHERE at this rate.
Excellent post. Travel as a whole has grown on a predictable trajectory since 1971.

So how do you address it?
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I'm shocked that nobody ever mentions just... Ya know... World population increase. For every 10,000 people... How many of those people are planning a trip to Disney World?... I've often thought about this.

View attachment 624659
View attachment 624660View attachment 624661View attachment 624662View attachment 624663
Probably around 7.9 billion in 2022.... That's a lot of people.

Even the United States alone is crazy. We're at 334,805,269 people in 2022... And the USA population goes up 1.5-ish million people each year. Out of 1 million people, again, how many people are planning a vacation to WDW? It is no wonder prices keep going up and the parks still fill up. It is actually insane when you think about it by the numbers. Disney will ALWAYS have an audience SOMEWHERE at this rate.
TWDC partnered with ex NFL QB Colin Kapernick to help address social injustice among other things. To gain more of a market share of more African Americans coming to parks and resorts has lots of potential. This market of spenders is a billion dollar plus market. A Black Panther land would be an idea for starters.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Yeah, that's too many people on this planet!

World population is one thing, let's also note that millions have moved from the north/northeast to the south, and can now easily drive to Orlando if they don't live there already. I'm beginning to wonder who is left in NY state at this point.
About 20,000,000 people are left.

But this a bit of a misconception. Older people move south. And you know what they’re good at?

The largest American generation are in the 60-80 range now…so that’s gonna change demographics dramatically starting now.

It’s not like a kid from Ohio state who’s 26 and just finished his 3rd “manadatory” degree in communications/human studies is looking to rock $14.00 an hour in Jacksonville or clermont.

The south still lags on the type of wealth/employment that allows all those boomers to head there. Better than before…but don’t expect the fundamentals of Florida to change next week or year. You need to “bring it”…not make it

(This is where the millennial “economists” usually jump in to throw some rudimentary Econ theory without context…Bitcoin and stuff 😎)
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
well. Increase prices like they have been doing.

Or build a third resort in America to level out crowds. (But why do that when they can up prices, of course.)
I go for option 1A…

They can increase prices…no problem. But it is longterm awful to do it because of the reason they can do it: Bob didn’t build in the end and it’s just a dressed up/repurposed version of what he took over with. So you’re playing out the string from a strategic standpoint. Nothing lasts forever.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Disney tried that in Northern VA with Disney America. The locals wanted no part of it, fought and won.
That’s an old tale…but the takeaway really is that Eisners mindset was to expand the brand. That’s not what the gruesome twosome have done since.

I’m not saying that was the right/wrong approach…but it’s unreasonable for there not to be some trade offs/consequences for the peasants
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
That’s an old tale…but the takeaway really is that Eisners mindset was to expand the brand. That’s not what the gruesome twosome have done since.

I’m not saying that was the right/wrong approach…but it’s unreasonable for there not to be some trade offs/consequences for the peasants
NoVA put up a fight then Disney decided it was not worth it to build the theme park in their area.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I
NoVA put up a fight then Disney decided it was not worth it to build the theme park in their area.
That was an incredibly problematic plan…it really wouldn’t have worked…

But mike moved on to his second choice:
1646527136992.jpeg
 

Rumrunner

Well-Known Member
Trip to Disney (driving) for 10 days for 12 people, 3 families, and 3 generations. Cost-app $20000
Trip to Six flags-4 nights-cost app $2800
Trip to beach with 2nd row 3 bedroom 3bath beach house 7 days-$3500.
 
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