Rumor Swan and Dolphin Tower Expansion - The Cove

HauntedPirate

Sheltered-at-home Park nostalgist
Premium Member
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Why build something creative when a plain, box-like building works just fine, is cheaper, and also conforms with the "de-risk" mandate? We don't want guests in creative resort buildings, because then they'll want to hang around them instead of being in the parks spending money in shops and restaurants when not clogging up walkways or standing in long ride lines.
 

WDW95

Active Member
Do you have concepts of what they were originally going to look like? I'm curious.
It probably would have looked similar to the Hilton at Disney Springs (the original from 1983, not the newer Palace). It was to be designed by architect Alan Lapidus. He designed the Hilton as well as several other hotels including the Fountain Blue in Miami.

Ironically, Alan Lapidus was still retained as a consultant architect for the Swan/Dolphin. Michael Graves did not have much hotel expertise whereas Alan Lapidus was know as the "hotel architect" and knew all the requirements of such a building. Lapidus figured out the functional parts of the building where Graves figured out the design.
 

WDW95

Active Member
I hope this new tower is not associated with the Swan/Dolphin but instead is considered a stand-alone property. Seems a bit more bearable that way. Furthermore, I am surprised they are going through so much effort to keep the mini golf courses. Why not give the new hotel some property to breath and just add a new golf course at Disney Springs? Seems to make much more sense. I can't imagine the mini golf would bring in more profits than an upscale hotel.
 

DisneyGentlemanV2.0

Well-Known Member
I don't like it either but I think you are exaggerating a bit.
Honestly, I don't think so. Disney's market is themed entertainment, and the themes of the hotels (like the wondrous Wilderness Lodge) draw me in to another place. Siting as well as aesthetics are key. I can deal with blah hotels on interstates on a business trip, but I won't throw expensive vacation dollars at Crystal Meh.
 
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MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
I hope this new tower is not associated with the Swan/Dolphin but instead is considered a stand-alone property. Seems a bit more bearable that way. Furthermore, I am surprised they are going through so much effort to keep the mini golf courses. Why not give the new hotel some property to breath and just add a new golf course at Disney Springs? Seems to make much more sense. I can't imagine the mini golf would bring in more profits than an upscale hotel.
Look at the overhead view... all the Swolphin's pools are highlighted. The three resorts will almost certainly share amenities. It seems to me it will be highly unlikely that it won't be the Swolfice in the end.
 

danlb_2000

Well-Known Member
Look at the overhead view... all the Swolphin's pools are highlighted. The three resorts will almost certainly share amenities. It seems to me it will be highly unlikely that it won't be the Swolfice in the end.
But the new hotel does have it's own pool, so it is not relying completely on the S&D pools.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
But the new hotel does have it's own pool, so it is not relying completely on the S&D pools.
True. S&D each have their own pools and they share common ones and their guests can use the other's pools. Though, with how upscale the Office is supposed to be, they may not let S&D use their pool!

It seems to me the artwork makes it clear that the three hotels will share the space between them. The local resort road is landscaped to diminish it's divisiveness.

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raymusiccity

Well-Known Member
I hope this new tower is not associated with the Swan/Dolphin but instead is considered a stand-alone property. Seems a bit more bearable that way. Furthermore, I am surprised they are going through so much effort to keep the mini golf courses. Why not give the new hotel some property to breath and just add a new golf course at Disney Springs? Seems to make much more sense. I can't imagine the mini golf would bring in more profits than an upscale hotel.
I think this goes back to the complicated land deal when MGM was under development. Neither the Swan, Dolphin or this new 'crystal meh' is owned or operated by Disney.
 

raymusiccity

Well-Known Member
Wasn’t it a spinoff deal with Tishman originally from EPCOT Center ?
You're mostly correct. :) There are several articles regarding the bad blood and threatened litigation 'back in the day'.

..." Disney and the Tishman Realty & Construction reached an agreement and dropped the lawsuit. Tishman was originally going to build their convention complex on a 68-acre parcel of land at Lake Buena Vista, but agreed on a new site between EPCOT Center and the recently announced Disney-MGM Studios Theme Park. In a January 29, 1988 Los Angeles Timesstory Richard M. Kielar, a first vice president of Tishman Realty & Construction said, “Now we are right next to Epcot; we feel that it’s a much better site, and this was part of the settlement.” Michael Graves was announced as the project architect...."
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
You're mostly correct. :) There are several articles regarding the bad blood and threatened litigation 'back in the day'.

..." Disney and the Tishman Realty & Construction reached an agreement and dropped the lawsuit. Tishman was originally going to build their convention complex on a 68-acre parcel of land at Lake Buena Vista, but agreed on a new site between EPCOT Center and the recently announced Disney-MGM Studios Theme Park. In a January 29, 1988 Los Angeles Timesstory Richard M. Kielar, a first vice president of Tishman Realty & Construction said, “Now we are right next to Epcot; we feel that it’s a much better site, and this was part of the settlement.” Michael Graves was announced as the project architect...."
I know the deal was in place in 1984... without checking I want to say it was from EPCOTs construction deal (Tishman was the main contractor for the park)

I’m also hearing the new hotel may not end up looking quite as bad as the render.
 

TJ Vazquez

Premium Member
In the Parks
No
I know the deal was in place in 1984... without checking I want to say it was from EPCOTs construction deal (Tishman was the main contractor for the park)

I’m also hearing the new hotel may not end up looking quite as bad as the render.
Man I hope what you're hearing is true.

Maybe the tactic was to show us garbage so that we will lower our bar when the real thing is finished and love it?:p
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
I know the deal was in place in 1984... without checking I want to say it was from EPCOTs construction deal (Tishman was the main contractor for the park)

I’m also hearing the new hotel may not end up looking quite as bad as the render.
Twist: Someone uploaded the wrong jpeg.

That's hopeful sounding though!
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
Man I hope what you're hearing is true.

Maybe the tactic was to show us garbage so that we will lower our bar when the real thing is finished and love it?:p
Twist: Someone uploaded the wrong jpeg.

That's hopeful sounding though!
The art was once valid it seems, but is old. It has been superceded by something a little more fitting. Not a Swolphin clone but something a bit better than the office block. Location and size is around the same.
 

TJ Vazquez

Premium Member
In the Parks
No
The art was once valid it seems, but is old. It has been superceded by something a little more fitting. Not a Swolphin clone but something a bit better than the office block. Location and size is around the same.
Awesome news, thanks Martin! Not sure why I am so sensitive to this area, maybe because when I was a kid that Swan and Dolphin is where we would stay, and I'd hate to see that area cheapened with a building like the original concept art.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
I know the deal was in place in 1984... without checking I want to say it was from EPCOTs construction deal (Tishman was the main contractor for the park)

I’m also hearing the new hotel may not end up looking quite as bad as the render.
You're the second person I've seen to say that the artist's rendering isn't accurate. The other person who said it is an unknown to me.

Remember, this is the site that 'leaked' the early rendition of the banshees as banshees and not psionic hook-up devices.
 

WDW95

Active Member
Look at the overhead view... all the Swolphin's pools are highlighted. The three resorts will almost certainly share amenities. It seems to me it will be highly unlikely that it won't be the Swolfice in the end.
I can almost imagine this new tower being a luxury, "exclusive", extension of the Swan. Something like "The Enclave at The Swan." While thematically separate, it will still have association with the larger Swolphin complex. Guests of the new hotel will have a private pool for themselves but also have access to the main complexes amenities.
 
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