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Rumor Swan and Dolphin Tower Expansion - Height Balloon Testing by Fantasia Gardens

Sirwalterraleigh

Well-Known Member
What are the chances the architect who designed this ice cube has never seen the Swolphin and when he asked Disney for some reference pictures of the site to work from they showed him the original, rejected Michael Graves designs.
Not very good...the internet allows for easy info...

It's not Just For kids on snapchat
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Advertisement
It’s popular to dump on post modernism these days. That’s why exemplary buildings like the Swolphin need to be preserved and more carefully upgraded.

Even when he made a video in support of preserving Phillip Johnson’s AT&T Building (550 Madison), Lord Norman Foster (Apple Park, Hong Kong International) couldn’t help but casually trash it.
Postmodern buildings have a rough decade or so ahead of them.
 

GeneralKnowledge

Well-Known Member
What original rejected Graves designs? Graves was no longer a White by the time of the Swan and Dolphin. It seems doubtful that an architect wouldn’t know Graves and would also not bother with even cursory research on the site context.
I was being sarcastic, apparently failing to make a joke, referring @marni1971’s post below. If Eisner rejected the original designs for being too boxy and generic, wouldn’t it be humorous if those designs were what the current architect was basing his design from?

It’s odd. Eisner rejected the original Tishman hotels that were proposed after they were moved from LBV to here. They were too box-like, generic glass buildings that could be built anywhere. That’s why we got the Swolphin.

Yet here we are in 2018 looking at a box-like generic glass building that could be built anywhere.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I was being sarcastic, apparently failing to make a joke, referring @marni1971’s post below. If Eisner rejected the original designs for being too boxy and generic, wouldn’t it be humorous if those designs were what the current architect was basing his design from?
Those designs weren’t by Graves. I thought you were alluding to some obscure scheme in between.
 

Monorail_Red_77

Well-Known Member
They also own the land the LBV resorts sit on. I wonder what the situation is for the Four Seasons and the Flamingo Crossings development.
Here's what I could find based on Orange County Property Appraiser site as well as Sunbiz (Florida Div of Corporations) and a little google along the way. I have included screen grabs of maps and other supporting docs.

So here goes......

Four Seasons property was actually sold off and is no longer owned by Disney at all.
FS AND GOLDEN OAK ZOOM.png
FS SEARCH 1.png



Golden Oak which surrounds Four Seasons and includes the Multi-Million Houses on Property.
This was changed from being Disney Parks and Resorts US owned to a spin-off Golden Oak Develpement LLC owned.
Which is still owned by Disney, just not parks and resorts. This was done so as to not cause any issues with Reedy Creek Voting members. The seven or so people that actually live in City of Bay Lake beside MK backstage and the same amount that live in City of Lake Buena Vista, behind Disney Springs area. So since Golden Oak residents do not technically live in WDW they cannot vote on WDW which is good. However, they still sort of live on property as it is owned by Disney.

FS AND GOLDEN OAK ZOOM.png

GOLDEN OAK SEARCH 1.png

GOLDEN OAK SEARCH 2.png

Flamingo Crossings was spun off as Flamingo Crossings LLC similarly to how Golden Oak Development LLC was and is still owned by Disney as can be seen in the below supporting screen grabs.
FLAMINGO CROSSINGS LLC MAP 1.png

FLAMINGO CROSSINGS LLC SEARCH 1.png

Out west past Flamingo Crossing, Disney Parks US owns some land right up to CR 545 (Avalon RD)
FLAMINGO CROSSINGS LLC MAP 2.png

If you look east across I-4 from Disney Springs Hotel area. Disney Parks US owns land around little Lk Bryant, which is Mickey's Retreat (area for CM recreation) Some of the land they own and land is probably leased. Most of this is for the College Program CM's to reside in. I found it interesting that the own one property Meadow Creek but not the other four or so nearby. If you have ever noticed the TranStar buses that run off property. Theses are for CM transport off-site. At night I've actually seen some CM still in costume on the buses.
NEAR MICKEY'S RETREAT MAP 1.png

Since I was looking through the map I thought I'd also throw in a bit of DHS fun. You can see that they have some of the Toy Story Land building already on the Prop Appraisers site now too.
TOY STORY MAP 1.png


Celebration, FL had a similar fate once it was completed. It was spun off on it's own while Disney still owns some property in that town such as Disney Cruise Line Offices, etc. Yet Celebration gets all of their utilities from Reedy Creek Improvement District. Also you can see that RCID also owns property surrounding Celebration as well.
Pics of this may come in a later post.

That's all for now.
 

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orlandovv7

New Member
Has anyone heard an update to this? I couldn't find anything online. Would be interesting to see a new luxury resort go here, perhaps Marriott branded? (A St. Regis would be a nice addition to Marriott's other luxury properties in Orlando...)
 

alex0c

Active Member
I work in the real estate development industry and can share a few tidbits that just came across my desk:

-Tishman is partnering with MetLife to build the new 350 room hotel
-They are currently seeking a 7-year, $627 million loan to refinance the existing debt on the property
-$180 million of that would be a construction loan for the new hotel
-The Swan and Dolphin hotels generated $35.5 million of net operating income last year, up from $25 million in 2016 (guess those renovations paid off!). Occupancy last year was 91%
-Tishman has a land lease which runs through 2041 with two 25-year extension options
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Uh oh, someone will try to conenct dots and claim that MetLife is resurrecting its sponsorship of Wonders of Life and hence the renovations over there.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
I work in the real estate development industry and can share a few tidbits that just came across my desk:

-Tishman is partnering with MetLife to build the new 350 room hotel
-They are currently seeking a 7-year, $627 million loan to refinance the existing debt on the property
-$180 million of that would be a construction loan for the new hotel
-The Swan and Dolphin hotels generated $35.5 million of net operating income last year, up from $25 million in 2016 (guess those renovations paid off!). Occupancy last year was 91%
-Tishman has a land lease which runs through 2041 with two 25-year extension options
Thanks for sharing!
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
-The Swan and Dolphin hotels generated $35.5 million of net operating income last year, up from $25 million in 2016 (guess those renovations paid off!). Occupancy last year was 91%
Their cost of rooms have gone up significantly in the past 5 years even before the renovation was completed.
 

Disney Dad 3000

Well-Known Member
This is certainly true, but I find an anomaly every once in a while. You can nab Labor Day weekend rooms for $155 a night at the moment. $129 a night if you are a friend or family member of a Marriott Employee.
Saw that too and thought really odd. We stayed Jan '16 for 170/night i believe and Jan '18 same weekend would've been 300
 

TJ Vazquez

Well-Known Member
Saw that too and thought really odd. We stayed Jan '16 for 170/night i believe and Jan '18 same weekend would've been 300
That's exactly what happened to me too! We decided to stay at the Yacht club for the extra 50 bucks a night.

For our Labor Day trip we are only going Friday to Monday so we decided on the Dolphin. All in its about $203 a night including resort fee and parking. For me, that's a bargain for its location and updated rooms. Of course that's the exception not the rule.
 

TJ Vazquez

Well-Known Member
Yeah, last minute fill-the-room deals are great. Booking far in advance... not so much.
Historically, September (and Labor Day Weekend) as well as January (except this year) have always had some type of discounted room, but certainly not like they used to. I remember the days of booking those rooms for $139 a night consistently. Now you have to go to the Disney Springs area for that price.
 
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