Survivor 42 Discussion Thread

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
I'm okay when someone gets take out by advantages if the user plays the advantage well. However, I don't like it when it's random and outside of gameplay (like the do or die twist).
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
I'm okay when someone gets take out by advantages if the user plays the advantage well. However, I don't like it when it's random and outside of gameplay (like the do or die twist).

Yeah, for me the concern here is the sheer volume of advantages. A single idol is fun because it gives players the decision whether to target it, whether to split the vote, etc. If we get to a point where three idols are played at once, it's lopsided and could leave players with almost no room to move, or even sent home without a vote like happened to Cirie.

There's also the randomness of the amulet advantage, which was given to three players exclusively. It's almost a game within a game in that no one else had a chance to be a part of it. At least idols can be found by anyone in most cases. That's a bit random for my liking as well.
 

PUSH

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I'm okay when someone gets take out by advantages if the user plays the advantage well. However, I don't like it when it's random and outside of gameplay (like the do or die twist).
Well from the speculation based on the previews, you aren't going to like next week...
 

PUSH

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Wow, what an episode! The awful Do or Die twist was bailed out by having Lindsay safe. Can you imagine how terrible it would have been had we not gotten that vote? But let's start at the beginning.

Jonathan's stock continues to fall. He is great at knowing what he shouldn't do, but then he can't help himself and does it anyway. It drives me nuts when people use the provider role as a strategy, then get mad at others when they don't bow down to them all the time. Also... how many cases can you see where the provider role does not equal eternal gratitude and a winning game? Yet you still expect that? It's very annoying. It's like you're trying to buy them off with food, rather than doing the hard work of being socially in tune and strategically inclined.

At the challenge, I was surprised Lindsay decided to play. She had no reason to, other than trying to get out Jonathan. But the smart move would have been to sit out and take out Drea, Romeo, or whoever else. She was never in danger. However, I was extremely happy that she was safe. She and Omar are my favorites of the ones remaining. I think one of the two of them wins. Being safe tonight could be a huge boost for her stock with the jury, should she make the final three. And I think she's still lowkey enough compared to Mike and Jonathan, and even Omar since he's running out of places to hide.

I do wonder what would happen if Jonathan was the only one to compete in the challenge. He would technically be the first one out, but also the winner of the challenge. So would there be no do or die? But then that ruins the whole plot of the episode.

Omar once again showed that he is in firm control of the game. It's been so fun to watch. If he manages to pull it off and win, he would be one of the greatest winners ever. Like Kim and Boston Rob level good, only playing with a much better cast. Honestly, I might even say only Tony's game in WaW could rival it. But there's still a lot of game left.

Drea made the fatal mistake of spilling the beans on the Knowledge is Power. You can't trust anyone. If she had kept that to herself, Mike would be gone and she would be without a doubt the front runner to win. It'd still be hard for her to get to the end, but it's still a much better place than sitting on the jury.

Mike still seems like he's not getting to the end. The fellow castaways have said how they say he'll win at the end, but that's not what we're being shown on screen. Perhaps he and Omar are next to each other, and Omar is able to show that he was actually pulling all the strings. But I think it's more likely that Mike is voted out, or perhaps the loser at final four fire making. I think the only way he wins is if he takes out Omar, but even then Omar can still let everyone know he was really the puppet master when he arrives at Ponderosa.

Here are my updated winner rankings...

Tier 1 - Will win if they get to the end
1. Omar

Tier 2 - Solid case to win if they make it
2. Lindsay
3. Mike

Tier 3 - Maybe could win with the right combination of people
4. Maryanne

Tier 4 - Likely won't win
5. Jonathan
6. Romeo

I can't believe we're down to the last two episodes. This season has been spectacular. Without looking at my season rankings, I feel like it's been a top 10 season. The start of the "new era" has been really strong, despite some bad twists and advantages. 41 was a solid season, and 42 has been so much fun.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
Such a seemingly interesting final 7 dynamic with all sorts of possibilities in play...aaaand then Jeff steps in with the stupid game of chance. It wasn't uninteresting and the players seemed into it, so it's not all bad, it just goes against the core of what Survivor is. Twice it's been played incorrectly and twice the player was still safe, which is an interesting statistic.

Of course, as the preview seems to confirm, this perhaps has been the Taku tribe playing together all along with the show seemingly downplaying it, so as not to have a predictable pagonging.

Drea giving away info about her advantage, at a 5-person vote, is baffling.

Did Omar consider voting out Mike I wonder? That would have been the ultimate power move, taking the idol for himself.

Next week is the final chance to play idols, if I'm not mistaken. Lindsay, Maryanne, and Omar(?) will be safe with one additional person potentially immune. Let's guess Jonathan based on track record. Mike or Romeo goes home. Unless Omar returns the idol, in which case he's in real danger.

Once again there will be debate about whether or not the eliminated contestant should be allowed to speak so much, given that they are no longer an active player. Should it be against the rules? Does it matter, as it can't really be enforced (like Mike choosing not to say his idol phrase)? Is it poor sportsmanship to blow up someone's game by pointing out they'll win?
 

RobbOmega

New Member
Hey all, new to the forums here but just recently found this place when I started watching season 41, and now I just got finished getting caught up on 42 and wow, what a fun ride so far.


I suppose I'll just dump a little bit here to catch up so bear with me, I'll try and keep it as brief as I can :).


I definitely feel like Omar, Lindsay and Mike are basically the three players left who can win imo, but I feel that Omar would be the winner if they voted today hands down. If Omar gets voted out and Lindsey and Mike both survive, then I think we have a pretty close and split vote. If only 1 of those three make it to the end, then they might win it unanimously, though maybe Maryanne steals a vote or two. Romeo is drawing dead and Jonathon I think is hurting his chances more and more with each episode, though maybe the edit has something to do with how we have felt about him over the course of the season.


I was not as "high" on Hai as a lot of other folks were it seems after skimming some previous comments here. I know luck has a lot to do with it, but he got a lot of early credit for some freak bad luck by 2 other players not having a vote in the very first vote at tribal council, and his opponent he got the better of was again one of the most inept survivors I remember seeing both mentally and physically in Daniel. Hurt is shoulder legit but then volunteered to sit out of all following challenges even though he seemed to forget that and go fishing later, was so insecure he couldn't lie his way out of a paper bag, and if this guy was representing me I would probably ask for a new attorney in court heh. I also think Hai "saving" Romeo and voting out one of his solid numbers in Rocksroy is what sealed his fate and his eventual exit. Rocks and Mike are two guys he probably could have trusted until the end, but for some reason ruined all of that...by a much player in Omar, though I am not sure it felt that "masterful" on the edit just an insecure guy who overthought a simple vote imo.

And related to that vote...what a raw an emotional episode that was, #8. I am a white male myself so obviously I cannot related to what Drea, Chanelle, Maryanne or Rocks go through daily and what they went through that night...but man Drea was right on the money. If Hai and Omar and the other guys just voted out Romeo like they most likely should have, then Drea would have been blindsided and gone that episode...but again so people may call it coincidence...but you have to play with your gut and her visceral reaction turned otu to be 100% correct. The vote should have easily been Romeo and Tori that night, but was going to end up being blindsides of Rox and Drea...definitely some food for subconscious thought.

Even before that Drea was one of my favorites, but as a threat I figured Omar would be able to get her out with the game he has played, but I am glad I got to see some more gameplay from her.

I also want to comment that they couldn't have picked a better person for exile then rocks. After seeing Erika struggling and shivering last season, we got to see a person go to exile, make a shelter, explore...just a refreshing viewing experience for that gimmick. I also don't like the hourglass idea in a vacuum, but this season it really helping shake up that episode and give us the viewers a better time...while perhaps not being the fairest for the players themselves. I hope they go away from this for the next full seasons, but it isn't the worst thing I have seen.

I also do enjoy the prisoners dilemma. While the walking up the hill and talking isn't necessarily the most compelling, this has led to some missing votes and drastically altered tribals because of it. I still don't think that extra vote is really worth that risk, but it sounds good to the players enough that they try and risk it so this has led it to be a net positive for me as well.

After saying all this.

Think Omar deserves this win so far so will be routing for him, with Lindsey and Mike essentially tied for 2nd/3rd. I am happy Maryanne has gotten this far and she isn't out of the running just yet, and while I don't think she is a threat currently if she can somehow get Omar and one of Mike/Lindsay out then perhaps there is a chance to catch all the way back up.

Even though my opinion has dropped drastically of Jonathon, I am actually kind of happy one of the big strong guys has made it this far. generally the big physical threats only make it a vote or two after the merge (with skinny ozzy / Xander types sticking around). Also happy an older guy in Mike made it this far too, pretty fun remaining group.
 

PUSH

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Wow, this episode was terrible for everyone except Maryanne. I would say Lindsay had another great episode for the first half, but it was terrible for her in the second half.

The immunity challenge was another nail-biter between Lindsay and Jonathan. I have a feeling they're either making fire against each other, or are going up against each other at the final Tribal Council. It just seems like destiny at this point.

The vote did not go Lindsay's way. At first glace that seems horrible for her, but as I've spent a few minutes thinking it through, I'm not sure it is. She is no longer in a pair. And now Maryanne has the latest "wow" move. So I could see Jonathan and Mike wanted to target Maryanne. I could also see Maryanne wanting to team up with Lindsay and Romeo to make a final three pact. I think this could almost lesson Lindsay's threat level enough to get her to the final three. It does look really bad that she didn't play her amulet for Omar, though. I don't think that will sit well with the jury. A possible move she could make it pretending it's good at the final five, and she just lied to them before. But I think that's unlikely.

This vote was all Maryanne. She pulled off an amazing move, despite nobody wanting to entertain her idea. Her move makes literally everyone else on the tribe look awful. She must have had some reason to think Lindsay may not play her idol for her, otherwise the move just doesn't make tons of sense. I guess she could be thinking she's safe anyway, so who cares if it doesn't work out. She'll still be here.

This is the most wide open of a final five I can remember. Every single player has had flaws. Some more than others. But they've all had really strong components to their games, too. At this point, I'm thinking it's either Lindsay or Maryanne. I wonder if that's the two the jury is deciding between at the end.

We know Mike is at least making fire. However, I'm not sure how seriously people are taking him. There's been a lot of talk about him being a threat, but they never actually take the shot. If he was that big of a threat, he'd be gone by now. He hasn't done anything special to maneuver his way out of the spotlight. They just decide it's not worth it to take him out yet. Same for Jonathan.

This has been my hardest rankings yet. I'm dropping the tiers for this last one, because I feel like at least three of them are on an even playing field, but there's no clear frontrunner.

1. Lindsay - I think she has the best resume. She has been social, strategic, and physical. She's been the total package.
2. Maryanne - Her move tonight was brilliant, but I feel like the majority of the game, she's been playing the goat role and has had no agency in the game. However, I do think it's possible that's on editing. The edited her pretty heavily as a goat early on.
3. Mike - I was ready to think Mike was back in business at the start of this episode, but then he quickly came back down to earth. He has played a very flawed game. I love Mike, but as a winner he'd be quite lackluster. He's preached an honest, loyal game, but he's backstabbed almost all of his allies, and he can't really take credit for any moves.
4. Jonathan - He's had a similar game to Mike, only I don't think he's even close to being on the same social level. He has never had much agency strategically. People seem to be annoyed by him socially. He only has his physical game, which Lindsay has honestly matched or even outperformed.
5. Romeo - Romeo winning would have the same shock value as a Natalie White win.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
Maryanne's play was absolutely genius IF this is what she planned:
1. Have the majority votes on Omar.
2. If Lindsey plays an idol for Omar, they vote again and Jonathan goes (she votes with Omar and Lindsey while Mike votes for Romeo).
3. Maryanne still has an idol to play at final 5.

An even smarter play for her would have been the following:
1. Convince Omar and Lindsey that she is voting with them for Jonathan.
2. Convince Jonathan and Mike that she is voting with them for Romeo.
3. Actually vote with Romeo using her extra vote for Omar. That ways he ensures that Omar doesn't play an idol.

Right now, there's how I see it.
Mike-has good relationships but would try to take credit for moves that others planned for him (Omar and Maryanne.) This may not fare well for him unless he's against Jon and Romeo.
Jonathan-will play the provider card. He hasn't been as dominant in individual challenges as one would think and his pre-merge performance means squat now. He has ZERO strategy to defend.
Lindsey-very likeable and loved by everyone. Her best defense would be to have beaten Jonathan in a few challenges. Strategy is very iffy.
Maryanne-she can play the total "underestimated" angle. Tonight's TC was brilliant. She has better strategy than Jonathan, Lindsey, Romeo, and depending on how the jury sees it, Mike. So she could win that now that Omar is gone.
Romeo-he's got nuttin'
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
Maryanne with amazing moves: the blindside of Omar, keeping her idol a secret, acquiring "double immunity", and the reverse spin to un-dizzy herself.

Maryanne now has arguably the move of the season under her belt and is in a good spot with the jury. She also had the big social move which people will respect. Survivor is a social game and that was an action that transcends the game. Maybe it won't be a consideration as being "outside of gameplay" but it can't hurt.

Watching Mike and Jonathan want to "play it safe" was crazy when it's the final six. Maryanne was spot on with her assessment of who needed to go and that it had to happen now.

My initial instinct is that Lindsay should have played her idol on Omar as there's a chance that would have prompted an idol flush or two. I get not wanting an idol to be released and not knowing who has it, but it was a misread to think the amulet with its' final six restriction would turn into a regular idol valid at the final five. Again, Maryanne keeping quiet was smart. If it was known there were two additional idols, Lindsay is more likely to play the amulet on Omar IMO.

I also agree that Lindsay lowering her threat level here could very well get her through.

My prediction at this point is a Lindsay/Maryanne/Romeo final 3 with Romeo getting zero votes. Romeo deciding a tie breaker would be crazy and I would kind of love that from an ironic standpoint. Unless I'm miscounting, the final jury will be 8 people?
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
Yes, Mike and her have idols for the final 5. Asking either Jonathan or Lindsay win immunity, it could be down to one of them or Romeo.
Okay thanks. So both Mike and Maryanne are in the final 4. Assuming Romeo is seen as the ultimate goat, it will be either Lindsey or Jonathan leaving in the final 5. If one of them wins immunity (likely) the other is doomed. No shot in the dark past final 6.

And to top that off, nobody knows about Maryanne's idol. Let's hope she can keep her mouth shut about it. In hindsight, it was a good idea for her to let each side know about the extra vote because it made them both feel comfortable.
 

RobbOmega

New Member
Ok finally got to watch this episode off the ole DVR, what a crazy way for Omar to go.

The end voting results being split the way it was actually worked out perfect for Maryanne honestly, though again the edit would have you believe that Jonathan and Mike decided to vote Romeo even without Maryanne agreeing to?


I guess the options for how that conversation ended are:


1. Maryanne agreed with them to go Romeo, but then threw 2 votes on Omar and trusting that Romeo would vote Omar (most likely i would have thought in a vacuum)

2. Jonathan and Mike Agreed to vote with Maryanne, but then decided to just vote Romeo anyway...seems kind of pointless (most likely honestly based on the edit)

3. No agreement, they just left and voted however they all wanted....which seems like a really dumb move by most, especially Mike and Jonathan. Not so dumb for Maryanne, she just had to hope either Mike / John or Romeo went with her, and Romeo jumped on board (Romeo would have been safe either way, his vote was the swing)

4. Somehow (and not shown in the edit so possible, though unlikely) Maryanne, Mike, or Jonathan did the math and wanted to split the vote the way it came out in case of idols. This doesn't make the most sense either though because then the re-vote is between Jonathan and Romeo, and most likely Maryanne wouldn't go to rocks for Jonathan and he gets sent out anyways. However Maryanne has an idol, so no real blowback for taking her shot.


Ultimately as most said, not the cleanest strategy edited and not the finest hour for many. Seems like Omar and Lindsay underestimated Maryanne or just had too much faith in Romeo. I also don;t understand why Lindsay wanted to just keep going with Omar to the end, so this move is a blessing in disguise for her...though Omar being sent out looks bad for her in terms of resume...biggest threat removed and you had nothing to do with it other then not playing your amulet. Maybe if she had an edit stating "I am not voting Omar out, but not playing an amulet because it wouldn't bother me if he got sent home" then I would feel different, but we didn't get that.


My thoughts on how this impacts the finale:


I kind of disagree this "lowers Lindsay's threat level" like others suggested here. I think this makes her the next target by the most strategic mind in the game left, which turns out to be Maryanne. Mike and Jonathan...I am not sure they will ever turn on each other. The only reason Lindsay wanted Jonathan out was that she had a better chance of just winning immunity to the end.

I truly think Lindsay will get voted out unless she wins immunity.

My prediction.

Final 5

Lindsay and Jonathan both will not make it to the end. Whichever one of them wins immunity will cause the other to be voted out (if someone else wins immunity then who knows, but my money is on one of these two).

Mike plays an idol and survives regardless

Romeo isn't a threat

Maryanne has an idol

Final 4:

John / Lindsay wins immunity, picks Romeo to the end

Maryanne and Mike make fire

Final Winner:

50% Lindsay

45% Maryanne

5% Mike

I think the jury really respected Omar and the game he played, and I think Maryanne will get a TON of credit for ousting him. She also hasn't really made many enemies, backstabbed many folks, I think the jury genuinely likes her which is bad news for Mike which that was his only real chance for votes since his strategy game has kind of stalled out. Jonathan and Romeo I think will have trouble getting any votes
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
I'm glad this came down to a strategic vote, and not Omar getting advantaged out.

My only misgiving is that Drea shouldn't have blown up Omar's game after she was voted out. Maybe everyone already knew he was a threat, but I don't like it. It should be up to him to reveal or hide his role in that move, to the degree one can.

The dream move would be Mike actually playing his idol for Maryanne as he said he would, and then she turns around and plays hers for someone else, sending Mike home.

Plurality votes like this are fun because the players have the power to save themselves. Had Lindsay and Omar voted for Romeo, they are safe.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
Okay thanks. So both Mike and Maryanne are in the final 4. Assuming Romeo is seen as the ultimate goat, it will be either Lindsey or Jonathan leaving in the final 5. If one of them wins immunity (likely) the other is doomed. No shot in the dark past final 6.

And to top that off, nobody knows about Maryanne's idol. Let's hope she can keep her mouth shut about it. In hindsight, it was a good idea for her to let each side know about the extra vote because it made them both feel comfortable.

The downside of modern Survivor, the final five vote will have little to do with strategy.

Idols and advantages keep people on their toes, and help avoid boring pagonging periods, but I want those final votes. I wish they'd make idols expire sooner and get rid of fire making. The international shows have avoided some of these pitfalls and delivered really interesting endgames as a result.

Maryanne should theoretically keep her idol a secret, because she can draw votes and really have influence over who goes home. However, as you said, since the decision really may come down to which of Jonathan or Lindsay isn't immune, does it really matter if she reveals it or not? Playing it is the splashier move if she does get votes, so there's that, but the outcome is the same either way,
 

RobbOmega

New Member
I'm glad this came down to a strategic vote, and not Omar getting advantaged out.

I mean, it kind of was Advantaged out, just instead of an idol it was Maryanne using her extra vote. In the end either she didn't convince Mike and Johnathan to vote with her, or they agreed to split (that was not shown on the edit).
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
I mean, it kind of was Advantaged out, just instead of an idol it was Maryanne using her extra vote. In the end either she didn't convince Mike and Johnathan to vote with her, or they agreed to split (that was not shown on the edit).

Without the extra vote it's a 2-2-2 tie, with Mike, Lindsay, and Maryanne voting again. If Mike was with Maryanne all along, Omar still goes. If not, Maryanne still has some control with her two votes and probably gets her way regardless.

The extra vote in this case made Maryanne's move more decisive and flashy, and that's important. However, I think Omar was going home whether it was in play or not.

On a side note, we never heard about Omar's idol nullifier because it wasn't played, but it explains why there was no hesitation to give the idol back to Mike and he outlines how it impacted him and what an alternate plan would have been.


But I actually think that the biggest thing that led to my downfall actually happened right before Drea left. She told me about Knowledge is Power. I had to figure out what to do in a very short period of time. And my first inclination was to make my priority to keep the idol in the game and know where the idol was. Because I had an immunity idol nullifier that nobody knew about. (Holds up parchment.)

So I was too focused on that. It became the ring to my Gollum. That’s why I was so okay with keeping the idol in the game with a particular person. Jonathan and I found that very early in the game together, and we were not going to tell Lindsay and Maruanne. And then he found out that I told Lindsay, and that was really the domino that let everything go. He told Mike about it, and then Mike turned on me. So it was like this perfect storm. In hindsight, what I should have probably done was, instead of focusing on playing that nullifier at five, I should have just let Drea take Mike’s idol, nullify her out of the game at seven, and then move forward having still having Jonathan and Mike’s trust. But, you know, hindsight is 20/20.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
When I think of "advantaged out" I think of what happened to Cirie in season 34.

In a way, Maryanne was very lucky she didn't push so much that Mike and Jonathan would want her out. Either way, Maryanne had Omar out even if she and Romeo were the only ones voting. All she really had to do was make Lindsey and Omar think she was voting with them. She had Romeo. She didn't need to bother with Mike or Jonathan. Maybe pass the suggestion along but not push it too much.
 

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