Rumor Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

[DznyRktekt]

Ralph is out last I heard. No replacement approved yet.

Replacement: Stitch's galactic, chili dog character dinner. Only $69 per adult and $67 for children. Separate theme park admission required.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Ralph is out last I heard. No replacement approved yet.

Interesting. Are they rethinking what direction to go with the land?

 

[Jones14]

Ralph is out last I heard. No replacement approved yet.

Is ralph out of tomorrowland entirely? Or just Stitch?

 

[jt04]

Thanks. I'm here all week.

 

[Slowjack]

He didn't just shelve WRE. Remember the duel BTM and WRE hybrid?

The oil crisis and a pop culture for Space (and an incomplete Tomorrowland) were as much to blame if not more so.

To be fair, WRE was always part of the Thunder Mesa concept, which included an outdoor flume-ish ride as well, so it would have been a triple: WRE, STM, and Splash. But in that case we wouldn't have gotten WDW's PotC (presumably). So total ride count unchanged. One can argue whether WRE would have been better than PotC, but I think the larger loss is the interplay of all three attractions.

 

[Slowjack]

Space Mountain still throws me for a loop.

Only in Paris, Mike.

...I'll let myself out.

 

[marni1971]

To be fair, WRE was always part of the Thunder Mesa concept..

Not exactly. When BTM was approved there was a hybrid of BTM plus WRE, minus the Thunder Mesa trails and flume ride.

Plus the fully fledged Thunder Messa design would have encroached on the current Splash area.

And I doubt they'd have two flume style rides side by side (a personal observation there)

 

[EricsBiscuit]

I'm somewhat surprised that they would consider axing the Steamboats before the Tomorrowland Smogway. Anyhow, do you happen to know if they've ever considered converting the boats to diesel-hydraulic or diesel-electric propulsion to save on fuel and maintenance?

I hope they never convert it from steam. That's what makes her special. From what I've heard, they invested in a new boiler (according to some CMs on the LB) and are installing it next year.

It would be very expensive to fill in ROA and demolish TSI. Plus, if the CMs are correct that they already have another boiler for the steam boat, then she's going nowhere. Also the revenue from the ice cream party helps because it helps cover the cost of maintaining the steamboat.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I disagree that attractions should be relocated. I just think it's a waste of money. Besides, IASW doesn't fit as it feels too cartoony and kid like for Epcot.

If I got the chance to "fix" MK, I would do this:

*add a modern WRE with Shangai Pirates tech between Splash Mountain and Pirates
*add Indiana Jones Temple of the Forbidden Eye in between Swiss Fam and Main Street by bridging the little creek.
*redo of SpectroMagic with Paint The Night technology
*update Wishes
*refurb the following attractions and plus them: SM, Peter Pan, CBJ, BTMRR, and the Liberty Belle. Of course returns should be done for every attraction.

If I could add sonething to TL, it would be behind the raceway. Probably a 20k under the sea attraction like in Disney Sea. It fits the Jules Verne feel. Plus, a great opportunity arises to add a sea food priority Captain Neemo table service restraunt.

I understand the perception that relocating attractions is too costly. There's some truth to that but not as much as you'd think. With Space Mountain there isn't much related to the track itself that should be retained at this point. With it's a small world that would be a bit of an undertaking and it would likely require a new ride system in the new facility (which as far as I know it doesn't need). With Carousel of Progress, we've heard rumors on here (and admittedly they are just rumors) that it does need a significant investment to "repair" and it may be more beneficial to build a new one from scratch.

As for it's a small world's placement. You can argue the cartoon aspect, but I don't buy that. More importantly, think about the message of the attraction. It's celebrating the children of the world and was done so in a World's Fair pavilion. It is literally the perfect attraction ever conceived by Disney to bridge the permanent World's Fair of Future World with the celebration of cultures around the world in World Showcase.

To your other points:

• I'd love another Pirates attraction based on the movies, especially if it allowed the original to revert back to an updated version of the pre-Jack Sparrow days.
• Indiana Jones Adventure is an awesome ride and I'd welcome that too, but could also see that in DHS.
• I'd put Space Mountain and Peter Pan on my list of must refurbs (assuming we're not relocating the former).

 

[RSoxNo1]

Space Mountain still throws me for a loop. There's plenty of expansion space in Tomorrowland without removing it or CoP but I've pondered the idea of that sharing a space with a new Horizons in Epcot as well. It's also a MK original that was here before any other version.

I'd love Sleepy Hollow.

The reason to move Space for me would be having it as part of a larger scale Space area in Future World. By that logic, Astro Orbiter could also be relocated. This also allows for an IP based attraction/coaster such as Tron to take it's place. Space Mountain has name recognition that's on par with many of the IPs that Disney is insistent upon using. It's a way to add something with name recognition to Epcot without it being IP driven.

Also, a Sleepy Hollow attraction would be a great transition between Liberty Square and Fantasyland (as was originally conceived), but at this point I assume there is minimal demand there. What it does is call to a greater argument I've been making in that Disney should look to the area the attraction would be placed first, and then fit the concept to the area. Sleepy Hollow would take that approach. I could also see this as a spot for an original concept that would also bridge that area.

 

[marni1971]

• I'd put Space Mountain on my list of must refurbs (assuming we're not relocating).

We're not. It's a stunning piece of architecture and design. The interior needs the work though. So frustrating it could become the best in the world with comparatively little expenditure.

 

[RSoxNo1]

For the long term financial viability of WDW getting guests to the other parks should be the priority. Otherwise the MK becomes overwhelmed. Especially if they add major new attractions before fixing the other 3 parks. IMO.

You're not wrong, but you're also not 100% right either. More than any other park in central Florida, the Magic Kingdom benefits from the "rising tide raises all boats" approach. Most people that visit central Florida for the latest and greatest attraction, still also visit Magic Kingdom. Because it has been underbuilt since 20K Leagues Under the Sea closed, it is in need of a significant boost in attraction capacity.

What's weird is that it may even be in an operational best interest to have that additional capacity boost NOT be tied to an intellectual property (or at least not a recent one) so that it's not artificially inflated. I do think that thought process is extremely short sighted, but it may be something they're considering.

Remember, internally New Fantasyland was deemed as a capacity boost, but because of the popularity of Potter they tried to sell it as something more.

 

[Slowjack]

Not exactly. When BTM was approved there was a hybrid of BTM plus WRE, minus the Thunder Mesa trails and flume ride.

Plus the fully fledged Thunder Messa design would have encroached on the current Splash area.

And I doubt they'd have two flume style rides side by side (a personal observation there)

Hmm. I may be missing the timeline here. As far as I understood it, the original Thunder Mesa concept, pre-MK-opening, included WRE (of course), plus something like BTM (though not called that) and an outdoor flume ride (though not Splash Mountain). That plan was nixed (or, let's say, continually postponed) by Walker. So you're saying that later, when BTM was approved as a different project, the project would have still included WRE as a second attraction, but not the other elements of Thunder Mesa? Or, by hybrid, do you mean BTM would have been longer and included WRE show elements?

 

[RSoxNo1]

ACTUALLY, I think our version of Space Mountain really is the superior version...It just needs the sound upgrade and new show scenes... The ride itself (though a little rougher now) is a much superior attraction.

The track layout is a superior one to Disneyland's, but the low slung rockets feel every 41 year old weld, rivet and imperfection. If there was a way to have smoother low slung rockets with on board audio and better effects, sign me up. But that's not what the ride is and therefore is extremely inferior to it's Disneyland counterpart. Disneyland's version is among my favorite rides on the planet.

 

[Bocabear]

We're not. It's a stunning piece of architecture and design. The interior needs the work though. So frustrating it could become the best in the world with comparatively little expenditure.

I agree, so basically the concept of moving Space mountain would then include the astro orbiter...at which point you are just rebuilding tomorrowland at EPCOT... and truly the iconic architecture of Space Mountain is timeless and should always remain... as should the Astro Orbiter in some format... Let EPCOT have it's own identity...it does not need Magic Kingdom lands moved to it to make it relevant.
Though I will say building a monumental show building for IASW between Disney Traders and The Port Of Entry... with amphitheater seating integrated onto the backside facing the lake for night time specatcles... could actually work, and would leave a new space to build an epic NEW version of Peter Pan's Flight...expanded and double tracked... the longest and best version of the ride built to date....That would be great!

 

[doctornick]

Remember, internally New Fantasyland was deemed as a capacity boost, but because of the popularity of Potter they tried to sell it as something more.

It was a capacity boost, right? 7DMT should have much higher capacity than SWSA, they doubled Dumbo's capacity and TLM is a pretty high capacity ride as an omnimover. ETWB also add some marginal attraction capacity.

 

[Bocabear]

The track layout is a superior one to Disneyland's, but the low slung rockets feel every 41 year old weld, rivet and imperfection. If there was a way to have smoother low slung rockets with on board audio and better effects, sign me up. But that's not what the ride is and therefore is extremely inferior to it's Disneyland counterpart. Disneyland's version is among my favorite rides on the planet.

there was a way to add audio from what I understand but it required more infrastructure than they wanted to do at the time.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

I understand the perception that relocating attractions is too costly. There's some truth to that but not as much as you'd think. With Space Mountain there isn't much related to the track itself that should be retained at this point. With it's a small world that would be a bit of an undertaking and it would likely require a new ride system in the new facility (which as far as I know it doesn't need). With Carousel of Progress, we've heard rumors on here (and admittedly they are just rumors) that it does need a significant investment to "repair" and it may be more beneficial to build a new one from scratch.

As for it's a small world's placement. You can argue the cartoon aspect, but I don't buy that. More importantly, think about the message of the attraction. It's celebrating the children of the world and was done so in a World's Fair pavilion. It is literally the perfect attraction ever conceived by Disney to bridge the permanent World's Fair of Future World with the celebration of cultures around the world in World Showcase.

To your other points:

• I'd love another Pirates attraction based on the movies, especially if it allowed the original to revert back to an updated version of the pre-Jack Sparrow days.
• Indiana Jones Adventure is an awesome ride and I'd welcome that too, but could also see that in DHS.
• I'd put Space Mountain and Peter Pan on my list of must refurbs (assuming we're not relocating the former).

Good points all around.

also IASW is a boat ride. So instead of adding an attraction that's a boat ride like Rhine River Cruise, they would just move a ride that not everyone likes (I personally love IASW).

 

[marni1971]

Hmm. I may be missing the timeline here. As far as I understood it, the original Thunder Mesa concept, pre-MK-opening, included WRE (of course), plus something like BTM (though not called that) and an outdoor flume ride (though not Splash Mountain). That plan was nixed (or, let's say, continually postponed) by Walker. So you're saying that later, when BTM was approved as a different project, the project would have still included WRE as a second attraction, but not the other elements of Thunder Mesa? Or, by hybrid, do you mean BTM would have been longer and included WRE show elements?

Yes. There was a proposal to build the WRE water ride where Splash is today, right next to the planned BTM. Let me dig out a photo.

 

[RSoxNo1]

It was a capacity boost, right? 7DMT should have much higher capacity than SWSA, they doubled Dumbo's capacity and TLM is a pretty high capacity ride as an omnimover. ETWB also add some marginal attraction capacity.

It was a capacity boost of what immediately preceded it, but perhaps @marni1971 can confirm whether or not it was a capacity boost over MKs peak capacity (which I assume included 20K and the Skyway).

I'm guessing ride capacity is now higher, but 20K closed in 1994 and I assume that prior to the opening of at least Mermaid, MKs attraction capacity peaked on 20K's last day of operation.