Star Wars: The Acolyte

[Jedijax719]

It is just a sad reality that anything that comes out from SW/LFL will already automatically have a heavy bias against it. One of if not THE most popular franchise can only produce titles that already have swarms of people ready to attack it without giving any benefit of the doubt. The expectations for perfection, knowing very well there is no such thing, have become erosive and toxic to what feels like a point of no repair.

 

[CinematicFusion]

It is just a sad reality that anything that comes out from SW/LFL will already automatically have a heavy bias against it. One of if not THE most popular franchise can only produce titles that already have swarms of people ready to attack it without giving any benefit of the doubt. The expectations for perfection, knowing very well there is no such thing, have become erosive and toxic to what feels like a point of no repair.

You're overthinking it and getting too down on yourself. A good story wins the day every time. If Acolyte is great, word of mouth will spread, and it will be recognized for its quality. The idea that anything from SW/LFL is automatically met with heavy bias isn't entirely accurate. Look at how well-received Rogue One was—it had a diverse cast and a strong female lead, and people loved it because it was a good story. Expectations for perfection can be high, but a compelling narrative and well-crafted characters will always stand out and win over audiences. Focus on the quality of the content, and everything else will follow.

 

[DKampy]

No one complained about the diversity in Rogue One and its female lead; it was widely praised for its strong cast and compelling story. Yes, audiences do want the fantasy—gifted actors that women and men are attracted to, characters they can aspire to be like. Star Wars has always thrived on its diverse and intriguing characters from different planets across the galaxy.

But yet people are complaining all over the internet about lack of white men in The Acolyte…probably has something to with the person who is leading the ship of that series

 

[CinematicFusion]

But yet people are complaining all over the internet about lack of white men in The Acolyte…probably has something to with the person who is leading the ship of that series

You shouldn't care so much about what people are saying online. People often complain because something feels off to them, but what they really mean is they want a strong, A-list style character that resonates with them. Everyone misses young Harrison Ford, and finding an actor with that kind of charisma is challenging. The real question is whether The Acolyte has that lead character who will resonate with viewers. Fallout had three great leads, which is why it was so successful. We'll find out soon enough if The Acolyte can deliver the same. Complaints about the lack of white men are just noise. What truly matters is whether the show can create memorable characters and tell a compelling story. If it does, those complaints will quickly fade into the background.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I explain that the reception of a particular cultural product is tied to a specific set of cultural, social, and political forces. Your reply - "Oh yeah? What about all these different cultural products that aren't tied to those forces?"

It's incredibly funny that you brought up Gunn. The supposedly powerless "blow hards yapping on Twitter and YouTube" GOT GUNN FIRED FROM A BLOCKBUSTER FRANCHISE for explicitly political reasons. No, they didn't come after Peace Maker very hard - because Peace Maker (an excellent show) was an incredibly niche program with a white male protagonist aimed very firmly at adults. Depending on its content, they are very likely to come after his Superman.

But they won't come after it as hard as they come after Disney products like Star Wars. The current panic, which began to explode in the second half of 2020 for various reasons we can't discuss here, is focused on terror over an inability to reproduce a certain ideology in the young. That's why the target is teachers, libraries, colleges... and Disney. The quality of the content is largely immaterial - the attacks on Acolyte began long before the program debuted. Look at this thread.

Given the events of the last decade, the idea that "blow hards yapping on Twitter and YouTube" are a meaningless sideshow is shockingly naïve. Those "blow hards" played a major part in the most dramatic social realignment in well over half a century. I understand that acknowledging that opens up some very uncomfortable realizations, but... its time to get uncomfortable.

At the risk of stating the obvious, you're not going to get anywhere arguing this point with certain people.

Of course they're going to come back with claims that all criticism is valid and based solely on content, and not part of a larger focused effort.

They know the reality. It's simply a very obvious technique to hide the true intentions behind the portion of the "criticism" that is being undertaken for social reasons, and not a legitimate assessment of the products at hand. It's an obvious technique to make their manufactured criticisms seem valid.

 

[CinematicFusion]

At the risk of stating the obvious, you're not going to get anywhere arguing this point with certain people.

Of course they're going to come back with claims that all criticism is valid and based solely on content, and not part of a larger focused effort.

They know the reality. It's simply a very obvious technique to hide the true intentions behind the portion of the "criticism" that is being undertaken for social reasons, and not a legitimate assessment of the products at hand. It's an obvious technique to make their manufactured criticisms seem valid.

Are you sure about that? It seems like you're overcomplicating things. Isn't it possible that people are just sharing their honest opinions? Claiming that all criticism is part of a larger, focused effort to hide true intentions sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory.

When people criticize something, it's usually because they genuinely have issues with it. The idea that there's a coordinated effort to discredit something for social reasons is a bit far-fetched. Maybe you're just seeing patterns that aren't really there. Critics often focus on content because that's what they care about. If The Acolyte has strong characters and a compelling story, those criticisms will naturally diminish.

Look at the numbers—The Acolyte has 4.8 million viewers, making it the biggest Disney show of 2024. If the show resonates with audiences, those numbers will grow. If it’s not well received, the numbers will fall. It’s as simple as that. Are you sure you’re not just projecting your own suspicions onto others? It’s more straightforward than you’re making it out to be.

 

[Jedijax719]

I'll argue that the same SW content that is getting 27% audience score now would have gotten around a 60-70% score ten years ago. No way to prove that but I stand by my convictions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Exactly. No rock solid evidence. Wouldn’t hold up in a court of law.

The idea that “trolls” are review bombing Star Wars projects is presented with the same type of shaky evidence .

As long as we can agree that in both cases we really have no concrete proof either way, then I’m fine with that.

I appreciate you having a conversation with me on this subject, instead of just dismissing me away as a troll.

Thanks

The reason I know trolls haven’t been bombing Star Wars online is because almost every criticism levied is 100% legitimate…if not blatantly obvious.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Are you sure about that? It seems like you're overcomplicating things. Isn't it possible that people are just sharing their honest opinions? Claiming that all criticism is part of a larger, focused effort to hide true intentions sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory.

When people criticize something, it's usually because they genuinely have issues with it. The idea that there's a coordinated effort to discredit something for social reasons is a bit far-fetched. Maybe you're just seeing patterns that aren't really there. Critics often focus on content because that's what they care about. If The Acolyte has strong characters and a compelling story, those criticisms will naturally diminish.

Look at the numbers—The Acolyte has 4.8 million viewers, making it the biggest Disney show of 2024. If the show resonates with audiences, those numbers will grow. If it’s not well received, the numbers will fall. It’s as simple as that. Are you sure you’re not just projecting your own suspicions onto others? It’s more straightforward than you’re making it out to be.

If you read my post I said that there is a portion of criticism that is being driven by an agenda.

Sometimes it's obvious. People openly criticizing a show whilst openly admitting they haven't watched it.

Sometimes it's not. People will start with the agenda and then seek out reasons to "legitimately" criticize a show.

It's hard to prove the latter happens, because it's often done in an indirect way.

Let's not pretend it doesn't happen though. The increased criticism towards Disney properties in recent history isn't random.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it increased when certain prominent people decided to target Disney.

I suspect you know all of this though.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They know the reality.

Not everyone is in this boat…but the ranks are thinning

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'll argue that the same SW content that is getting 27% audience score now would have gotten around a 60-70% score ten years ago. No way to prove that but I stand by my convictions.

That is probably the most cynical thing I’ve read…

Think about this for a second: you are convinced Star Wars fans don’t want to like Star Wars?

That’s the fringe.

 

[CinematicFusion]

I'll argue that the same SW content that is getting 27% audience score now would have gotten around a 60-70% score ten years ago. No way to prove that but I stand by my convictions.

Over 2500 people got together and coordinated to lowball a TV show? That just isn’t realistic. It’s like saying 2500 people decided to praise a movie on RT without even seeing it. What’s more likely is that some Matrix fans, excited to see Carrie-Anne Moss, were upset when her character dies three minutes into the show, leading to lower scores.

4.3 million people tuned in, and only a very small fraction left a review. If the show is good, the next 5000 reviews will be positive.

 

[DKampy]

You shouldn't care so much about what people are saying online. People often complain because something feels off to them, but what they really mean is they want a strong, A-list style character that resonates with them. Everyone misses young Harrison Ford, and finding an actor with that kind of charisma is challenging. The real question is whether The Acolyte has that lead character who will resonate with viewers. Fallout had three great leads, which is why it was so successful. We'll find out soon enough if The Acolyte can deliver the same. Complaints about the lack of white men are just noise. What truly matters is whether the show can create memorable characters and tell a compelling story. If it does, those complaints will quickly fade into the background.

Personally… I don’t care what people say online…I like what I like… I have disagreed with plenty of other consensus online views of films…for example Argyle…. It was not a great film, but I had fun with the ridiculousness of it all

what I do care about is when people are spreading hateful rhetoric… but I can’t delve into that much here per the guidelines of the forums

I do find it interesting that those people that can’t stand Disney Star Wars would not watch Andor saying they are over Star Wars once the majority of the people who watched Andor said it was the best Star Wars since the original trilogy… but now are back to watching The Acolyte now that they decided they would not like it before the first episode even premiered….that is just bizarre… I saw the first Transformers movie… I could not even finish it… deciding this is not for me…i never watched any of the other ones

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Over 2500 people got together and coordinated to lowball a TV show? That just isn’t realistic. It’s like saying 2500 people decided to praise a movie on RT without even seeing it. What’s more likely is that some Matrix fans, excited to see Carrie-Anne Moss, were upset when her character dies three minutes into the show, leading to lower scores.

4.3 million people tuned in, and only a very small fraction left a review. If the show is good, the next 5000 reviews will be positive.

That’s a pretty good viewer number

 

[CinematicFusion]

If you read my post I said that there is a portion of criticism that is being driven by an agenda.

Sometimes it's obvious. People openly criticizing a show whilst openly admitting they haven't watched it.

Sometimes it's not. People will start with the agenda and then seek out reasons to "legitimately" criticize a show.

It's hard to prove the latter happens, because it's often done in an indirect way.

Let's not pretend it doesn't happen though. The increased criticism towards Disney properties in recent history isn't random.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that it increased when certain prominent people decided to target Disney.

I suspect you know all of this though.

It's interesting that you mention an agenda driving some of the criticism. Deep down, you probably realize that it's really all about the story. While it's true that sometimes people criticize shows they haven't watched, and others might have underlying motives, a truly great story can overcome any agenda-driven critiques.

Let's not pretend that a compelling narrative can't break through any amount of noise or negativity. The increased criticism of Disney properties may coincide with certain figures targeting Disney, but in the end, if the content is exceptional, it will find its audience. No agenda-driven effort can stop a great story from being watched and appreciated.

You likely understand this as well—if a show genuinely captivates its viewers, positive feedback will naturally follow. Instead of focusing on potential agendas, let's remember that the power of storytelling is what truly wins audiences over.

 

[erasure fan1]

Peace Maker (an excellent show) was an incredibly niche program with a white male protagonist aimed very firmly at adults. Depending on its content, they are very likely to come after his Superman.

But wouldn't superman be a white male protagonist with a white male show runner? If Superman is hot garbage or even just mediocre, it's going to take a beating most likely. Why? Because Superman is a beloved character. Jenkins didn't get criticism for WW84 because "female". It was because it was terrible. She got all the credit in the world for the first one because it was great. Echo was criticized not because it was a female protagonist. It just wasn't good. While fallout, geared at the same adult audience, was praised by most everyone. And it also had, wait for it, a female protagonist.

Given the events of the last decade, the idea that "blow hards yapping on Twitter and YouTube" are a meaningless sideshow is shockingly naïve

They're not meaningless. But they are not the driving factor behind Disneys issues. Consistent quality is. It's not naive because there's so many examples that go against what you're saying. You can't say that toxic fans hate Rey because she's female. Then ignore that the same fans love the character Ashoka and had absolutely no problem with Jyn Erso.

 

[CinematicFusion]

That’s a pretty good viewer number

I agree, that’s a pretty good viewer number. Disney must be pleased with 4.3 million viewers. Now, all Disney has to do is deliver a story that resonates with the audience, much like Fallout did. Episode 3 could be the make-or-break episode that determines the show's long-term success.

 

[Jedijax719]

That is probably the most cynical thing I’ve read…

Think about this for a second: you are convinced Star Wars fans don’t want to like Star Wars?

That’s the fringe.

It's not that fans don't want to like SW. It's that there is a very narrow spectrum of material that they would like. And if something doesn't fit that spectrum, they hate it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s always the same thing: Disney is incapable of making crap…therefore small number of trolls and bigots flood the zone and take over the internet

Meanwhile…the “silent majority” loves all this steaming stuff…like the last Jedi

…you’ll just never know cause they say nothing…remember nothing…buy no product…etc etc etc

 

[CinematicFusion]

It's not that fans don't want to like SW. It's that there is a very narrow spectrum of material that they would like. And if something doesn't fit that spectrum, they hate it.

It seems more likely that fans are open to a wide range of material as long as it has a compelling story and well-developed characters. Look at Rogue One and The Mandalorian, both took different approaches but were widely loved because they resonated with audiences.

The idea that fans only accept a narrow spectrum of material might be a bit of an oversimplification. Fans are passionate and have high standards because they care deeply about the franchise. If something doesn't fit their expectations, it’s often because the story or execution didn't meet the mark, not because they are unwilling to embrace new ideas. It's really about delivering a narrative that connects, regardless of the specific approach.