SPOILERS: Avatar 2: The Way of Water (Dec 16, 2022)

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
While I don't think the story itself is better, I thought the character dynamics in The Way of Water were much more interesting than those in the first film. I really liked the Sully kids, especially Kiri and Lo'ak. I also think what they did with Quaritch transformed him from a boring one-dimensional bad guy into a pretty great villain.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Loved it, despite some twists and turns I wasn’t expecting.
Stunning imagery…and 3D visuals are fantastic.
A must see in IMAX 3D.

My one main quibble was how many times the teenage characters call each other ‘Bro’.
Towards the end of the film it really seemed to stand out to me.

I liked Spider the best out of all the new characters.
His backstory was interesting, including the reveal.
Not sure who his mom was…but the dad twist was interesting.

The underwater scenes were beautifully done.
All of the new Pandorian creatures look great and I really liked how the film designers played with the colors in a lot of scenes and settings.
I could type more…but I’m still reeling from the great experience.
I will definitely be seeing this again before it leaves theatres.

-
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
My Review. I put it in spoilers to not take up a bunch of space but its pretty non spoiler.

Avatar: The Way of Water shares a lot in common with its predecessor Avatar (2009). It has jaw dropping gorgeous visual effects, striking action, and a devotion to earnest world building. It's then unfortunate to say it also shares the first film’s paper-thin plot and even weaker character development.

The movie is directed by self-titled King-of-the-World James Cameron and stars Sam Worthington, Zoe Saldana, Sigourney Weaver, Stephen Lang, and Kate Winslet. The film picks up several years after Avatar. Jake Sully (Worthington) lives with his newfound family formed on the extrasolar moon Pandora. Once a familiar threat returns to finish what was previously started, Jake must work with Neytiri and the army of the Na'vi race to protect their home.

There is much to like here. Of course, the main standout is the incredible CGI work to bring this world to life. Throughout the film's runtime I kept forgetting that this world is almost entirely CGI. The beautiful landscapes and natural environments combined with the clear cinematography make this world come alive and feel so real. The returning forest locations from the first film look great but it's when the story moves to Pandora’s Oceans that the time and effort put into this world become apparent. I have never seen water look this good on film. The way it moves, reflections that appear in it, how objects interact with it. The water scenes in this movie are worth the price of the ticket alone. It’s obvious from all Cameron's previous work that he loves water and undersea exploration and you can really tell as his love of the environment is front and center in this movie. Cameron’s crafting of the action scenes, one would argue his bread and butter, is also on point here as well. The action is clear and concise, creating easy to follow sequences that are exciting to sit through. The way Cameron incorporates all the creatures of Pandora in the action as well is very inventive and further shows Cameron's imagination and world building.

However, we now come to the element of the film that just does not work, The Story. It's unfortunate that such a beautiful film is hampered by such a weak plot and narrative punch. If you thought the first film’s story was lacking, you are going to find the same here. The film’s structure and plot exist solely to move our characters to a new setting to explore the ocean. It’s not that there is no story or that it's convoluted, it's just that the story is… well it's just… just. It's the vanilla wafer of film plots. Reading the back of a Brand Flakes box is more interesting than this narrative. OK I get that Cameron intentionally makes his film’s plots accessible to a wide range of people, heck it worked perfectly for Titanic. Romeo and Juliet set aboard a ship sailing to its destiny is a very approachable plot that Cameron was then able to overlay the disaster and study of human nature in a crisis on. However here in the Avatar world this simplistic Family fighting for survival story just feels too small in what is supposed to be this grand epic. It's noticeable here just enough throughout the film’s runtime that when the credits started to roll all I could help but think was “that's it?” It was even more of a shock to then see that 3 people worked on the script that has a story credit from 5 people. How could a story this flimsy need 5 people to come up with? The film is littered with plotlines and characters that are set up but just forgotten. This wouldn't be as big of a sin as it is if not for the fact that it's been 13 years since the first Avatar movie, and that film was criticized for its thin plot. I just would have thought that maybe Cameron and Company would have poured extra time into the narrative to combat those criticisms.

The resolutions to the very few character plot lines are hampered by the obvious sequel setups. The film knows there will be a next one and so it never bothers to wrap up any kind of emotional arc or change in these characters. The closest we get is a new character by the name of Spider (Jack Champion), a human that stayed behind on Pandora after the first film. Throughout the film he is presented with moments that seem to make him question his allegiances to the different authority figures in his life, but the film never goes far enough with him, and in the end his development seems purposely ignored to continue in the sequel. Similarly, our main character Jake Sully faces a character loop instead of an arc, with his motivations coming full circle to line up with his position at the start of the film. This is dangerous in a scripting manner because it could leave your audience detached from the character’s journey throughout the film, leaving the viewer feeling like time was wasted on development that is now pointless.

I feel that I should comment on the runtime of the film, since I know there will be people that don’t like it based solely on the movie being over 3 hours but surprisingly the film did not feel long to sit through. This is no doubt helped by the last hour essentially being one long action sequence. I have to give Cameron the credit here, he does know how to pace a film and keep you distracted by the incredible visuals.

Despite my harsh words towards the narrative side of the film, Avatar: TWoW is still an enjoyable enough time, propped up by its visuals and suspenseful action sequences. I feel like if you were fond of the first one you will like this one as well, but if you had issues in the first one those same issues are back again. I do however feel it is worth seeing on the biggest screen to fully enjoy the visual spectacle the way Cameron intended it.

Avatar: The Way of Water final score: 7.5/10
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
I think we are going to end up with Spider being the bad guy. I think there will be a redemption story somewhere in the future.
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
I think we are going to end up with Spider being the bad guy. I think there will be a redemption story somewhere in the future.
I think Quaritch will be either somehwat redeemed or will become less one-dimensionally evil as the movies go on. I think Spider will shift alliances multiple times over the next few movies.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
I think we are going to end up with Spider being the bad guy. I think there will be a redemption story somewhere in the future.
This character's story will be an interesting one.

He definitely has a complicated relationship with Kiri that's only hinted at but I assume, there none the less, because it will become more significant in the future.

He'll have to face the Mowgli/Tarzan dilemma at some point.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
My Review. I put it in spoilers to not take up a bunch of space but its pretty non spoiler.

Avatar: The Way of Water shares a lot in common with its predecessor Avatar (2009). It has jaw dropping gorgeous visual effects, striking action, and a devotion to earnest world building. It's then unfortunate to say it also shares the first film’s paper-thin plot and even weaker character development.

The movie is directed by self-titled King-of-the-World James Cameron and stars Sam Worthington, Zoe Saldana, Sigourney Weaver, Stephen Lang, and Kate Winslet. The film picks up several years after Avatar. Jake Sully (Worthington) lives with his newfound family formed on the extrasolar moon Pandora. Once a familiar threat returns to finish what was previously started, Jake must work with Neytiri and the army of the Na'vi race to protect their home.

There is much to like here. Of course, the main standout is the incredible CGI work to bring this world to life. Throughout the film's runtime I kept forgetting that this world is almost entirely CGI. The beautiful landscapes and natural environments combined with the clear cinematography make this world come alive and feel so real. The returning forest locations from the first film look great but it's when the story moves to Pandora’s Oceans that the time and effort put into this world become apparent. I have never seen water look this good on film. The way it moves, reflections that appear in it, how objects interact with it. The water scenes in this movie are worth the price of the ticket alone. It’s obvious from all Cameron's previous work that he loves water and undersea exploration and you can really tell as his love of the environment is front and center in this movie. Cameron’s crafting of the action scenes, one would argue his bread and butter, is also on point here as well. The action is clear and concise, creating easy to follow sequences that are exciting to sit through. The way Cameron incorporates all the creatures of Pandora in the action as well is very inventive and further shows Cameron's imagination and world building.

However, we now come to the element of the film that just does not work, The Story. It's unfortunate that such a beautiful film is hampered by such a weak plot and narrative punch. If you thought the first film’s story was lacking, you are going to find the same here. The film’s structure and plot exist solely to move our characters to a new setting to explore the ocean. It’s not that there is no story or that it's convoluted, it's just that the story is… well it's just… just. It's the vanilla wafer of film plots. Reading the back of a Brand Flakes box is more interesting than this narrative. OK I get that Cameron intentionally makes his film’s plots accessible to a wide range of people, heck it worked perfectly for Titanic. Romeo and Juliet set aboard a ship sailing to its destiny is a very approachable plot that Cameron was then able to overlay the disaster and study of human nature in a crisis on. However here in the Avatar world this simplistic Family fighting for survival story just feels too small in what is supposed to be this grand epic. It's noticeable here just enough throughout the film’s runtime that when the credits started to roll all I could help but think was “that's it?” It was even more of a shock to then see that 3 people worked on the script that has a story credit from 5 people. How could a story this flimsy need 5 people to come up with? The film is littered with plotlines and characters that are set up but just forgotten. This wouldn't be as big of a sin as it is if not for the fact that it's been 13 years since the first Avatar movie, and that film was criticized for its thin plot. I just would have thought that maybe Cameron and Company would have poured extra time into the narrative to combat those criticisms.

The resolutions to the very few character plot lines are hampered by the obvious sequel setups. The film knows there will be a next one and so it never bothers to wrap up any kind of emotional arc or change in these characters. The closest we get is a new character by the name of Spider (Jack Champion), a human that stayed behind on Pandora after the first film. Throughout the film he is presented with moments that seem to make him question his allegiances to the different authority figures in his life, but the film never goes far enough with him, and in the end his development seems purposely ignored to continue in the sequel. Similarly, our main character Jake Sully faces a character loop instead of an arc, with his motivations coming full circle to line up with his position at the start of the film. This is dangerous in a scripting manner because it could leave your audience detached from the character’s journey throughout the film, leaving the viewer feeling like time was wasted on development that is now pointless.

I feel that I should comment on the runtime of the film, since I know there will be people that don’t like it based solely on the movie being over 3 hours but surprisingly the film did not feel long to sit through. This is no doubt helped by the last hour essentially being one long action sequence. I have to give Cameron the credit here, he does know how to pace a film and keep you distracted by the incredible visuals.

Despite my harsh words towards the narrative side of the film, Avatar: TWoW is still an enjoyable enough time, propped up by its visuals and suspenseful action sequences. I feel like if you were fond of the first one you will like this one as well, but if you had issues in the first one those same issues are back again. I do however feel it is worth seeing on the biggest screen to fully enjoy the visual spectacle the way Cameron intended it.

Avatar: The Way of Water final score: 7.5/10

Totally agree.

When the reviews for this came out and said it improved on the story and character development of the first I was certainly pleased to hear it.

Then it turns out, it really didn't. This movie is fun, but really is more of the same.
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
Totally agree.

When the reviews for this came out and said it improved on the story and character development of the first I was certainly pleased to hear it.

Then it turns out, it really didn't. This movie is fun, but really is more of the same.
It's just crazy to me how many plotlines were just dropped to spend more time in the water. Plus the fact that every major plot development happened because 1 or more of the kids was being a dumb*** is just lazy writing.
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
It's just crazy to me how many plotlines were just dropped to spend more time in the water. Plus the fact that every major plot development happened because 1 or more of the kids was being a dumb*** is just lazy writing.
It's probably because some of the plotlines are going to be continued in the sequels.

That being said, I definitely got the impression that many major moments of the film were left on the cutting room floor for time. Some scenes ended a bit abruptly.
 

gerarar

Premium Member
My only real gripe is where did the Metkayina clan people go during the fight? The Sullys needed help as the ship was sinking yet they were nowhere to be found. Reya was thrown overboard then stayed with the dead brother Neteyam. Where are her parents looking for her in all of this?

The final fight was like an hour long, but it still lacked some key figures, despite how emotional it is. Turned from a defeat the sky people to a Sully family vs Quaritch fight.

There were definitely a lot of "bro's" but may not be as much anymore with the older brother passing. Although Spider and Lo'ak sometimes call each other bro, so...

Spider seems to have some loyalty left for the Sullys, but how long will that last? He was hesitant to go with his dad. Plus I think some of it was damaged when Neytiri used him as a pawn for his father, plus Jake and her don't see him as family much compared to the kids. So it's probably expected that Spider will join his father in the sequel or at least switch sides when that loyalty gets broken.

I also kept asking is what happened to their Ikran's? At least we got to see one of them in the final fight lol
 

mysto

Well-Known Member
Spider is a weather vane, "which ever way the wind blows". I think it's strange so many cited him as an interesting character.

I guess he is kind of interesting for that very reason, people who will "flip" sides are pretty common. Typical human.
 

Disneyfanman

Well-Known Member
Saw it on a standard screen. Loved it. Going to see it again in IMAX 3d. It doesn’t exceed the first one in story or excitement, but Cameron pulled it off. We all thought it was exceptional. The subplot about the “whales” had me in tears.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Spider is a weather vane, "which ever way the wind blows". I think it's strange so many cited him as an interesting character.

I guess he is kind of interesting for that very reason, people who will "flip" sides are pretty common. Typical human.
I thought it was a little weak that he could flip sides so easily. Here is the bad guy that wants to murder his family and destroy the world he can't leave but because he is his father he switches. Hopefully, there will be more development in the next one when Jake kills Quaritch and Spider snaps like Anakin.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
The plot needs to move in a very different direction in the next film. They can't just do different settings and have the same plot. There needs to be a brand new enemy and, maybe, eventually have the Navii work WITH the humans to eradicate that enemy. Perhaps Spider is the key to bringing both species together. If they continue to recycle, this franchise isn't going anywhere.
 

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