News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The person I replied to said he didnt care about the theme. So I was saying the ride meaning the ride mechanism, wasnt going to change.

I'm the person you replied to. You misunderstood my point.

I care about the theme -- that's the most important part of the ride. I suppose I could have said I don't particularly care about the IP to be clearer, but my overall point is that it's unlikely the retheme will result in a ride that's anywhere near as impressive/well-designed as the current attraction because the theming will be worse. If they themed it as well as the current ride, then it would be fine.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
That is nice to hear as an English Teacher myself.
I am just of the mindset that captilism just did not exist in cultures for a long time and if given the chance those cultures would have more published versions, but it is not wrong that other cultures did not do it the same way when oral traditions were the way there. Obviously not during JCH's time but If someone comes and does a better more relevant version of those stories, they will win that popularity and financial game. It tends to work with whoever does it best. Ultimately that is why Walt Disney, this white American Guy has the most.popular versions of.mpst.lf.tjee stories. His teams dkd the best versions of the cultural eternal truths.


Sounds like an impressive thesis!
I think it’s important to also consider that there was almost no way that some publisher would have come by and offered slaves to come together and have someone write down the stories, all while getting a piece of the profit. That just wouldn’t have happened, and even if they did share the stories with a publisher, their masters would have gotten the money, not them. Quite different from European folklorists who weren’t slaves and had their stories appropriated and changed over time. They were at least remembered. The slaves? Not so much. And then to create a character like Remus, who is self-hating and very much an Uncle Tom figure doesn’t really help. And then more appropriation comes along the way, African Americans are still suffering, and so on and so on. These circumstances are vastly different, in my opinion.

Thank you. I enjoyed doing the research and putting everything together, but I don’t think I ever want to do that again. Lol.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Thank you. I enjoyed doing the research and putting everything together, but I don’t think I ever want to do that again. Lol.

I imagine you did a great enough job where you will not have to!

On your first point, I think this is why JCH did a lot of what he felt was good will and likely did some progressive good for the time and Walt Disney in some sense as well. We of course can look at it through a near century or plus levels of progress to the majority of people and wish it was more. The new South Progressive movement was huge for it's time in that sense.
 
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yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Do you think Bugs Bunny is another form of the Trickster? That should explain that. No need to insult my intellect.
Your extreme take, which was any story based on tales of stories from a marginalized group adapted for profit are inherently wrong. That would include mother goose and the likes of other published adaptions of folk tales and legends.
What they said was wrong was to take stories from marginalized people and profit from that. You're visibly twisting their words and then calling that interpretation "extreme" - but their opinion isn't extreme if you actually read it as stated.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
What they said was wrong was to take stories from marginalized people and profit from that. You're visibly twisting their words and then calling that interpretation "extreme" - but their opinion isn't extreme if you actually read it as stated.

The extreme part would be adapting cultural work into your own not being allowed. I explained how I misunderstood and I and others often have a different outlook that it was not intentionally done with mallice therefore.many do not find the Uncle Remus stories inherently wrong.

If you actually read the rest you would see the discussion after.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
If the retheme sucks I'll absolutely be vocal about it. Tiana deserves the best ride she could possibly have, especially being the turning point for the modern day Disney Princess. But removing an IP with a controversial history is absolutely necessary with that as well. They are taking their time with changes which is absolutely a good sign for me.

If you think frozen ever after was done well or that Mickey and Minnie was done well I’m sure you will enjoy this. To me that is what we’re getting. There simply not going to want to spend the money to make something Jaw dropping.
 
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TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
It's all pretty predictable after awhile with modern Disney.


Zip finale being dig a little deeper jubilee. Music, limited figures, projections, some being fireworks.

It is predictable but if done well (but "if" I know) it could make for a really enjoyable experience.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
It is predictable but if done well (but "if" I know) it could make for a really enjoyable experience.

This is why Splash mountain is being used after all. The bones of the attraction both industrially as well as rockwork and background scenic as long as maintenance is done properly are perfect. They are just going to implement the tones that are already there.

It will likely fall lazy besides the obvious animatronic and figures to screens with all the little stuff not getting an equal or better replacement. The ride is designed to go under the visible water level as hidden by the mess of briar patch.
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
If you think frozen ever after was done well or that Mickey and Minnie was done well I’m sure you will enjoy this. To me that is what we’re getting. There simply not going to want to spend the money to make something Jaw dropping.
This is EXACTLY what I’m worried about…the comparison between Splash and the other 2 are light years apart.
 

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
This is why Splash mountain is being used after all. The bones of the attraction both industrially as well as rockwork and background scenic as long as maintenance is done properly are perfect. They are just going to implement the tones that are already there.

It will likely fall lazy besides the obvious animatronic and figures to screens with all the little stuff not getting an equal or better replacement. The ride is designed to go under the visible water level as hidden by the mess of briar patch.

And honestly I think the vast majority of guests will be very happy with it.

I friend just went with a school group and of the 140 kids none of them had any idea of the characters or what was going on in Splash Mountain - but they still really enjoyed the the ride system .... So keep the bones but put in a more known/popular IP and vast majority of guests will be very happy (while some are very much not)
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
And honestly I think the vast majority of guests will be very happy with it.

I friend just went with a school group and of the 140 kids none of them had any idea of the characters or what was going on in Splash Mountain - but they still really enjoyed the the ride system .... So keep the bones but put in a more known/popular IP and vast majority of guests will be very happy (while some are very much not)

Not many kids in the early 90s, myself included knew either, but the ride is legendary because it is good.
No one is doubting many will think good enough, modern Disney banks on it, but you lose another above and beyond most of the time due to it.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
I’m sure it has been discussed, but I’m curious… the ride being a sequel, are we assuming the two most memorable characters from the film (besides, arguably, Tiana herself), Facilier and Ray, will be absent or, at the least, very minor components of the ride?
 

disneyglimpses

Well-Known Member
Just popping back in here to say that I would be pretty surprised if they didn't wait out the holiday season before closing Splash. It would make little sense especially when they could use the extra capacity right now. They also don't want a slew of attention (YouTubers, bloggers, etc.) on Splash's closure and not on Tron's opening.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Until he was told it was, then... I guess it was intentional.
This is probably going a little too far off track, but just last night for a project I'm working on I was reading through the book Tender Comrades that is basically a collection of oral history interviews from blacklisted Hollywood artists from various fields. One is screenwriter Maurice Rapf who was brought in to Disney specifically to work on Song of the South. Interestingly, he said he told Walt during their first meeting that he didn't think Walt should make the movie as it was going to be an 'Uncle Tom movie' and he remembers Walt's response as "That's exactly why I want you to work on it - because I know you don't think I should make the movie. You're against Uncle Tomism, and you're a radical. That's exactly the kind of point of view I want brought to the film."

Rapf ultimately agreed with criticisms of the film, including his own work on it. Apparently, though, one of the things he suggested was that the white family be poverty-stricken to make the Reconstruction context clearer and have the father leave to earn money to pay his workers. Not sure how much that would have addressed the issues at the end of the day, but an interesting insight I happened to stumble upon unexpectedly. I did also think it was interesting that the politically conservative Walt specifically sought out a 'radical' left-wing perspective... this was prior to his participation in HUAC, however!

Rapf's (generally positive) impressions of Walt as he stayed on to work on Cinderella are also interesting.
 
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TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
Not many kids in the early 90s, myself included knew either, but the ride is legendary because it is good.
No one is doubting many will think good enough, modern Disney banks on it, but you lose another above and beyond most of the time due to it.

Obviously that is the big question - optimistically with so many eyes on it, I hope they really do it right - but we shall see
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I’m sure it has been discussed, but I’m curious… the ride being a sequel, are we assuming the two most memorable characters from the film (besides, arguably, Tiana herself), Facilier and Ray, will be absent or, at the least, very minor components of the ride?
They said there would be new characters.
If Lottie and Eudora are absent, I am done.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
They said there would be new characters.
If Lottie and Eudora are absent, I am done.
By new characters, I suspect we’re talking about the existing Splash Mountain AAs in slightly different outfits. So possibly no Ray, no Facilier, not even the frog forms that the protagonists inhabit for most of the film. The sequel format is a bad idea, even worse then in Frozen Ever After.

There is certainly good reason to replace Splash with a Frog ride, but if they are going to do so Disney needs to level the entire structure and start from scratch. The fact that they aren’t going to do that is more proof, if any were needed, that current Disney design philosophy doesn’t understand theming - they see it as a bucket of paint that can be applied to any structure rather then something that needs to be wound into every step of the design process, from the placement of a ride to the nature of the physical ride experience to the shape of the structure. To see how little Disney understands this, we need only look at GotG - even among the many posters that enjoy the physical experience of the (very expensive) ride, the story and theme are secondary at best, badly implemented at worst - a thin veneer on a generic structure, so detached that they seem like they could be swapped out overnight. I love MMRR, but it’s placement and queue (up to the pre-show) is an uninspired mess slapped into an unsuitable space. Much of the spirit of Frog comes from the urban setting of New Orleans - where will that be in the ride? Is the Louisiana swamp known for its mountains?

The motives behind this change are good, but the half-hearted way Disney is approaching it reeks of insincerity. Go big. Rip it out and start again - with a massive budget.
 
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