News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
How do we know these are not the "consultants" Carter mentioned in her interview?
They’re not the consultants because they’re changing the movie to PatF. No need to consult people on the Brer tales, Anansi, Adanko, etc. if they’re not moving forward with a project surrounding those stories and characters. This is a PatF ride. They’re consulting people on things like jazz music, Creole and Cajun culture/African American culture in New Orleans, etc., probably.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
They have no interest in truly rectifying their very egregious mistakes. They would rather hurt the people whom this actually effects in ways I fear are irreversible. Nothing they have done has been ANY move to actually rectify their egregious mistakes.
100% correct. They’ve had plenty of chances to make it right. This was the most recent opportunity, and once again, they declined. I’d argue it’s cowardice of them. They’re too concerned with their image and the “racist” label.
 

James.Green

Member
Splash Mountain is based on Song of the South, which is based on the the Uncle Remus Tales, which were both appropriated and created by a white American man. Besides this, there are a few obvious differences between the two films that don’t need pointing out. :)

If Disney truly cared about correcting their decades-old mistake, they’d actually consult African and African American folklore experts, as well as historians, to get the stories and characters accurate. They’ve showed no signs of doing this, unfortunately.
Splash Mountain is based on Brer Rabbit stories, which are African American. No matter who else has told those stories, that will always remain a fact. In a sea of European influence, It exposed millions of people to African American Folk Lore. Not only that, but it did that using the best ride, music, animatronics, stories and characters in the parks. Now, it is getting replaced with Disney Approved Black Stories (that are actually based on white stories..)???

They should embrace and celebrate the stories themselves while teaching about some of the problems that came about later in telling those stories. Or just forget uncle Remus, throw him into the dustbin of history, while using the stories themselves (which he had absolutely no hand in creating) to inspire and entertain.

Tiana should get her own mini land somewhere. She shouldn’t be replacing SM. There’s room for multiple Black rides that the parks.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Splash Mountain is based on Brer Rabbit stories, which are African American. No matter who else has told those stories, that will always remain a fact. In a sea of European influence, It exposed millions of people to African American Folk Lore. Not only that, but it did that using the best ride, music, animatronics, stories and characters in the parks. Now, it is getting replaced with Disney Approved Black Stories (that are actually based on white stories..)???

They should embrace and celebrate the stories themselves while teaching about some of the problems that came about later in telling those stories. Or just forget uncle Remus, throw him into the dustbin of history, while using the stories themselves (which he had absolutely no hand in creating) to inspire and entertain.

Tiana should get her own mini land somewhere. She shouldn’t be replacing SM. There’s room for multiple Black rides that the parks.
Splash Mountain is based on the appropriated version of the Brer Tales. That’s a significant and key difference. Joel Chandler Harris is not usually seen as some hero who saved our stories amongst African American literary scholars. If there was no problem, Song of the South wouldn’t have gotten boycotted when it was released and it generally just wouldn’t have the status it has now.

Regarding your other paragraphs, I 100% agree.
 

BrerCountry

Well-Known Member
I do not recall there being any significant edits to the animal/critter portions of the stories. True, the stories tend to have slightly different details depending on who is telling them and the context they are being told in. That is the case for all stories, especially those with origins of oral storytelling.

For instance there are multiple "versions" of the Cinderella story around the world, some more different than others.
The thing with Brer Rabbit is AFAIK, more often than not the stories remain very close to their "original" telling with very minor changes.

I've seen people share the stories word for word in line with the animated segments of Song, sometimes they have more unique stories.
Brer Rabbit for many people, is Brer Rabbit. Most people do not sift through the versions trying to find a "one true brer rabbit", because the stories have never fully "changed" the way people insinuate they have.

Remus is a stereotype, plain and simple and I am not a fan, nor do I feel JCH is a hero. But Brer Rabbit is Brer Rabbit. Whether it's a Tar Baby, a Gum Baby, or a beehive.

Honestly. I'm at the stage of letting the ride go. The stories will continue to live with those who cherish and share them. Disney's moved on, and we should too.

Didn't mean to go way off the rails (and maybe off topic, feel free to remove if so.)
I should go touch grass. 🙃
 

James.Green

Member
Splash Mountain is based on the appropriated version of the Brer Tales. That’s a significant and key difference. Joel Chandler Harris is not usually seen as some hero who saved our stories amongst African American literary scholars. If there was no problem, Song of the South wouldn’t have gotten boycotted when it was released and it generally just wouldn’t have the status it has now.

Regarding your other paragraphs, I 100% agree.
Princess and the Frog is black culture appropriated to fit a European fairy tale by a company mainly run by white men, and yet I still like that movie and see the benefits of it. Removing the only ride at the parks based AA folk lore is a mistake and sends a message that they only have room for one black ride at the parks.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
I do not recall there being any significant edits to the animal/critter portions of the stories. True, the stories tend to have slightly different details depending on who is telling them and the context they are being told in. That is the case for all stories, especially those with origins of oral storytelling.

For instance there are multiple "versions" of the Cinderella story around the world, some more different than others.
The thing with Brer Rabbit is AFAIK, more often than not the stories remain very close to their "original" telling with very minor changes.

I've seen people share the stories word for word in line with the animated segments of Song, sometimes they have more unique stories.
Brer Rabbit for many people, is Brer Rabbit. Most people do not sift through the versions trying to find a "one true brer rabbit", because the stories have never fully "changed" the way people insinuate they have.

Remus is a stereotype, plain and simple and I am not a fan, nor do I feel JCH is a hero. But Brer Rabbit is Brer Rabbit. Whether it's a Tar Baby, a Gum Baby, or a beehive.

Honestly. I'm at the stage of letting the ride go. The stories will continue to live with those who cherish and share them. Disney's moved on, and we should too.

Didn't mean to go way off the rails (and maybe off topic, feel free to remove if so.)
I should go touch grass. 🙃
There are dozens and dozens and dozens of tales that Harris wrote. I believe some of them are true to what he heard from slaves and others are original.

The problem is who is telling the stories. Decades ago, it didn’t matter if a white person appropriated stories from black people for profit. Nowadays, it does matter, and Disney knows this. They clearly don’t want to associate themselves with the appropriator, even if most of the tales he “wrote” are 100% accurate. It’s very evident that if they wanted to pursue the tales, they wouldn’t consult a Joel Chandler Harris expert. They’d go back to the original sources. But, as you stated, they’ve moved on.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Princess and the Frog is black culture appropriated to fit a European fairy tale by a company mainly run by white men, and yet I still like that movie and see the benefits of it. Removing the only ride at the parks based AA folk lore is a mistake and sends a message that they only have room for one black ride at the parks.
Doesn’t matter. People aren’t going to look at PatF and think it’s a European movie. They look at it as a “black” film. Tiana is the first and only black Disney princess. That’s all that matters. PatF is generally free of negative stigma and bad press, unlike SotS. Sure, there are criticisms of the movie, but it’s clearly not SotS and the film and characters will never face the same treatment.

Disney has made up their mind. They want nothing to do with SotS or anything connected to it. Also, Splash is not a “black” ride. Far from it.
 

James.Green

Member
Doesn’t matter. People aren’t going to look at PatF and think it’s a European movie. They look at it as a “black” film. Tiana is the first and only black Disney princess. That’s all that matters. PatF is generally free of negative stigma and bad press, unlike SotS. Sure, there are criticisms of the movie, but it’s clearly not SotS and the film and characters will never face the same treatment.

Disney has made up their mind. They want nothing to do with SotS or anything connected to it. Also, Splash is not a “black” ride. Far from it.
I realize what other people think, that’s why I’m trying to educate people.

But I’m done with this. If Splash Mountain, the only ride in the parks based on African American Folk Characters, isn’t black enough for you and Disney, I don’t know what I can tell you.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I know that my comment is going to be deleted, but I have said this before and I will say it again: if Disney had done this to any 'Western'/ Abrahamic religion, people would be screaming. There's a reason why people say "folklore" instead of "theology" and "oral literature" when referring to Brer Rabbit and related oral literature. People don't care about what the truth is. Disney doesn't care about what the truth is. People are too busy being eager to feel good about themselves over doing absolutely nothing. People are absolutely incapable of critical thinking, and I swear to God, we live in a post-factual society. They are incapable of recognizing very valid and serious flaws in PATF because they are too concerned about looking like some hero instead of doing actual work to dismantle oppressive systems. Folks can be excited about the retheme, and that's valid, but how much of that is actually about YOU and nothing else?

Brer Rabbit is an intrinsic part of Black and Native identity, and is forever linked to the way Black and Native people are legally defined in the US--the one drop rule versus blood quantum, Indelible Blackness versus the Disappearing Indian. This is inescapable. The fact is, they used Black and Indigenous ORAL LITERATURE AND THEOLOGY and secret code of resistance for their Lost Cause movie. The used other people's religious and spiritual figures for a cheap theme park attraction they lot rot into the trouble. Disney has no problems with the Black artists and voice actors who worked on SOTS to take unjust and unwarranted flack, in fact the brunt of it, for their film. And most of all, they are not sorry. They threw Black and Indigenous people under the bus and they are not sorry.

Some of y'all are WAY TOO EAGER to applaud everything that they do and give them a pass, like they didn't just donate to you know what, let those cheerleaders dance down Main Street chanting slurs, mock the death of Bobby Driscoll, get in hot water over trying to whitewash Tiana in the second Wreck It Ralph, have had MULTIPLE complaints filed from POC guests about being targeted and followed around stores in WDW. It's the same company. Unfortunately, we are absolutely incapable of thinking critically and recognizing that more than one thing can be true at the same time.

They have not in any way rectified any of their mistakes. They have just rebranded them. They have done irreversible damage and they aren't sorry about it.
 

James.Green

Member
If some of you are so inclined, keep fighting for Splash Mountain. It’s not to late to save it. It’s not a racist ride. It’s based on African American Folk Tales. It’s the best ride at the parks.

Whatever Retheme they have planned can be easily changed to a brand new dark ride somewhere else on property. Somewhere that makes thematically sense and can give Tiana the land she deserves.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
If some of you are so inclined, keep fighting for Splash Mountain. It’s not to late to save it. It’s not a racist ride. It’s based on African American Folk Tales. It’s the best ride at the parks.

Whatever Retheme they have planned can be easily changed to a brand new dark ride somewhere else on property. Somewhere that makes thematically sense and can give Tiana the land she deserves.
I am not interested in saving Splash Mountain. I am not interested in anything Disney does or says. They do not deserve our benediction. They don't deserve our time, our energy or our money. They most certainly don't deserve our oral literature.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
I realize what other people think, that’s why I’m trying to educate people.

But I’m done with this. If Splash Mountain, the only ride in the parks based on African American Folk Characters, isn’t black enough for you and Disney, I don’t know what I can tell you.
I’m African American and am fairly up to date on these topics.😉 To confirm, I’m not advocating for Splash’s removal. I would prefer it to stay. I’m simply making sense of Disney’s decision.

Disney needs to be educated. Also, again, Splash is based on SotS, which is based on the Uncle Remus Tales, written by a white appropriator. When Walt Disney talked about being a kid and listening to the tales, he mentioned Joel Chandler Harris, not the slaves that told the stories, not the original African folklore tales, not the Caribbean tales. Again, this is important. They could fix this, but they don’t want to.

It’s all about optics and sales.
 

crazy4disney

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I would love to know ALL these people especially in this forum that have claimed they knew how "racist" Splash has been since the beginning and how problematic it was/is have ridden the ride? and how many have been this vocal before considering the ride has been around for over 3 decades? genuinely want to know how many of the folks out there screaming how "racist" this ride is have taken pics and bought merchandise and ride photos etc..... and then how many truly kept to their belief and never rode the ride based on their beliefs.... bc again you cant say you have an issue with something and yet still support it for 3 decades and when some "movement" if we can even call it that comes around and makes demands on billion dollar companies you follow suit like sheep....
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
I would love to know ALL these people especially in this forum that have claimed they knew how "racist" Splash has been since the beginning and how problematic it was/is have ridden the ride? and how many have been this vocal before considering the ride has been around for over 3 decades? genuinely want to know how many of the folks out there screaming how "racist" this ride is have taken pics and bought merchandise and ride photos etc..... and then how many truly kept to their belief and never rode the ride based on their beliefs.... bc again you cant say you have an issue with something and yet still support it for 3 decades and when some "movement" if we can even call it that comes around and makes demands on billion dollar companies you follow suit like sheep....
So far, I’ve only seen one or two people in these forums that have claimed Splash to be racist. Haven’t seen them post recently.
 

crazy4disney

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
So far, I’ve only seen one or two people in these forums that have claimed Splash to be racist. Haven’t seen them post recently.
so them you agree this ride really doesnt need to go and Tiana should get her own land/attraction... what i find somewhat comical is that before this "fake online outrage" has Tiana ever been even mentioned as a legit ride/attraction option? If so was Splash it? either way build something NEW and give the park some more capacity heck put her in HS where they need more rides or add her to MK not retheme a ride which literally attracts so many guests still even in it run down disgraceful shape
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
So far, I’ve only seen one or two people in these forums that have claimed Splash to be racist. Haven’t seen them post recently.
This has also been one of my issues with this whole thing--people who have no business quantifying ANYTHING related to this straight up INVENTING ish about this ride. There is enough there without having to INVENT things. And the problem with people whose business it most certainly isn't inventing things and talking over the people whom this DOES effect is that it's going to look like crying wolf and no one is ever going to listen to US ever again. All because someone wanted to use BIPOC pain for their own clout.
 

michmousefan

Well-Known Member
Hahahahaha!!! Oh yeah, the PATF merch will be flying off the shelves! Just like in 2009 when this blockbuster came out! The PATF toys were the must have items that Christmas!

And OMG how they can't keep up with the PATF merch demand in every resort around the world!

It's fun to make believe!
All they need to do is come out with a limited-edition Louis popcorn bucket, and they will be fine with their revenue projections for merch.
 

Mr. Moderate

Well-Known Member
If some of you are so inclined, keep fighting for Splash Mountain. It’s not to late to save it. It’s not a racist ride. It’s based on African American Folk Tales. It’s the best ride at the parks.

Whatever Retheme they have planned can be easily changed to a brand new dark ride somewhere else on property. Somewhere that makes thematically sense and can give Tiana the land she deserves.
I've ben saying this for a longtime now to no avail. Just fix Splash slightly to remove certain things that some find offensive, but keep the spirt of the ride intact and leave it alone. Give Tiana her own land and at least two rides of her own, a neat restaurant to eat inspired by the movie, thus celebrating the film and what it stood for. This would be a solution that could work for everyone.
 

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