News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
@BrerCountry I do not understand why people are having such a hard time understanding what you mean. You actually live in the area where this new setting is supposed to take place. That's it. That's all there is to it. It's not up for debate.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I do think Princess and the Frog is pushing it, but you already had the weird incongruity of pre-Civil War Tom Sawyer Island set against the Reconstruction era of Splash Mountain.

The Rivers of America flows through the 1800s in that part of the park. Reconstruction fits within that. The same way Main Street USA is a crossroads of time divided by Center Street



The Princess and The Frog is in the 1920s. The movie has scenes with automobiles. It is a more recent time period than Main Street USA
 
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James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
To also be pedantic, the automobile is an invention of the 1800s. But to be clear, I generally agree that it’s a bit too far in the future, though I think they can avoid any indication of that by simply not including explicitly 20th century details. It’s set in the bayou on a boat, after all. I do wish they had picked something that was at least pre-Great War, though.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
To also be pedantic, the automobile is an invention of the 1800s. But to be clear, I generally agree that it’s a bit too far in the future, though I think they can avoid any indication of that by simply not including explicitly 20th century details. It’s set in the bayou on a boat, after all. I do wish they had picked something that was at least pre-Great War, though.

Yeah, I definitely meant the fact that automobiles are a fairly popular consumer item down to the opening scene and other clear refrences that Princess and The Frog takes place during the 1920s, to where motor vehicles are even pulling parade floats. The truth is parts of Imagineering are really bad at it, leaders don't care because they want a property shoved in that makes them money, and a mix of both.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, but aren’t most of the bears Southern? Other than “The Ballad of Davy Crockett”, I can’t think of any song in the show that has a frontier feel or theme to it.

Read the plaque for Frontierland and what the concept of Frontier is. It is not just "Western" It is Wilderness from the East to the West. The entire Grizzly hall look is a concept that mirrors the playhouses that tribute the frontier spirit of America.
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BrerCountry

Well-Known Member
New Orleans in a sense has it's own very unique culture, between it's music, celebrations, style, etc. It is distinctly Nola. Showboat Jubilee was a neat concept, but It was out of place in Frontierland/Liberty Square. (Yet, worked perfectly in NOS.)

It is common for Country and "western" to blend, despite them not being the same exact thing. Doesn't mean it's thematically correct. But they can work without detracting too much. It's always kind of shocked me how many people think Splash in WDW takes place in Georgia/the deep south.

But eh, new theme is PATF. Now, to see how the attraction itself will turn out. I personally think DL's should be completed first before they go ahead with Florida's. I think that would be easier for them.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Read the plaque for Frontierland and what the concept of Frontier is. It is not just "Western" It is Wilderness from the East to the West. The entire Grizzly hall look is a concept that mirrors the playhouses that tribute the frontier spirit of America.
View attachment 582907
OK, but the bears themselves are twentieth-century Southerners (some from Florida itself) singing about things that have nothing to do with the period or themes evoked by the plaque.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
OK, but the bears themselves are twentieth-century Southerners (some from Florida itself) singing about things that have nothing to do with the period or themes evoked by the plaque.

I would read that plaque again. I would say Old Slew Foot, Davy Crockett and others have a lot do do with that. Someone being fron Florida in show show does not change that the show can still have the theme of a tribute to the frontier. Again, the western thing is a common misconception for frontier. It is largely thought of frontier thanks to Western cinema and the west itself being the most famous, but the concept of an American frontier and Frontierland itself is not strictly or uniquely western. It is more time period than place and how people dealt with wilderness. Such as the Mississippi. The Country Bears is explicitly presented as a tribute to the wilderness and tribute to the American Frontier spirit. It is meta humored, as is The Tiki Room, but still a revue that fits the spirit and theme that is Frontierland.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
It’s worth noting that WDW’s own website describes the setting as “a Southern bayou”.


I don't know if that is the best source. The descriptions of the WDW's official website have been notoriously off or odd over the years. Maelstrom's description used to say "Back into the days of pirates." Vikings are pirates of sorts, but that is kind of an odd descriptor.

Either way. A southern bayou of in the 1800s would still be a Frontier described in the dedication for the first century of the USA.

The film Princess and the Frog being in 1920s New Orleans, not in the spirit of anything on the Frontierland dedication concept. The Riverboat for example, was invented and departed New Orleans in 1815. That is the loosest connection and even that is over 100 years off from the Americana where Princess and The Frog takes place.
 

BrerCountry

Well-Known Member
It’s worth noting that WDW’s own website describes the setting as “a colorful Southern bayou”.

They often share the descriptions between the DL and WDW duplicates of attractions. I remember back when they had the little preview videos. They had the same description there.

It's more of a country forest in Florida. Disneyland's uses long draping leaves to simulate Cypress like trees, while WDW's has more oak leaks along the ceiling. (Well sans the one scene with the frog fishing with the gator).

HOWEVER. it is fair enough to say the average guest may miss the subtle cues.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
As someone who loves the show and watches it multiple times during any visit, I don’t agree. Most of the songs are about love, very comically dealt with.

And that is ok. You can feel that way all you want.
The explicit evidence in the opening lines of the show from Henry, the host in the time period hat and later Raccoon Skin cap, do a good job setting up that the show is a tribute revue to those things though:
HENRY
Howdy folks! Welcome to the one and only, original, Country Bear Jamboree — featuring a bit of Americana, our musical heritage of the past. And right now, I give you a sordid assortment of executioners of music and song. The Five Bear Rugs… Hit it boys!
 

tanc

Premium Member
I think it will be a bit hilarious if this backfires on Disney, since it seems so far Japan has exclusivity that WDW or DL won't have. Just wait until people realize they can experience the original attraction in some sort of way.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
I think it will be a bit hilarious if this backfires on Disney, since it seems so far Japan has exclusivity that WDW or DL won't have. Just wait until people realize they can experience the original attraction in some sort of way.
The average guest doesn’t care in the first place, and the guest who cares enough to go to Tokyo instead for a single attraction is probably one in multiple millions.
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
I think it will be a bit hilarious if this backfires on Disney, since it seems so far Japan has exclusivity that WDW or DL won't have. Just wait until people realize they can experience the original attraction in some sort of way.
Japan is a different country, with a different past. Their population does not have the same connection to African-American history. I understand why they don't want to re-theme their attraction. Not saying it's right...since the same underlying issues remain.

WDW/DLR guests, for the most part, are not considering Japan as an alternative for their trip.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Japan is a different country, with a different past. Their population does not have the same connection to African-American history. I understand why they don't want to re-theme their attraction. Not saying it's right...since the same underlying issues remain.

WDW/DLR guests, for the most part, are not considering Japan as an alternative for their trip.

You seem to be giving the company too much credit rather than this being a change to a popular intellectual property move.

They are fine with operating(and at WDW bringing back) the railroads around the theme parks, and that culturally can be argued that is horrible thing to tribute the advent of the railroad. Chinese slaves among others were a large part of that creation.
 

Roger_the_pianist

Active Member
If Song of the South and Country Bears can exist in frontierland, so can Tiana. Geez. Don't Woody and Jessie appear in Frontierland? Wasn't Woody's Roundup rumored to replace Country Bears?

Anybody arguing so heavily against Tiana fitting in to Frontierland just doesn't want her represented there in the first place. Her setting makes more sense in Critter Country or Frontierlnd than euro-centric Fantasyland.

Don't river boats feature prominently in Tiana's movie? Her restaurant looks like a steamboat. I think this will be beautiful with PatF Splash with the riverboats gliding by. There are no river boats in Song of the South, but obviously one added in Splash.

Sure it's the Rivers of America but it's pretty much the Mississippi which of course is in New Orleans and you have the Tom Sawyer Island connection as well. Song of the South has no river setting. Maybe there's a creek in some scenes.

Tiana makes more sense than the Br'ers on many many levels. If you're still arguing that she doesn't fit in you have your own problems with the project.

I think this is going to be beautiful, honestly.
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
You seem to be giving the company too much credit rather than this being a change to a popular intellectual property move.

They are fine with operating(and at WDW bringing back) the railroads around the theme parks, and that culturally can be argued that is horrible thing to tribute the advent of the railroad. Chinese slaves among others were a large part of that creation.
I don't know if PatF is currently more popular, but it has a brighter future.

I don't know if trains, especially the MK train, have the same connotation. You are absolutely correct about some of rail history in the US. Nothing about history is perfect, and most of world history has winners and losers. We pick our champions and our demons.
 

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