News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - attraction discussion only

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
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Its off limits. It was once culturally problematic, and cannot be changed or redeemed.
I don't follow. Western River Expedition was never built, so any version that's created now would not have any history in the parks. They could have cowboys attacking other cowboys, nothing in the form of banditos or any other potentially insensitive "villain".
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
I don't follow. Western River Expedition was never built, so any version that's created now would not have any history in the parks. They could have cowboys attacking other cowboys, nothing in the form of banditos or any other potentially insensitive "villain".
I’m talking about the plans.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
@Brer Oswald I agree, of course! Was only speaking to the historical facts in response to the point that it was problematic. I think it would be insane not to include Indians in a ride about the west. Just make it less "goofy drunk Injuns" and more just "white settlers and natives duking it out." More passive, realistic observation than intentional story-telling when you're dealing with a real-world issue.
Marc Davis had already worked that out and replaced the potentially offensive scenes. WRE is basically ready for WDI to pick up and build an incredible attraction. And they won’t do it.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I posted this in a different thread and thought it was worth adding here.

The relatively small group of pro-change fans might regret the rush job they initiated within the current state of the WDC. Hope the DL faithful enjoy cutbacks, screens, and the cheap projection-face AAs. This could change, but it’s the direction I’m hearing about right now. And frankly, I would love to be wrong about this. If DL’s Splash is going to change, I want it to be better than this.

I’ve heard two examples:
(1) Think Epcot’s Frozen, which works on the small scale of Maelstrom but would be conspicuously insufficient within the Splash show building. *shrug*
(2) Look at the gut job on the GMR and the vast spaces of flats and projections in MRR *oh no*
 

TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking Disney needs to defecate or get off the pot. If they don't want me to associate this attraction with The Song of the South, maybe they shouldn't play the titular song in the restrooms of the attraction.🙄
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking Disney needs to defecate or get off the pot. If they don't want me to associate this attraction with The Song of the South, maybe they shouldn't play the titular song in the restrooms of the attraction.🙄
I’m going to tread lightly because I know this thread is for attraction discussion only, and I already said my opinion in the proper political thread.

A big part of the perceived problem is that Disney locked away the movie in North America instead of putting it on the Treasures series or licensing it to Criterion. Disney allowed the movie’s reputation to grow like a playground rumor that seems enormous until the kids realize it’s no big deal.

Now the movie’s reputation is out of control; and if people actually saw the movie, they’d realize that (1) yes, it awkwardly reflects the time in which it was made, (2) it’s problematic but almost innocent compared to movies which are freely available, (3) the music and animation are wonderful, (4) the live-action is so melodramatic and corny that nobody would care about the movie if Disney hadn’t created the hype.

If SOTS had been available on DVD and Blu-Ray for years, kids would be bored stiff and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It would be a B-tier title like “The Happiest Millionaire” or “Darby O’Gill and the Little People.” By trying to hide its past to maintain Magical Magical Marketing Land instead of just acknowledging it’s a movie studio with films that reflect nearly 100 years of society, Disney will always have problems with their library.
 
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TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
I’m going to tread lightly because I know this thread is for attraction discussion only, and I already said my opinion in the proper political thread.

A big part of the perceived problem is that Disney locked away the movie in North America instead of putting it on the Treasures series or licensing it to Criterion. Disney allowed the movie’s reputation to grow like a playground rumor that seems enormous until the kids realize it’s no big deal.

Now the movie’s reputation is out of control; and if people actually saw the movie, they’d realize that (1) yes, it awkwardly reflects the time in which it was made, (2) it’s problematic but almost innocent compared to movies which are freely available, (3) the music and animation are wonderful, (4) the live-action is so melodramatic and corny that nobody would care about the movie if Disney hadn’t created the hype.
Well, I've seen the movie multiple times. I have a copy. I don't know that I can call the music "wonderful" with a line like:
This heart of mine is in the heart of Dixie;
That's where I belong.

That's a little rough for me.
 
Marc Davis had already worked that out and replaced the potentially offensive scenes. WRE is basically ready for WDI to pick up and build an incredible attraction. And they won’t do it.

yes, I know! I was replying to a comment that was replying to me, saying that very thing!

It's not the kind of ride Disney makes anymore: It's not based on a market-tested IP, all physical props and effects, and it expects its audience to actually engage with it.

I think if we want to further discuss WRE we should spin it off to a different thread; I'm sure people could discuss it for hours. I do think it would make a fine inspiration for a new Splash Mountain.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
Well, I've seen the movie multiple times. I have a copy. I don't know that I can call the music "wonderful" with a line like:
This heart of mine is in the heart of Dixie;
That's where I belong.

That's a little rough for me.
Yes, let’s forget about Zipadeedoodah, Everybody’s Got a Laughing Place, How Do You Do, That’s What Uncle Remus Said, Who Wants to Live Like That, And All I Want. The least memorable song has a line that you might take the wrong way (keep in mind itvwas written 70 years ago), so we might as well scrap the Academy Award Winning Song And the other gems.

I seriously had to look it up. I had never heard that line before. No wonder because I typically only listen to the instrumental.
 

TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
Yes, let’s forget about Zipadeedoodah, Everybody’s Got a Laughing Place, How Do You Do, That’s What Uncle Remus Said, Who Wants to Live Like That, And All I Want. The least memorable song has a line that you might take the wrong way (keep in mind itvwas written 70 years ago), so we might as well scrap the Academy Award Winning Song And the other gems.

I seriously had to look it up. I had never heard that line before. No wonder because I typically only listen to the instrumental.
Please note I was specifically referencing the titular song as the one I thought Disney should remove. I wasn't knocking the others.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Original Poster
As a reminder

The original announcement of the Splash Mountain to Princess and the Frog thread is now available in the 'Politics and Social Issues' forum at https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/splash-mountain-re-theme-announced.965846/unread

In the absence of many specific details on the project and due to its polarizing nature, the original thread is mostly a political/social debate, which is best served in the Politics/Social section of the forum. In its original location in News & Rumors it became impossible to moderate within the no-political discussion rule that we have in place (see Terms and rules).

This thread will serve as the ongoing thread for discussion of the attraction retheme. ANY political/social commentary in this thread will be deleted and the poster will be banned from taking any further part.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Well, I've seen the movie multiple times. I have a copy. I don't know that I can call the music "wonderful" with a line like:
This heart of mine is in the heart of Dixie;
That's where I belong.

That's a little rough for me.
I'm not disagreeing with your perception of the line, but I think there are far more offensive components of the movie than that. The movie has many cringe worthy elements that would never fly today. However, it's hard to argue that those cringe worthy elements were intended to be hurtful to anyone. Ignorance isn't an excuse, but it's absolutely something that you can learn from. Perhaps it's my own ignorance but it wasn't until recently that I became aware of songs about Dixie, Dixieland etc being offensive. I also know that a significant percentage of people in this country are far more ignorant to this fact than you or me. Those same people can see other components of Song of the South and say unequivocally, "oh, that's why Disney isn't releasing this".

Back to the Princess and the Frog re-theme. I've said from the outset that if they do this it's not something they can do halfway. People will see right through the optics of a "cheap overlay" to get the first black Princess into a ride. Thematic fit aside, if you're going to do this it needs a proper budget and proper execution. They have an exceptionally well paced ride with plenty of space to tell an appropriate story. If 50+ animatronics are replaced exclusively with screens then I will absolutely take issue with it.
 

britain

Well-Known Member
If WRE is going to happen at all, I can only see it with anthropomorphic animals as the western characters, Rango-style (suggested by @przidentkendall). It fills the “cute critters” niche that Splash currently fills. Then you can re-use all the foxes, cranes, frogs, etc.

Especially if it’s hinging on OLC’s say-so and that’s Japan we’re talking about! The land of Duffy the Disney Bear! I can't see the OLC being remotely interested in the Pirate-esque / World of Motion-style original WRE.
 
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